Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

STI's and social responsibilty.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • STI's and social responsibilty.

    For some time now a fair amount has been written in some threads here with regard to the transmission of STI’s both to and/or from individual clients and escorts. There is considerable disagreement over what should be done to overcome the receipt of such unwanted “gifts”, with some very heated and unrealistic comments being made on both sides of the issue.

    THERE IS NO EASY SOLUTION TO THIS DILEMMA!

    Publicly identifying (outing) suspected sources of infection has already been mentioned here as a solution. In opposition to that for example, it has been said that no one person has a right to know another person’s medical history.

    Both views have support by some these days, especially now when confidentiality, particularly in respect to medical files, is socially very much in the forefront BUT, any concealment of the presence of life-threatening pathogens, by a purveyor of sexual acts completely disregards the rights of others (who might prefer to avoid any risk what-so-ever to themselves of receiving such an infection).

    I am not referring here to anyone who may deliberately accept such risk, but to those who may, despite their taking of all reasonable precautions, become infected entirely by accident.

    It is my belief that one’s personal wishes should never be considered a priority, BEFORE taking into consideration, the good of the community or of society as a whole.

    In defense of that position I submit, that without such consideration being the norm in the past, the world would be in a much worse state than it now is. So many diseases have already been eradicated or seriously reduced by containment or isolation of the carriers, even prior to the development of effective current medical cures. Seldom do we hear today of epidemic outbreaks of tuberculosis, typhoid fever, leprosy, or smallpox, all of which have been responsible for the deaths of millions over the years, and which have today, essentially been eliminated by the methods of containment used in the past, and now today with the help of modern pharmaceuticals such contaiment can be maintained with relative ease.

    A few examples to consider:

    - Consider the Tainted Blood scandal of a few years ago. Everyone demanded then that the government take action to control the outbreak!

    - Consider the situation recently at Maple Leaf Foods. Everyone demanded that the government take action to control the outbreak!

    - Consider the Melamine in Pet Food and now in Chinese milk products. Everyone demanded that the government take action to control the situation!

    - Despite the ongoing attempts to distribute un-pasteurized milk in Ontario, very few of us seem to be aware that cow's milk was the principle mode of transmission of Tuberculosis, and Louis Pasteur became world famous for his discovery of the process used to destroy the pathogen responsible. Elimination of Tuberculosis, an epidemic at the time, was THE reason for pasteurization of milk back in 1862. It evntually became the norm in an effort to control the Tuberculosis epidemic of the day.

    - It was Pasteur who first realized that disease was caused bacteria and that for this reason doctors should wear gloves of rubber to prevent the transmission of their patients sickness to them. While Pasteur did not invent condoms it was his belief in the protection provided by rubber gloves that I am sure inspired the develpment of the rubber condom.

    - Many of you will be too young to be aware of this, but not too many years ago, and before a pharmaceutical cure for TB was found, if a school student in Ontario tested positive for Tuberculosis, the Medical Officer of Health was required to have that student removed from that school immediately, and sent to a sanitarium, possibly for years. Then the primary treatment was principally rest. (I remember a classmate being called out of class one day, and within 30 minutes his locker was emptied, he was gone, never to return home for more than 3 years). As a carrier of a pathogen he was removed from society for the protection of others!

    - In various countries including Canada, governmental staff also tracked down individuals (as well as all of their contacts), who were thought to be infected with any common diseases, including some STI's which were then known as Venereal Diseases. Once located, the individuals were isolated if necessary, and treated to effect a cure and thereby reduce chances of spreading the disease.

    - In view of the successful use of isolation and enforced treatment of diseases in the past, and the near or total elimination of some of the scourges of mankind by these methods, perhaps it is time now for us to give some serious thought to finding an effective new way to help ensure the best possible protection is afforded to the public/society today.

    Of course, for such a system to again work successfully, that process must necessarily involve the government!

    I have no idea of what that might be! Do you?

    I don't think hiding an infection from others will help anyone!

    Do you really believe that it would?

    Should infected individuals be isolated from society in some way as they once were??

    How much less contagion would there have been had that individual in Hamilton been removed from society a few years ago?

  • #2
    the stuff you gave on tb is irrelevant seeing as it is a contagious disease as opposed to a sexually transmitted one. the only way you could see a decline in sti's is if both parties involved are responsible. by that i mean it is the infected person's responsibility to let others know (ie. who they're fucking) so that the other person can make their own decision on whether they want to take the risk of being infected. but honestly, if you have something, you shouldnt be in the business, thats just extremely selfish. and it is then up to the other person to decide whether or not to take the risk, and if they do, to be as safe as possible. but if you play with fire, eventually you get burned.

