STI's and social responsibilty.

[kristopin]

education information

hi all
let me give you a bit of self background
im 58, white, married 30 yrs, not in the sex industry.
i am very new to the tgirl scene in toronto. say 3 months.

one of the most important features of this site is the information and education if you will, that i can get from here. the discussion are frank and friendly.
since i havent been very active sexually for 30 yrs, i find that i am ignorant of most STD's and how they can be transmitted., therefore i think more education is one of the keys. we teach our kids sex ed in school but probably fail in that dept for ourselves. the more informed we are then the more we can 'self' regulate. as i told a friend recently there will always be people that just dont care except for themselves and will cheat any system that is put in place, they will lie to get what irregardless of consequences.

i am not the most educated here, having graduated from college so many yrs ago, but i do like having the ability to offer my thoughts here.
being an old hippy and having been part of the 'counter-culture', i find that personal freedom means that we have the ability to make decisions and have the responsability to accept the consequences of our actons. the more informed we are then we should be able to make better decisions.

darn thats a little heavy for this time of morning.

cheers all

[Rantsalot]

I don't want to be the jester anymore.

What more can be said that hasn't been mentioned previously and presently?

- Provisioning of educational and monetary assistance
- Developing strategies for reduction of abuse of these provisions
- Preventive health measures.

etc.

I would like to take a very serious stance here as I sometimes feel that my opinion is taken lightly if at all and would like to share something incredibly dear.

HIV is classified in 2 categories, HIV 1 and HIV 2. HIV 1 is the global prevalent infection with high transmitability and HIV 2 is more predominant in West Africa. Each of course is given from one person to another in ways we are all familiar with. Since the "official" inception as a "legit" infection in 1981 it's estimated that 25 million people have perished from infection.

With this basic knowledge given to the public and by those in the medical field you would think that perhaps there would be a decrease in deaths yet here we are discussing this topic of social responsibility.

Why?

Yes , it is important to talk about such things and make claims and debate and procure a list that goes on ad infinitum that provides answers, solutions and/or opinions on this and other categories/sub categories but truth be told social responsibility comes within one self.

It is up to the individual to come forth and decide what they wish to share and not share and as much as that is not a favorable answer by most it is what it comes down too. Also, in stating that people should "adhere" to certain legislative measures or actions just sounds so ludicrous. What is life then if not to live it the way you are comfortable with? This then goes into another category of morals and ethics which in turn goes deeper than what we are typing here.

Take into consideration who is writing this and where this is being written. A Canadian, European male, young age...etc. What if this was elsewhere say in Ghana? How would this be perceived?

Others may think this it as an ideological perception where as others may say this is a saving grace.

The point? There is no clear cut answer and never truly will be.

If you have a hot passionate time with many people then all power to you and of course its up to you to protect yourself and others and have fun as how you and they see fit but I state this.

Do to me as I would do to you



Cheesy? Perhaps. Boring? Maybe. Important? Most definitely.



Take that any way you like but living life by this alone can garner you a lifetime of pleasure in every aspect.

[Foxy Basket]

Proposed solutions

So, as I read it, we've had a number of suggestions on how the government can approach the HIV problem. I'll list the ones we're mentioned so far:

1) Isolation of all HIV+ individuals
2) Regulation and localization of the sex industry (with mandated testing)
3) Incarceration of street-involved sex workers
4) A publicly-available list of HIV+ individuals
5) Increased funding towards HIV education and safer-sex techniques

Anything you'd like to add to the list? Feel free - the more options we have to discuss, the richer our discussion will be.

Once we've settled on the list of possibilities, we can go over the pros and cons of each option, and see what we find - it should make for a lively and interesting exercise.

[Foxy Basket]

Parameters of Discussion

Ok, I've been giving it a lot of thought, and doing my research (to the detriment of my schoolwork, unfortunately) and I'm making progress. However, someone could easily write an essay, term paper, or an entire book about this topic; therefore, I think we need to establish the limits of our discussion.

First off, I suggest that we limit ourselves to the sex industry, while trying not to make generalizations about sexual behaviour in society. This will be hard to do, and I'm not expecting to stay within the confines I've suggested, but I would prefer if our focus remained on the sex trade wherever possible. This is mostly for practical reasons; many of us are involved in the industry in one capacity or another, so it makes sense to stick to what we know.

Second, we need to back up our statements with sources wherever possible, preferably links to formal studies on HIV. And please, please, PLEASE, if you're going to cite a statistic, make sure you've got it right - we'll be checking up on everything, because there's no room for misconceptions, generalizations, or hearsay evidence. We need cold, hard facts if we're going to come to any solid conclusions.

