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  • Transgender rights

    http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-med...sgender-rights

  • #2
    Well unfortunately Transgender rights are not Black and white.
    If you are black you are black, if you are female you are female.
    If you are gay, well who really knows, but this doesn't change your gender.

    If you are TG what does that mean? How do you expect anyone else to know what that means.
    Often it is different and personal to each person. Then now days people are claiming to have no gender, what does this even mean? They don't' have sex or need washrooms?

    Some could say Gay marriage is great for TGs but many say they are not Gay.
    So are some TG's gay and some not? Is it fair that anyone can just self declare anything in regards to their gender and then expect everyone to just accept it or else?

    As far as fair access there needs to be laws and guidelines about this.
    People cannot just suddenly dress as the opposite sex whenever and expect people to accept it immediately.
    In the end it will probably have to boil down to when you get your ID changed to the opposite sex.

    Things like washroom issues I see TGs demanding rights but not necessarily offering any solutions.
    Options are offered like gender neutral washrooms but often this is not good enough.
    The fact is TG people are consciously making the choice to change and you are forcing your change on others.
    I think it would work better to be more flexible and find solutions rather than "my way or else". If you want to be accepted in society you have to compromise a little to fit everyone in. You cannot only ask for YOUR rights and not consider anyone else's.

    In the end many people are being put in a terrible situation by the personal decisions of others.
    Sure there are bigots out there but the majority is trying to understand and accomodate.
    I'm not sure the opposite is true most of the time.

    If a transgender gets beat up it is ALWAYS a hate crime.
    If I get beat up it is still a crime, just not a hate crime.
    However if I claim to be Gay or TG, is it suddenly a hate crime?
    Things like this just don't seem fair.

    If I can just declare being TG or Gay anytime I feel like it, is this fair to others?

    There is thousand year old traditions of Women and men having separate facilities.
    Not all of it is due to Male dominance, some of it is because we are naturally inclined this way.
    Norms, traditions and human traits don't just change in a couple years, some patience is required.

    Things like Caitlynn Jenner deciding to keep her penis because she likes girls, doesn't make sense to a lot of people if you are claiming to be a woman inside of your male body. How can any of it make sense when there is no guidelines, and when is it sexual and just a disorder? Who knows.

    theladyboyforums.com
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    tgirlasian.com

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    • #3
      I enjoyed the video Ray some very humorous and enlightened comments

      I do agree with Crag on some points that there has to be a balancing of rights and the "transgender" tag can be confusing to a lot of people as so many variations cram themselves under this umbrella term ie. agendered, gender fluid, transvestites, etc.
      Gender neutral washrooms are a good solution in some settings but doesn't work everywhere ie fitness change & showers rooms. I don't think that every CD or TV that is out for a night of "feminine" fun should be waltzing into the female washrooms and that a female ID does show who is in serious transition and who is just out "dressed up".
      As for those like Caitlyn and others who say they are keeping their penises because they are hetro I'm like "Huh!! WTF your just playing elaborate dress up and living out some kind of fantasy!" But good luck on that as women who love women want one with a vagina other than that it's all fetish fantasy sex hook ups. There are those who are trying to rewrite gender distinctions totally saying no feminization is necessary just go out in your beard, talk in your baritone voice and throw on a dress if you like but demand to be called she,her, miss, mam .
      I think anyone who has no end goal of SRS is along the same lines being attached to the most male part of their anatomy but insisting everyone take them seriously as a woman. Getting there takes time, money and other aspects of one's transition to be completed first but for trans women this is the end goal. Many others under the "transgender" umbrella do not have this as an end goal as they are not really conflicted over their male gender they just want the freedom to be feminine on occasion.
      *F*A*N*T*A*SA*

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      • #4
        uhhh ya..