    Comment


    • #3
      Permit me to argue my point!

      Originally posted by tgirllover13 View Post
      the stuff you gave on tb is irrelevant seeing as it is a contagious disease as opposed to a sexually transmitted one.
      I accept the intent of your reply BUT, your understanding of "contagious" is not correct. Contagious means: Communicable by contact.

      You meant, I am sure, that TB is transmissable by other than direct contact BUT at one time {and not too long ago, even though STI?s, which of course require direct contact for transmission, person's with STI's, and any of their known contacts, were tracked down by health authorities and dealt with as I pointed out.

      Originally posted by tgirllover13 View Post
      ........ the only way you could see a decline in sti's is if both parties involved are responsible. by that i mean it is the infected person's responsibility to let others know (ie. who they're fucking) so that the other person can make their own decision on whether they want to take the risk of being infected. ??
      But is not the principal problem we face, that not everyone IS responsible, so not every infected person is going to take that responsibility, you suggest they should, therefore you may be fooled (tricked actually) into suspecting that they are, and have been, responsible.

      Originally posted by tgirllover13 View Post
      ?. but honestly, if you have something, you shouldnt be in the business, thats just extremely selfish. and it is then up to the other person to decide whether or not to take the risk, and if they do, to be as safe as possible. but if you play with fire, eventually you get burned.
      Yes, as I pointed out before, such individuals are totally selfish and care NOTHING about their partners health. They remove from their clients the ability to make informed decisions! The client is deceived!

      Of course this also works in reverse too, and I accept that any client is also capable of deceiving the escort/provider or others. And also, what about the recently infected person who is not yet aware of their infection??

      Originally posted by tgirllover13 View Post
      ?. the only way you could see a decline in sti's is if both parties involved are responsible.
      But tgirllover13, this where the whole thing breaks down.


      Unfortunately, as you and I know, not all people can be regarded as either honest or responsible. This is where I suspect that any effort to control this is going to suffer a lack success. This is where, because of human frailty, some outside authority must assist in the clean-up.

      Once again I have to admit that I have no idea of what the solution is, but until a pharmaceutical solution is found, this problem is NOT going to go away.

      As things now stand, our so called "civil rights" and the Charter of Rights and Freedom are both barriers to the provision of resolution.



      My Sunday Sermon has now ended and I thank you for your attendance!

      Comment


      • #4
        My understanding is,
        If someone test positive for HIV, Hepatitis or any type of water borne parasite or illness, the doctor by law has to report them to the Public Health office.
        The Public Health Authority then has a list of HIV and Hepatitis carriers.
        They contact the infected and tell them there options and try to get the names of everyone they have had sex with. Also they warn these people that it is illegal to have unprotected sex without telling their partner about their status. This conversation is proof that the person knows they are infected.

        Not sure if this is all jurisdictions but I think so.
        So there is a list, it just isn't publically available.
        ____________________________


        Timaaay!


        Text follow tgirlforums to 21212 in Canada
        Text follow tgirlforums to 40404 in the United States

        Comment


        • #5
          I am prety sceptical about the merits of self-policing!

          Yes Admin I believe you are right, BUT currently nothing much beyond the warning lecture you mention is done about those on the lists. I believe such lists are almost universal in developed countries.

          Those who act responsibly will not be a problem because they care about others. There are always some though who are not responsible and for those types, the threat of doing something illegal is not really a great deterrance. Nor is that threat a significant deterrance to someone who needs a roof overhead and a meal, or someone who desperately needs a "fix".

          Yes, I am prety sceptical about the merits of self-policing!

          Originally posted by Admin_2008 View Post
          My understanding is,
          If someone test positive for HIV, Hepatitis or any type of water borne parasite or illness, the doctor by law has to report them to the Public Health office.
          The Public Health Authority then has a list of HIV and Hepatitis carriers.
          They contact the infected and tell them there options and try to get the names of everyone they have had sex with. Also they warn these people that it is illegal to have unprotected sex without telling their partner about their status. This conversation is proof that the person knows they are infected.

          Not sure if this is all jurisdictions but I think so.
          So there is a list, it just isn't publically available.

          Comment


          • #6
            Toban:

            I appreciate that you've taken the time to create this thread, and you've brought up a number of interesting points. You also ask a number of questions that deserve a great deal of thought, and your well-constructed post deserves a well-constructed response. I want to give your post the attention it deserves, which will require a lot of research for proper citations, so your patience is appreciated while I create a proper rebuttal.