Third, there's no reason why this can't be a civil discussion. If you take issue with someone's argument, then by all means, say so - but limit your criticism to the argument, and don't personalize it. Personal attacks destroy your own credibility, as well as distract from the focus of the discussion. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but that doesn't mean everyone's opinion is right. If you think it's wrong, say so - but also say why it's wrong, and propose an alternative viewpoint. Above all else, if your argument is attacked, don't take it as an attack on your character - and don't respond with an attack on the person who criticized your argument.

I think we've established some reasonable rules and limitations; let's see where it goes. I'll start things off in my next post.

[tslisaparadise]

Lisa would you be opposed to say using the Cherry beach area as a new orleans style red light area? do you think that this could also be financially beneficial to the city i.e. tourists?

i just think sex needs to be in the privacy of your own home not out on the street where are kids can see it.look at it this way if anyone needs to be begging off the streets its time for a career change dontcha think?

[kristopin]

why not like new orleans

not likely there will never and i mean never be red light districts in canada period,any hooker that walks the streets should be in jail not on the streets.

Lisa would you be opposed to say using the Cherry beach area as a new orleans style red light area? do you think that this could also be financially beneficial to the city i.e. tourists?

[tslisaparadise]

thanks both i look forward to the continuation of this thread. this is such a huge undertaking.i think it would be marvelous to see some thoughtful undertaking to find possible means, methods that could find some sort of resolution that could be offered to people or governments come out of this.

if we had red light districts then perhaps more information and safer sex practices could ensue. however with every thing we do there will always be people that will cheat a system to grab a few bucks. a little jaded i know.

Toban i agree with you that self policing will not work because of the reasons you stated before, but also because there is still so much stigma attached to STI's, if you have somethng you must be someone of low morale character etc. i dont agree with that but it seems to be the way STI's are regarded.

perhaps if more people get into this thread and offer opinions or links to informative sites then we can have a serious conversation.

cheers

not likely there will never and i mean never be red light districts in canada period,any hooker that walks the streets should be in jail not on the streets.

[kristopin]

thx toban and nikki

thanks both i look forward to the continuation of this thread. this is such a huge undertaking.i think it would be marvelous to see some thoughtful undertaking to find possible means, methods that could find some sort of resolution that could be offered to people or governments come out of this.

if we had red light districts then perhaps more information and safer sex practices could ensue. however with every thing we do there will always be people that will cheat a system to grab a few bucks. a little jaded i know.

Toban i agree with you that self policing will not work because of the reasons you stated before, but also because there is still so much stigma attached to STI's, if you have somethng you must be someone of low morale character etc. i dont agree with that but it seems to be the way STI's are regarded.

perhaps if more people get into this thread and offer opinions or links to informative sites then we can have a serious conversation.

cheers

[toban]

Now that sounds like a plan!

Thank you for the excellent response Nikki.

I felt certain Nikki, that you were one who could be counted on to make a valid contribution to the thread, so I for one, will be waiting to see what you come up with!

I hope that others too will have some reasoned responses to your questions.

In a matter so serious, and so important to all of us here, this is no time for unthinking, "shoot from the hip" responses!

............. In the meantime, I propose a starting point for this discussion that focuses on practical means for slowing and stopping the spread of HIV. I accept that government involvement is necessary to the elimination of this epidemic, but like yourself, I don't have the answers to this problem. Many people believe that government involvement in the sex trade will have an effect on HIV rates, so let's use that as a starting point.

WHAT CAN THE GOVERNMENT DO TO SLOW OR STOP HIV TRANSMISSION IN THE SEX INDUSTRY?

HOW WOULD THESE MEASURES AFFECT SAFER-SEX PRACTICES, ON THE PART OF CLIENTS AND SP'S ALIKE?

It might take me a few days to develop a proper response, but these two questions would give us a specific issue to discuss, and perhaps, through our discourse, we will find a way to improve health and safety for everyone.

[merelypink]

well written post

[Foxy Basket]

Toban:

I appreciate that you've taken the time to create this thread, and you've brought up a number of interesting points. You also ask a number of questions that deserve a great deal of thought, and your well-constructed post deserves a well-constructed response. I want to give your post the attention it deserves, which will require a lot of research for proper citations, so your patience is appreciated while I create a proper rebuttal.

In the meantime, I propose a starting point for this discussion that focuses on practical means for slowing and stopping the spread of HIV. I accept that government involvement is necessary to the elimination of this epidemic, but like yourself, I don't have the answers to this problem. Many people believe that government involvement in the sex trade will have an effect on HIV rates, so let's use that as a starting point.