        Originally posted by TSFantasia View Post
        I enjoyed the video Ray some very humorous and enlightened comments

        I do agree with Crag on some points that there has to be a balancing of rights and the "transgender" tag can be confusing to a lot of people as so many variations cram themselves under this umbrella term ie. agendered, gender fluid, transvestites, etc.
        Gender neutral washrooms are a good solution in some settings but doesn't work everywhere ie fitness change & showers rooms. I don't think that every CD or TV that is out for a night of "feminine" fun should be waltzing into the female washrooms and that a female ID does show who is in serious transition and who is just out "dressed up".
        As for those like Caitlyn and others who say they are keeping their penises because they are hetro I'm like "Huh!! WTF your just playing elaborate dress up and living out some kind of fantasy!" But good luck on that as women who love women want one with a vagina other than that it's all fetish fantasy sex hook ups. There are those who are trying to rewrite gender distinctions totally saying no feminization is necessary just go out in your beard, talk in your baritone voice and throw on a dress if you like but demand to be called she,her, miss, mam .
        I think anyone who has no end goal of SRS is along the same lines being attached to the most male part of their anatomy but insisting everyone take them seriously as a woman. Getting there takes time, money and other aspects of one's transition to be completed first but for trans women this is the end goal. Many others under the "transgender" umbrella do not have this as an end goal as they are not really conflicted over their male gender they just want the freedom to be feminine on occasion.
        I think you're really generalizing there.. One doesn't need to go get a fake pussy that doesn't do the same things as a real one just to validate one's femininity.. Also there's a whole lot of TG people out there that are in relationships of all kinds not just with men.. And a lot of women that are into girls that have a cock for more than just sex.. I'm certainly not hetro.. I like both but prefer someone feminine/female for a relationship..

        Thankfully my female ID, birth certificate and passport validate most of societies ethical requirements..

        Personally bottom surgery is not an option for me cuz it scares the shit out of me! 50% of the people I know are unhappy with the result, 50% have to go back for more surgery, 50% can't achieve orgasm.. etc etc.. Too much risk there for me..

        And what about the other side of the coin too.. the FTM tg's.. Should they be required to get bottom surgery to get self validation privileges? Most of the ones I know behave like gay men and like cock.. some like big tranny cock too.. only a small percentage go for girls..

        One must taker a broader view of equality to expect equality.. step out of the box and into the shipping container..

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        • #5
          Originally posted by AlexisDVyne View Post
          I think you're really generalizing there.. One doesn't need to go get a fake pussy that doesn't do the same things as a real one just to validate one's femininity.. Also there's a whole lot of TG people out there that are in relationships of all kinds not just with men.. And a lot of women that are into girls that have a cock for more than just sex.. I'm certainly not hetro.. I like both but prefer someone feminine/female for a relationship..

          Thankfully my female ID, birth certificate and passport validate most of societies ethical requirements..

          Personally bottom surgery is not an option for me cuz it scares the shit out of me! 50% of the people I know are unhappy with the result, 50% have to go back for more surgery, 50% can't achieve orgasm.. etc etc.. Too much risk there for me..

          And what about the other side of the coin too.. the FTM tg's.. Should they be required to get bottom surgery to get self validation privileges? Most of the ones I know behave like gay men and like cock.. some like big tranny cock too.. only a small percentage go for girls..

          One must taker a broader view of equality to expect equality.. step out of the box and into the shipping container..
          Well I wouldn't expect anyone who has built a successful, lucrative t-girl escort or porn career to be in any hurry to cut off the head of the goose that lays the golden eggs

          However, for t-girls who take HRT, get breast implants, FFS, etc to say that completing their transition is too scary and risky is kind of contradictory as all these all procedures have their own risks involved. Also an SRS pussy is the most "real" female part a trans woman can have as implants are "fake" silicone and foreign materials. The srs pussy simple takes the skin, tissues, and nerve endings of the male genitalia remolds them into a vagina that does the same things for me I can pee, I can have sex and I do have orgasms.

          Caitlyn Jenner didn't say she wasn't getting her SRS just that wasn't an immediate concern and something she will decide on at a later date. Trans women and men can be straight, bi, or gay in their sexual orientation but they can also pursue their chosen interests after SRS to say I want to be a woman but I want to fuck women & men like a man just brings into question the sincerity and authenticity of their "gender identity" to people looking in from the outside.
          Jenna Talackova would not have won her battle to be reinstated to compete in the Miss Universe contest had she not had her SRS. Fallon Fox would not have won her right to compete as female in the MMA had she not had hers. Society is willing to grant us the rights & privileges of womanhood they just expect us to be sincere in our "gender identity".
          *F*A*N*T*A*SA*

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TSFantasia View Post
            Well I wouldn't expect anyone who has built a successful, lucrative t-girl escort or porn career to be in any hurry to cut off the head of the goose that lays the golden eggs

            However, for t-girls who take HRT, get breast implants, FFS, etc to say that completing their transition is too scary and risky is kind of contradictory as all these all procedures have their own risks involved. Also an SRS pussy is the most "real" female part a trans woman can have as implants are "fake" silicone and foreign materials. The srs pussy simple takes the skin, tissues, and nerve endings of the male genitalia remolds them into a vagina that does the same things for me I can pee, I can have sex and I do have orgasms.

