Do you know for certain?

[Rantsalot]

Here's a simple question to the rookies and vets, mostly geared to the guys but the girls can comment too.

Myself over the years I have now been able to easily distinguish who are t girls as opposed to years back when I was at a loss and was unsure. Perhaps its all the photos I've sen here or just the interaction from them at clubs like Goodhandys who knows for sure. So to all the guys new to this or who have been around are you able to easily spot if a person is a t girl on first sight or do you still have the occasional trouble?

[Alexis]

Well..

Some TGirls aren't 100% passable.. amplified if you add liquor..

Alternatively I've met lots of trans men and trans women that had me totally fooled..

There's lots of tgirls that you would never know unless they told you..

[Rockheart]

In North America I have met hundreds upon hundreds of tgirls and thought I was pretty good.
There seemed to be very few that fooled me.

In Brazil it seemed about the same, perhaps a little more easy to detect than Canada.

However I have been often fooled in Thailand and continue to be every time I go.
I is quite phenomenal, some of the ladyboys you see in Thailand.
Whats quite amazing is how many you don't notice just due to them blending in.

[chantel]

I know there are many girls here who are quite convincing and i would not know if i did not know them,there are some also who honestly believe they are and there not at all,unless your blind in one eye and cant see out the other lol....i myself am not and will admit that,i am quite presentable and told by many im pretty but i do not fool them,..you can be attractive without being convincing.. i see many on the paysite advertisements that are not convincing .i believe the majority of people can tell unless you are 100% convincing. Interesting thread

[Datreebear]

For me a lot depends on context. I probably walk by passable T-Girls fairly often and not notice - unless I am looking out for them. When I do consciously look for them I like to think I do fairly well. Of course, I have no way of knowing about any I miss. Then again, my friends are often impressed by my ability to point them out. (Though at least some of them must be wondering _why_ I am so much better at it than they are. )

A while back I was coming home from Badminton and ran into a young couple on the elevator (guy and asian girl). I noted that she was quite attractive but didn't think anything beyond that. As they were leaving the elevator he made a joke and she threw her head back and laughed. When she did so her voice dropped and it caused me to look a bit closer. Sure enough - adam's apple, slightly masculine wrists, etc. Until that point nothing about her had triggered for me. I always wondered if the guy knew (I presume so). I also have to admit to feeling a bit jealous of him. She was pretty damn cute.

[mranonymousjoe10]

I don't pay enough attention to that sort of thing in public because I am too wrapped up in trying to get where I am going and the people I'm with.

But I could easily tell a TS from a GG. There's just something about a tgirl... that extra umph... that gives me an even harder. It's intuitive!

[Ree_Strong]

In North America I have met hundreds upon hundreds of tgirls and thought I was pretty good.
There seemed to be very few that fooled me.

In Brazil it seemed about the same, perhaps a little more easy to detect than Canada.

However I have been often fooled in Thailand and continue to be every time I go.
I is quite phenomenal, some of the ladyboys you see in Thailand.
Whats quite amazing is how many you don't notice just due to them blending in.

Havent travelled to those places but I agree. I find asian t-girls are hard for me to spot and sometimes also spanish. Contrary to that though, if I didnt know of t-girls or had any as acquaintances, I wouldnt have a second thought to some.

[Dita Dior]

I have met many girls and some have me fooled, the girls tell me and I can't invision a boy back in the day.

Like Paris, Marie Eve, Lola, Kymlie , and others.

As for out in public, I don't get clocked no one really knows as most of us we just blend in, I find when I go out with others is when people know I am transexual.

Or maybe its all in my mind, and thats why they all whisle and hoot when I leave the front door. I think the mans perspective is most needed on this, since my answer is biased.

[Raging Bob]

I'm pretty good at telling now, a lot better than I was anyway......but I love being fooled.....so hot!!!!!!!!!

Imagine the surprise!!!

[Datreebear]

Lucy, I've never met you in person but if your photos are any indication, I suspect you can walk around all day and never be clocked. I know if I didn't have foreknowledge I would likely never know if I saw you. You'd still probably catch me staring - though that would just be because of how beautiful you are.

I have to agree with Raging Bob. Seeing a beautiful woman and then being surprised by her being a T-Girl is very hot.

I know almost all of the shemales in person,for me; passable pretty shemales are Maria Lee(montreal),Amity,jenllee and Kymlie(montreal) .those are the ones didn't have any facial surgery,looks very real and natural.if you see them on the street you can never tell that they re tgirls.I can consider myself passable too cause the only surgery I had on my face was a little nose surgery,the rest are all mine ...
ps.I didn;t mention the asian girls cause majority of them are passable.

[lucy]

you re so kind babes.thank god as a start with I never had adam apple,never had body or facial hair,wasn't too tall,never had a deep voice ...etc..so it was very easy for me to convert.these girls that I mentioned are same too,they have the natural, feminene beauty that you can't buy it with any plastic surgery.on the other hand I know lots of girls already had tons of surgeries and still getting more and still look muscular and sound muscular.when I was going to school for my post graduate,nobody knew that I was a tgirl,actually its kind of neat,I have lots of good memories...
and be sure about my pics,I have about 500 of them in my website and they are all accurate and real as everybody knows...

Lucy, I've never met you in person but if your photos are any indication, I suspect you can walk around all day and never be clocked. I know if I didn't have foreknowledge I would likely never know if I saw you. You'd still probably catch me staring - though that would just be because of how beautiful you are.

I have to agree with Raging Bob. Seeing a beautiful woman and then being surprised by her being a T-Girl is very hot.