            In the meantime, I propose a starting point for this discussion that focuses on practical means for slowing and stopping the spread of HIV. I accept that government involvement is necessary to the elimination of this epidemic, but like yourself, I don't have the answers to this problem. Many people believe that government involvement in the sex trade will have an effect on HIV rates, so let's use that as a starting point.

            WHAT CAN THE GOVERNMENT DO TO SLOW OR STOP HIV TRANSMISSION IN THE SEX INDUSTRY?

            HOW WOULD THESE MEASURES AFFECT SAFER-SEX PRACTICES, ON THE PART OF CLIENTS AND SP'S ALIKE?

            It might take me a few days to develop a proper response, but these two questions would give us a specific issue to discuss, and perhaps, through our discourse, we will find a way to improve health and safety for everyone.

            Comment


            • #7
              well written post

              Comment


              • #8
                Now that sounds like a plan!

                Thank you for the excellent response Nikki.

                I felt certain Nikki, that you were one who could be counted on to make a valid contribution to the thread, so I for one, will be waiting to see what you come up with!

                I hope that others too will have some reasoned responses to your questions.

                In a matter so serious, and so important to all of us here, this is no time for unthinking, "shoot from the hip" responses!




                Originally posted by TGirl Nikki View Post
                ............. In the meantime, I propose a starting point for this discussion that focuses on practical means for slowing and stopping the spread of HIV. I accept that government involvement is necessary to the elimination of this epidemic, but like yourself, I don't have the answers to this problem. Many people believe that government involvement in the sex trade will have an effect on HIV rates, so let's use that as a starting point.

                WHAT CAN THE GOVERNMENT DO TO SLOW OR STOP HIV TRANSMISSION IN THE SEX INDUSTRY?

                HOW WOULD THESE MEASURES AFFECT SAFER-SEX PRACTICES, ON THE PART OF CLIENTS AND SP'S ALIKE?

                It might take me a few days to develop a proper response, but these two questions would give us a specific issue to discuss, and perhaps, through our discourse, we will find a way to improve health and safety for everyone.

                Comment


                • #9
                  thx toban and nikki

                  thanks both i look forward to the continuation of this thread. this is such a huge undertaking.i think it would be marvelous to see some thoughtful undertaking to find possible means, methods that could find some sort of resolution that could be offered to people or governments come out of this.

                  if we had red light districts then perhaps more information and safer sex practices could ensue. however with every thing we do there will always be people that will cheat a system to grab a few bucks. a little jaded i know.

                  Toban i agree with you that self policing will not work because of the reasons you stated before, but also because there is still so much stigma attached to STI's, if you have somethng you must be someone of low morale character etc. i dont agree with that but it seems to be the way STI's are regarded.

                  perhaps if more people get into this thread and offer opinions or links to informative sites then we can have a serious conversation.

                  cheers
                  according to some, not trangendered

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kristopin View Post
                    thanks both i look forward to the continuation of this thread. this is such a huge undertaking.i think it would be marvelous to see some thoughtful undertaking to find possible means, methods that could find some sort of resolution that could be offered to people or governments come out of this.

                    if we had red light districts then perhaps more information and safer sex practices could ensue. however with every thing we do there will always be people that will cheat a system to grab a few bucks. a little jaded i know.

                    Toban i agree with you that self policing will not work because of the reasons you stated before, but also because there is still so much stigma attached to STI's, if you have somethng you must be someone of low morale character etc. i dont agree with that but it seems to be the way STI's are regarded.

                    perhaps if more people get into this thread and offer opinions or links to informative sites then we can have a serious conversation.

                    cheers
                    not likely there will never and i mean never be red light districts in canada period,any hooker that walks the streets should be in jail not on the streets.
                    SEMI-RETIRED 519-209-3058

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      why not like new orleans

                      Originally posted by tslisaparadise View Post
                      not likely there will never and i mean never be red light districts in canada period,any hooker that walks the streets should be in jail not on the streets.
                      Lisa would you be opposed to say using the Cherry beach area as a new orleans style red light area? do you think that this could also be financially beneficial to the city i.e. tourists?
                      according to some, not trangendered

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kristopin View Post
                        Lisa would you be opposed to say using the Cherry beach area as a new orleans style red light area? do you think that this could also be financially beneficial to the city i.e. tourists?
                        i just think sex needs to be in the privacy of your own home not out on the street where are kids can see it.look at it this way if anyone needs to be begging off the streets its time for a career change dontcha think?
                        SEMI-RETIRED 519-209-3058

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Parameters of Discussion

                          Ok, I've been giving it a lot of thought, and doing my research (to the detriment of my schoolwork, unfortunately) and I'm making progress. However, someone could easily write an essay, term paper, or an entire book about this topic; therefore, I think we need to establish the limits of our discussion.