            Caitlyn Jenner didn't say she wasn't getting her SRS just that wasn't an immediate concern and something she will decide on at a later date. Trans women and men can be straight, bi, or gay in their sexual orientation but they can also pursue their chosen interests after SRS to say I want to be a woman but I want to fuck women & men like a man just brings into question the sincerity and authenticity of their "gender identity" to people looking in from the outside.
            Jenna Talackova would not have won her battle to be reinstated to compete in the Miss Universe contest had she not had her SRS. Fallon Fox would not have won her right to compete as female in the MMA had she not had hers. Society is willing to grant us the rights & privileges of womanhood they just expect us to be sincere in our "gender identity".
            So you're saying that any transgendered people MTF & FTM who do not have bottom surgery are not sincere in their transition? That they shouldn't be validated in the gender they express in their daily lives?

            I think what's between the ears is a little more important than what's between the legs.. That's why the laws changed for identification..

            As for my lucrative career.. I made way more as a contractor & eco-coatings representative for my own corporations than I do now.. Some of the government contracts I used to get paid sick amounts where I made in excess of 1000/h in some cases.. The best one I had was a 12 hour job that paid me $17k after costs..

            But.. Money doesn't buy happiness.. neither does bottom surgery for some..

            Oh and just to clarify.. I like to fuck women and get fucked by men..

            And again I ask.. What about FTM trans people! Do they need bottom surgery for validation??

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            • #7
              Originally posted by AlexisDVyne View Post
              So you're saying that any transgendered people MTF & FTM who do not have bottom surgery are not sincere in their transition? That they shouldn't be validated in the gender they express in their daily lives?

              I think what's between the ears is a little more important than what's between the legs.. That's why the laws changed for identification..

              As for my lucrative career.. I made way more as a contractor & eco-coatings representative for my own corporations than I do now.. Some of the government contracts I used to get paid sick amounts where I made in excess of 1000/h in some cases.. The best one I had was a 12 hour job that paid me $17k after costs..

              But.. Money doesn't buy happiness.. neither does bottom surgery for some..

              Oh and just to clarify.. I like to fuck women and get fucked by men..

              And again I ask.. What about FTM trans people! Do they need bottom surgery for validation??
              I haven't researched FtM bottom surgery or talked to enough trans men to comment on that. I agree with any trans man or trans woman who is living full time in their gender is on HRT and under physicians & therapists care for gender dysphoria and moving forward in their transition goals to be recognized & validated in their gender ie govt ID's, access to gender specific facilities ahead of any final bottom surgery as I mentioned before the timing for this is different for everyone due to circumstances, finances, support systems , etc.

              My personal view is the individual should align their physical appearance and anatomy to their gender identity not create hybrids as the end product. I'm all up for recognizing individuals rights to be a cd, tv, or gender fluid if that's what they are under the transgender umbrella.
              *F*A*N*T*A*SA*

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              • #8
                SRS surgery inst a prerequisite to being a trans gendered person nor is it a requirement. And it doesn't make someone who's had SRS any more of a trans person than someone who hasn't. Some trans gendered women love having a penis. I much prefer the ones that do That what makes them special.
                I am Greep, hear me roar

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                • #9
                  Precisely..

                  Originally posted by greep View Post
                  SRS surgery inst a prerequisite to being a trans gendered person nor is it a requirement. And it doesn't make someone who's had SRS any more of a trans person than someone who hasn't. Some trans gendered women love having a penis. I much prefer the ones that do That what makes them special.
                  Exactly.. Otherwise one condemns all those who cannot have the surgery for whatever the reason..

                  Personally.. as a dominant butch woman that's primarily lesbian.. why on earth would I get rid of my dick?

                  All of my GG friends totally get this.. Some of them are primarily lesbian and will only see guys for $$$..

                  There'd be a bunch of unhappy girls & lots of guys out there if I did that.. and then I'd have to use a strapon with no sensation.. lol..