WHAT CAN THE GOVERNMENT DO TO SLOW OR STOP HIV TRANSMISSION IN THE SEX INDUSTRY?

HOW WOULD THESE MEASURES AFFECT SAFER-SEX PRACTICES, ON THE PART OF CLIENTS AND SP'S ALIKE?

It might take me a few days to develop a proper response, but these two questions would give us a specific issue to discuss, and perhaps, through our discourse, we will find a way to improve health and safety for everyone.

[toban]

I am prety sceptical about the merits of self-policing!

Yes Admin I believe you are right, BUT currently nothing much beyond the warning lecture you mention is done about those on the lists. I believe such lists are almost universal in developed countries.

Those who act responsibly will not be a problem because they care about others. There are always some though who are not responsible and for those types, the threat of doing something illegal is not really a great deterrance. Nor is that threat a significant deterrance to someone who needs a roof overhead and a meal, or someone who desperately needs a "fix".

Yes, I am prety sceptical about the merits of self-policing!

My understanding is,
If someone test positive for HIV, Hepatitis or any type of water borne parasite or illness, the doctor by law has to report them to the Public Health office.
The Public Health Authority then has a list of HIV and Hepatitis carriers.
They contact the infected and tell them there options and try to get the names of everyone they have had sex with. Also they warn these people that it is illegal to have unprotected sex without telling their partner about their status. This conversation is proof that the person knows they are infected.

Not sure if this is all jurisdictions but I think so.
So there is a list, it just isn't publically available.

[Admin]

My understanding is,
If someone test positive for HIV, Hepatitis or any type of water borne parasite or illness, the doctor by law has to report them to the Public Health office.
The Public Health Authority then has a list of HIV and Hepatitis carriers.
They contact the infected and tell them there options and try to get the names of everyone they have had sex with. Also they warn these people that it is illegal to have unprotected sex without telling their partner about their status. This conversation is proof that the person knows they are infected.

Not sure if this is all jurisdictions but I think so.
So there is a list, it just isn't publically available.

[toban]

Permit me to argue my point!

the stuff you gave on tb is irrelevant seeing as it is a contagious disease as opposed to a sexually transmitted one.

I accept the intent of your reply BUT, your understanding of "contagious" is not correct. Contagious means: Communicable by contact.

You meant, I am sure, that TB is transmissable by other than direct contact BUT at one time {and not too long ago, even though STI?s, which of course require direct contact for transmission, person's with STI's, and any of their known contacts, were tracked down by health authorities and dealt with as I pointed out.

........ the only way you could see a decline in sti's is if both parties involved are responsible. by that i mean it is the infected person's responsibility to let others know (ie. who they're fucking) so that the other person can make their own decision on whether they want to take the risk of being infected. ??

But is not the principal problem we face, that not everyone IS responsible, so not every infected person is going to take that responsibility, you suggest they should, therefore you may be fooled (tricked actually) into suspecting that they are, and have been, responsible.

?. but honestly, if you have something, you shouldnt be in the business, thats just extremely selfish. and it is then up to the other person to decide whether or not to take the risk, and if they do, to be as safe as possible. but if you play with fire, eventually you get burned.

Yes, as I pointed out before, such individuals are totally selfish and care NOTHING about their partners health. They remove from their clients the ability to make informed decisions! The client is deceived!

Of course this also works in reverse too, and I accept that any client is also capable of deceiving the escort/provider or others. And also, what about the recently infected person who is not yet aware of their infection??

?. the only way you could see a decline in sti's is if both parties involved are responsible.

But tgirllover13, this where the whole thing breaks down.

Unfortunately, as you and I know, not all people can be regarded as either honest or responsible. This is where I suspect that any effort to control this is going to suffer a lack success. This is where, because of human frailty, some outside authority must assist in the clean-up.

Once again I have to admit that I have no idea of what the solution is, but until a pharmaceutical solution is found, this problem is NOT going to go away.

As things now stand, our so called "civil rights" and the Charter of Rights and Freedom are both barriers to the provision of resolution.

My Sunday Sermon has now ended and I thank you for your attendance!

[tgirllover13]

the stuff you gave on tb is irrelevant seeing as it is a contagious disease as opposed to a sexually transmitted one. the only way you could see a decline in sti's is if both parties involved are responsible. by that i mean it is the infected person's responsibility to let others know (ie. who they're fucking) so that the other person can make their own decision on whether they want to take the risk of being infected. but honestly, if you have something, you shouldnt be in the business, thats just extremely selfish. and it is then up to the other person to decide whether or not to take the risk, and if they do, to be as safe as possible. but if you play with fire, eventually you get burned.