                          First off, I suggest that we limit ourselves to the sex industry, while trying not to make generalizations about sexual behaviour in society. This will be hard to do, and I'm not expecting to stay within the confines I've suggested, but I would prefer if our focus remained on the sex trade wherever possible. This is mostly for practical reasons; many of us are involved in the industry in one capacity or another, so it makes sense to stick to what we know.

                          Second, we need to back up our statements with sources wherever possible, preferably links to formal studies on HIV. And please, please, PLEASE, if you're going to cite a statistic, make sure you've got it right - we'll be checking up on everything, because there's no room for misconceptions, generalizations, or hearsay evidence. We need cold, hard facts if we're going to come to any solid conclusions.

                          Third, there's no reason why this can't be a civil discussion. If you take issue with someone's argument, then by all means, say so - but limit your criticism to the argument, and don't personalize it. Personal attacks destroy your own credibility, as well as distract from the focus of the discussion. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but that doesn't mean everyone's opinion is right. If you think it's wrong, say so - but also say why it's wrong, and propose an alternative viewpoint. Above all else, if your argument is attacked, don't take it as an attack on your character - and don't respond with an attack on the person who criticized your argument.

                          I think we've established some reasonable rules and limitations; let's see where it goes. I'll start things off in my next post.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Proposed solutions

                            So, as I read it, we've had a number of suggestions on how the government can approach the HIV problem. I'll list the ones we're mentioned so far:

                            1) Isolation of all HIV+ individuals
                            2) Regulation and localization of the sex industry (with mandated testing)
                            3) Incarceration of street-involved sex workers
                            4) A publicly-available list of HIV+ individuals
                            5) Increased funding towards HIV education and safer-sex techniques

                            Anything you'd like to add to the list? Feel free - the more options we have to discuss, the richer our discussion will be.

                            Once we've settled on the list of possibilities, we can go over the pros and cons of each option, and see what we find - it should make for a lively and interesting exercise.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I don't want to be the jester anymore.

                              What more can be said that hasn't been mentioned previously and presently?

                              - Provisioning of educational and monetary assistance
                              - Developing strategies for reduction of abuse of these provisions
                              - Preventive health measures.

                              etc.

                              I would like to take a very serious stance here as I sometimes feel that my opinion is taken lightly if at all and would like to share something incredibly dear.

                              HIV is classified in 2 categories, HIV 1 and HIV 2. HIV 1 is the global prevalent infection with high transmitability and HIV 2 is more predominant in West Africa. Each of course is given from one person to another in ways we are all familiar with. Since the "official" inception as a "legit" infection in 1981 it's estimated that 25 million people have perished from infection.

                              With this basic knowledge given to the public and by those in the medical field you would think that perhaps there would be a decrease in deaths yet here we are discussing this topic of social responsibility.

                              Why?

                              Yes , it is important to talk about such things and make claims and debate and procure a list that goes on ad infinitum that provides answers, solutions and/or opinions on this and other categories/sub categories but truth be told social responsibility comes within one self.

                              It is up to the individual to come forth and decide what they wish to share and not share and as much as that is not a favorable answer by most it is what it comes down too. Also, in stating that people should "adhere" to certain legislative measures or actions just sounds so ludicrous. What is life then if not to live it the way you are comfortable with? This then goes into another category of morals and ethics which in turn goes deeper than what we are typing here.

                              Take into consideration who is writing this and where this is being written. A Canadian, European male, young age...etc. What if this was elsewhere say in Ghana? How would this be perceived?

                              Others may think this it as an ideological perception where as others may say this is a saving grace.

                              The point? There is no clear cut answer and never truly will be.

                              If you have a hot passionate time with many people then all power to you and of course its up to you to protect yourself and others and have fun as how you and they see fit but I state this.

                              Do to me as I would do to you



                              Cheesy? Perhaps. Boring? Maybe. Important? Most definitely.



                              Take that any way you like but living life by this alone can garner you a lifetime of pleasure in every aspect.











                              Comment



                              Working...
                              X