                  That last bit Fantasia said sounds like it came direct out of the office of Dr Bowman.. He's a Dr here in Vancouver.. Won't do your boobs unless you've had the bottom done.. thinks it's morally wrong to want to be both sexes.. says you have to be one or the other.. FITH if you ask me.. Such a statement invalidates everyone who cannot or does not do bottom surgery MTF & FTM alike..

                  For the record.. I believe in "Equal Rights" not special rights.. I also believe in the right to discriminate but not with the intent to offend.. So if I have a house for rent and I don't want to rent it to you cuz you're Gay, Jewish, Black, Asian, Muslim, Amish. Morman, Christian, Catholic, Handicapped, Too Young Or Old, An Idiot or a tranny I don't have to..

                  I'm certainly not doing the bottom since I don't see the need.. I've had an "F" on my birth certificate & all ID for over 2 years now.. I doubt that I'll do any FFS either and will just work on defying age instead since it's a little less invasive.. FFS & bottom SRS scare me too.. boobs and a face lift is pretty commonplace and not so specialized although the Dr I used in Thailand was a 15 year SRS/FFS specialist at the top SRS clinic in Bangkok..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Crag Rockheart View Post
                    Well unfortunately Transgender rights are not Black and white.Things like washroom issues I see TGs demanding rights but not necessarily offering any solutions.Options are offered like gender neutral washrooms but often this is not good enough.
                    even within transgender genders there are different kinds or variations of transgender genders ranging from masculine transgenders to feminine transgenders. this is very true so maby there should be 6 different kinds of washrooms in total, hahaha(but im serious)-
                    1).women washroom. 2).men washroom. 3).feminine transgender women(with a penis) washroom.4).masculine transgender women washroom. 5).feminine transgender men(with a vagina) washroom.6).masculine transgender men washroom.

                    why did i address transgenders as transgender genders? well females and males are addressed as female gender and male gender where the word gender is a seperate word that appears at the end of their sex. So shouldnt it be the same for transgenders that the word gender appear as a seperate word at the end of their sex? Yes it should be. I guess im the first one on internet to think of this? watch everyone follow now.
                    Last edited by dom r; 07-04-2015, 08:02 PM.

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                    • #11
                      maybe we separate washrooms into 2 types

                      Urinals.... (no peeking)

                      &

                      Stalls... (with commando 9000 exhaust fans)


                      BTW - I think there are many versions of Transgendered...I'm only interested in one..."Non-Op Versatile"...who obviously likes men.

                      Let's try and count how many others there are....it will be quite the number

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AlexisDVyne View Post
                        Exactly.. Otherwise one condemns all those who cannot have the surgery for whatever the reason..

                        Personally.. as a dominant butch woman that's primarily lesbian.. why on earth would I get rid of my dick?

                        All of my GG friends totally get this.. Some of them are primarily lesbian and will only see guys for $$$..

                        There'd be a bunch of unhappy girls & lots of guys out there if I did that.. and then I'd have to use a strapon with no sensation.. lol..

                        That last bit Fantasia said sounds like it came direct out of the office of Dr Bowman.. He's a Dr here in Vancouver.. Won't do your boobs unless you've had the bottom done.. thinks it's morally wrong to want to be both sexes.. says you have to be one or the other.. FITH if you ask me.. Such a statement invalidates everyone who cannot or does not do bottom surgery MTF & FTM alike..

                        For the record.. I believe in "Equal Rights" not special rights.. I also believe in the right to discriminate but not with the intent to offend.. So if I have a house for rent and I don't want to rent it to you cuz you're Gay, Jewish, Black, Asian, Muslim, Amish. Morman, Christian, Catholic, Handicapped, Too Young Or Old, An Idiot or a tranny I don't have to..

                        I'm certainly not doing the bottom since I don't see the need.. I've had an "F" on my birth certificate & all ID for over 2 years now.. I doubt that I'll do any FFS either and will just work on defying age instead since it's a little less invasive.. FFS & bottom SRS scare me too.. boobs and a face lift is pretty commonplace and not so specialized although the Dr I used in Thailand was a 15 year SRS/FFS specialist at the top SRS clinic in Bangkok..
                        Well your injecting yourself personally rather than looking at the balancing of transgender rights/privileges with the rights/privileges of everyone else which Crag mentioned we cannot have a I don't give a fuck attitude towards the rights & sensibilities of others and then demand respect for our own.