[Datreebear]

The word "Fooled" is perhaps a poor choice in that it can imply deception. However, I read it it to mean "surprised" in the context of this thread thus far. I agree with you 100% that a tgirl is a woman and therefore not trying to deceive anyone. The true deception would be if she tried to life her life as a man (at least IMO). For me, if I see a good looking woman and then find out she is a T-Girl (and I didn't pick up on that), I don't view that as deception. I view that as a pleasant surprise. I am sure I am not alone in thinking that.

BTW, those pictures of you out and and about are very nice. You are a beautiful woman through and through.

Fooled ? be honest I don"t call it fooling, If the tgirl is exactly a girl than she is not fooling you, SHE IS JUST ANOTHER GIRL WITH BONUS, I don't have to tell the guy I am a transsexual I live as a woman for years.

[sunshine]

Getting off topic

Here's a simple question to the rookies and vets, mostly geared to the guys but the girls can comment too.

Myself over the years I have now been able to easily distinguish who are t girls as opposed to years back when I was at a loss and was unsure. Perhaps its all the photos I've sen here or just the interaction from them at clubs like Goodhandys who knows for sure. So to all the guys new to this or who have been around are you able to easily spot if a person is a t girl on first sight or do you still have the occasional trouble?

As the responses to this thread have conntinued to pour in, I think we are getting off topic. I'm going to respond to Rantsalot's original question.

There are some striking differences between male physiology and the female. The differences begin at the genetic level and propogate to the skeletal, muscular, and hormonal systems of the body. It is impossible to completely transform a male physiology into the female equivalent or vice versa. That being said, these differences appear on a gradient scale. A woman may have masculine traits and a man may have feminine traits in varying degrees. When Rantsalot asks whether a tgirl can be readily identified as such, this depends on what she had to work with at the onset and what she did to improve on what she had. However, no matter the extent of the work done during the transition, it is impossible to change certain basic anatomical differences. For example, the male an female spine and pelvic structure are radically different. The female spine is much more curved and terminates in a pelvic structure with an angle of 100 to 110 degrees. The male pelvic structure is at an angle of 70 degrees and is much more robustly built. The male pelvis is optimized for running while the female is optimized for childbirth. Even if the tgirl started with a small bones and a slight frame, there is no way to change the basic configuration of the skeleton.

The male skull is not shaped the same as the female equivalent. Male skulls have pronounced brow ridges to some degree while female skulls do not. However, there are surgeries that can alter the skull's features to feminize them. On the other hand, some women have rather masculine traits. I won't mention any names but some women look like men. And, of course, some men look like women to begin with. In some races, the differences are very slight. This might explain how Craig gets fooled in Thailand.

So there are a couple of things to consider when wondering if a tgirl can fool you:
1. What did she have to begin with - how feminine was she to begin with?
2. How much work did she do to build on what she had - hormone therapy to change the texture of the skin and the areas of fat accumulation?
- cosmetic improvements, whether surgical or not, to make her features more feminine?
3. How closely are you looking - if you look close enough, you will be able to tell - shape and angle of the hips and the skull, of the ribcage and body proportions?

The truth is that you are fooled because of an illusion. This illusion is a product of what your own mind expects to see combined with efforts of the tgirl to appear as feminine as possible, given what she has to work with and what she has done with it in her trasnsformation.

Here is a picture of me when I was very young. I won't tell you how old I was but I will say that I had not done anything to transform. For all intents and purposes, I was a man. In the second picture, you see me as I appear today. You can see that I have not done too much. I haven't even removed my Adam's Apple, although I keep thinking I want to do that. The results are mainly due to some cosmetic treatments and a good hormone regimen.

In my experience, I fool alot of guys, usually because they focus on my breasts. On the other hand, I'm also aware that I am sometimes recognized as a tgirl. This happens alot when I deal with people of my own race. The know exactly what I am, just as Thai people probably catch on qhickly when in the company of a Thai tgirl. We know our own race better than others.

I don't care either way. I look good, I feel good, I like who I am. That's the main thing. I'm not trying to fool anyone. I enjoy providing the illusion of femininity to those who have a fantasy of being with a tgirl. My male attributes are as vital to this as my femininity. I have no intention of becoming a woman. SRS is not in the books for me.

Sunshine

[Rantsalot]

...

I do not understand where the whole "fooled" term came into play. I just proposed a simple question as to how easy or difficult it is/was for people to distinguish a tgirl when seeing one. The whole notion of 'fooling/fooled" implies in a sense that the person who is the proposed t girl has some kind of motive or notion that they are doing what they do with some purpose as to gain an advantage in some situations through wicked deception.

A true t girl would just naturally transition from start to finish without trying to deceive anyone and if a guy or girl asked them if they were a t girl theyd be up fron about it and say yes or on the opposite end understand that they need more progression if someone said so. In short take the good with the bad.

[toban]

Being "fooled" can be a lot of fun!

Sunshine has very capably described many of the physiological differences between the sexes. I'd like to add a bit more related to the anatomical function of the individual. These differences are most notable in the pelvic and shoulder areas. The female pelvis is naturally broader than the male so as to allow a large open area sufficient to permit passage of a child during birth, the male pelvis being correspondingly narrower.

The male shoulders are broad and well muscled by nature of the males hereditary roles in providing physical protection and food gathering etc. for his family, while the female shoulders are correspondingly, much narrower and less muscular.

These differences are generally easily seen with the male body assuming a shape somewhat like an inverted triangle {think of a body-builder's broad shouldered, narrow hipped shape here} while the female shape {much to the chagrin of many females} is rather bottom heavy and the reason for many TS silicone injections.

Of course there are many women with shoulders as broad as a mans and also men with unusually large behinds too, so neither of these characteristics is by itself a key to the actual sexual nature of the individual. As someone has suggested earlier "Our eyes will see what we wish them to see" thus we willingly allow ourselves to be "fooled"!