                        So then what's the cut off point for transgender individuals receiving female/male rights privileges ie "F" or "M" on their IDs, access to gender specific facilities (public restrooms, change rooms, shower rooms at swimming pools, fitness centres)?

                        You said you have an "F" on your ID with no intention of SRS will you assert your female rights to change in female change rooms, shower naked next to females of varying ages at swimming pools or fitness centres? You say you don't need a vagina to validate you are female so then the casual CD hairy chests, arms, legs, five o clock shadow, baritone voice can demand the same rights and privileges as you when he/she is out for the night. Who are you to tell them they are not woman enough or need to feminize their appearance to be a woman when they would say they are transgender and a woman just like you.

                        My point is I think society has the right to expect mutual respect of their rights, privileges, and sensibilities and a reasonable and sincere effort on the part of the individual to be presentable in their gender if they want recognition as that gender and access to gender specific privileges.
                        *F*A*N*T*A*SA*

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TSFantasia View Post
                          Well your injecting yourself personally rather than looking at the balancing of transgender rights/privileges with the rights/privileges of everyone else which Crag mentioned we cannot have a I don't give a fuck attitude towards the rights & sensibilities of others and then demand respect for our own.

                          So then what's the cut off point for transgender individuals receiving female/male rights privileges ie "F" or "M" on their IDs, access to gender specific facilities (public restrooms, change rooms, shower rooms at swimming pools, fitness centres)?

                          You said you have an "F" on your ID with no intention of SRS will you assert your female rights to change in female change rooms, shower naked next to females of varying ages at swimming pools or fitness centres? You say you don't need a vagina to validate you are female so then the casual CD hairy chests, arms, legs, five o clock shadow, baritone voice can demand the same rights and privileges as you when he/she is out for the night. Who are you to tell them they are not woman enough or need to feminize their appearance to be a woman when they would say they are transgender and a woman just like you.

                          My point is I think society has the right to expect mutual respect of their rights, privileges, and sensibilities and a reasonable and sincere effort on the part of the individual to be presentable in their gender if they want recognition as that gender and access to gender specific privileges.
                          I think you might have to re-read what I wrote there and take things a bit more literal.. lol..

                          I don't shower naked next to anyone in change rooms.. and every facility I've been to has private shower stalls in this province..

                          Who the fuck's business is it for anyone to check and see what a person has between their legs..

                          The bathroom agenda needs to get flushed.. If some male perv is in the ladies room jerking off or there to do anything other than use the bathroom he should get arrested.. But then I've seen a lot of women in ladies rooms that look as masculine as my dad..

                          The point of view is shameful and discriminatory to say the least.. It totally invalidates everyone who doesn't have bottom surgery.. MTF and FTM.. It also invalidates every trans person that came before that was unable to access bottom surgery or even HRT for that matter.. Even you are still yourself genetically male and not actually female and you never will be no matter what surgeries you get..

                          What matters is what's in your head.. not between your legs..

                          I met all the legal criteria to have my ID changed.. That included a letter from a professional affirming my transition.. Thankfully the lawmakers in this wonderful country do not think the way you do by insisting we undertake extremely invasive and complicated surgery that is prone to complication simply to validate our gender identity..

                          Not trying to be mean just arguing a point..
                          Last edited by Ahole; 07-03-2015, 10:37 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AlexisDVyne View Post
                            I think you might have to re-read what I wrote there and take things a bit more literal.. lol..

                            I don't shower naked next to anyone in change rooms.. and every facility I've been to has private shower stalls in this province..

                            Who the fuck's business is it for anyone to check and see what a person has between their legs..

                            The bathroom agenda needs to get flushed.. If some male perv is in the ladies room jerking off or there to do anything other than use the bathroom he should get arrested.. But then I've seen a lot of women in ladies rooms that look as masculine as my dad..

                            The point of view is shameful and discriminatory to say the least.. It totally invalidates everyone who doesn't have bottom surgery.. MTF and FTM.. It also invalidates every trans person that came before that was unable to access bottom surgery or even HRT for that matter.. Even you are still yourself genetically male and not actually female and you never will be no matter what surgeries you get..

                            What matters is what's in your head.. not between your legs..

                            I met all the legal criteria to have my ID changed.. That included a letter from a professional affirming my transition.. Thankfully the lawmakers in this wonderful country do not think the way you do by insisting we undertake extremely invasive and complicated surgery that is prone to complication simply to validate our gender identity..

                            Not trying to be mean just arguing a point..
                            I already said what criteria I think is necessary to change gender tags on IDs one of them was not SRS and definitely if you are so in love with your male genitalia and how they function and how it feels when you fuck and orgasm you should definitely keep it. I personally think you are living out a fantasy that has nothing to do with gender dysphoria or gender identity as a woman. I certainly don't "condemn" those who make other choices regarding their genitalia and there is a small percentage who cannot have bottom surgery done for a variety of reasons but would if it were possible, as no trans man is in love with the fact that they have a vagina and no trans woman is in love with their penis.

                            As I said before there are other identities under the transgender umbrella it's just sad that all the cds and tvs don't identify themselves as such instead of muddying the waters for those who are serious about transitioning to their gender and not just tacking on a few traits to satisfy their sexual fantasies. By all means I support people who are these other identities they just don't need the official recognition of being women/females.

                            We are a minority within the LGBT minority fighting for recognition, respect and rights. The concept of being transgender the public understands to mean someone born with a gender identity opposite to their biological sex, who needs access to the necessary medical procedures to correct this ie. HRT, SRS, FFS to allow that individual to live and be accepted as male or female.
                            The more instances they see of people saying they have gender dysphoria but clearly no distress over their most obvious contradictory genitalia the less support and the more skeptical the public will become.

                            And comes back to the same point if SRS is an unnecessary and too risky step to take to change your anatomy to match your gender identity why do anything at all? Why get laser hair removal, breast implants, FFS of any kind isn't that condemning those who can't afford to or just feel its unnecessary and too risky? Let's all just walk around looking like burly bikers and constructions workers call ourselves Sally declare I am a woman and march into the woman's change & shower rooms?
                            *F*A*N*T*A*SA*

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TSFantasia View Post
                              I already said what criteria I think is necessary to change gender tags on IDs one of them was not SRS and definitely if you are so in love with your male genitalia and how they function and how it feels when you fuck and orgasm you should definitely keep it. I personally think you are living out a fantasy that has nothing to do with gender dysphoria or gender identity as a woman. I certainly don't "condemn" those who make other choices regarding their genitalia and there is a small percentage who cannot have bottom surgery done for a variety of reasons but would if it were possible, as no trans man is in love with the fact that they have a vagina and no trans woman is in love with their penis.

                              As I said before there are other identities under the transgender umbrella it's just sad that all the cds and tvs don't identify themselves as such instead of muddying the waters for those who are serious about transitioning to their gender and not just tacking on a few traits to satisfy their sexual fantasies. By all means I support people who are these other identities they just don't need the official recognition of being women/females.

                              We are a minority within the LGBT minority fighting for recognition, respect and rights. The concept of being transgender the public understands to mean someone born with a gender identity opposite to their biological sex, who needs access to the necessary medical procedures to correct this ie. HRT, SRS, FFS to allow that individual to live and be accepted as male or female.
                              The more instances they see of people saying they have gender dysphoria but clearly no distress over their most obvious contradictory genitalia the less support and the more skeptical the public will become.

                              And comes back to the same point if SRS is an unnecessary and too risky step to take to change your anatomy to match your gender identity why do anything at all? Why get laser hair removal, breast implants, FFS of any kind isn't that condemning those who can't afford to or just feel its unnecessary and too risky? Let's all just walk around looking like burly bikers and constructions workers call ourselves Sally declare I am a woman and march into the woman's change & shower rooms?
                              thank you
                              I am with you Fantasia

                              @ Alexis: you look great and fine the way you are.
                              However, i hope you dont feel offended by my honest comment, i dont think we are on the same boat.

                              I am not saying I am better and you are worse. We are just different

                              Btw, like Fantasia, i also support all "genders variation and labels"..and totally fine with CD.
                              We just have to realize, there is some variation within the tgirl community itself.
                              Not a big deal..but should be differentiated imo


                              A World Class Courtesan. Seeing is Believing.
                              Canada-USA-Europe-New Zealand-Australia-South Africa and the Middle East

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