When a man becomes a woman with a cock, why does she act and think like a woman?

[toban]

Gotta put my 2 cents worth in here

Here's my theory on this. It goes a little further back. In the uterus, we all begin as females. - - - - - - Since we start female, which is XX chromosome. Male is XY. Basically the Y chromosome attaches itself and since it is dominate it changes the sex to male of the fetus. - - - - - -

I have to disagree with this view.

We do not all start as female.

There is no way to change a cells genetic complement from XX to XY! Sex is pre-determined at the instant the egg is fertilized by a sperm cell! If that sperm carries a “Y” chromosome rather than an "X" the resulting child can only become male.

Once fertilized, the egg soon begins to divide and forms a mass of undifferentiated cells, called the zygote. Within a few days, as this cell division continues, some cells prepare to take on specific roles, some will be precursors of the skeletal system, some the nervous system, some the digestive system and others the reproductive system etc. etc..

At this point these cells, which will be the precursors of the reproductive system, are neither male nor female, they are asexual! These asexual primordial cells will only cause development of male genitalia in the embryo when fertilization was accomplished by a sperm with the “Y” chromosome, while the absence of a “Y”, or in other words the presence of an "X" chromosome after fertilization would permit these same cells to cause development of female genitalia in the embryo!

You will find the above information is factual - here is a link to start with :-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_differentiation

What happens in the brains of transexuals is not really known to any man, though there is much thought about hormonal influences, among many others, as playing some part - but at this point it is basically nothing but conjecture. Better be prepared to acknowledge that Domr's beliefs may have some merit.

[bb420]

I think dom r is talking about the "Nature vs. Nurture" aspect, and not the literal biology of baby brains(lol).
As in baby brains are basically "blank slates" when born, and they are conditoned into pre-defined gender roles from the moment they exit the womb.

I guess M2F trannies start to think and act like "women" is because they are acting out sterotypical female behaviour that's alreay been enforced by society for generations. Or it could just be the hormones. *shrugs*

[Shyla Wild]

I have to disagree with this view.

We do not all start as female.

There is no way to change a cells genetic complement from XX to XY! Sex is pre-determined at the instant the egg is fertilized by a sperm cell! If that sperm carries a “Y” chromosome rather than an "X" the resulting child can only become male.

Once fertilized, the egg soon begins to divide and forms a mass of undifferentiated cells, called the zygote. Within a few days, as this cell division continues, some cells prepare to take on specific roles, some will be precursors of the skeletal system, some the nervous system, some the digestive system and others the reproductive system etc. etc..

At this point these cells, which will be the precursors of the reproductive system, are neither male nor female, they are asexual! These asexual primordial cells will only cause development of male genitalia in the embryo when fertilization was accomplished by a sperm with the “Y” chromosome, while the absence of a “Y”, or in other words the presence of an "X" chromosome after fertilization would permit these same cells to cause development of female genitalia in the embryo!

You will find the above information is factual - here is a link to start with :-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_differentiation

What happens in the brains of transexuals is not really known to any man, though there is much thought about hormonal influences, among many others, as playing some part - but at this point it is basically nothing but conjecture. Better be prepared to acknowledge that Domr's beliefs may have some merit.

I am prepared

I should have said Neutral instead of female.


A few weeks after fertilization, the initial appearance of the human fetal genitalia is basically feminine: a pair of "urogenital folds" with a small protuberance in the middle, and the urethra behind the protuberance.

In typical fetal development, the presence of the SRY gene causes the fetal gonads to become testes; the absence of it allows the gonads to continue to develop into ovaries. Thereafter, the development of the internal reproductive organs and the external genitalia is determined by hormones produced by fetal gonads (ovaries or testes) and the cells' response to them.

If the fetus has testes, and if the testes produce testosterone, and if the cells of the genitals respond to the testosterone, the outer urogenital folds swell and fuse in the midline to produce the scrotum; the protuberance grows larger and straighter to form the penis; the inner urogenital swellings swell, wrap around the penis, and fuse in the midline to form the penile urethra.

If testosterone is not present, normal female development continues, with the development of a perineal urethra and the formation of a uterus, clitoris and vagina.

The M?llerian ducts, which are paired ducts of the embryo which empty into the cloaca, and which develop into the upper vagina, cervix, uterus and oviducts; in the male they disappear except for the vestigial vagina masculina and the appendix testis.

Because of their common origin in fetal anatomy, a number of male and female anatomical features are said to be homologous; for example, the clitoris and penis are homologous with one another, as are Skene's glands in females and the prostate gland in males.

Most of the time, the result of fetal genital development follows the stereotypical male or stereotypical female development path. However, in a small but significant minority of cases, the path of development follows an intermediate or other pathway, leading to what are called "ambiguous genitalia", one condition of those known as intersexuality.

See congenital anomalies of the genitalia for a list of congenital disorders caused by problems with fetal genital development.

Also Facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_genital_development

Also understand that my theory was that... a theory, but I have some science to back some of my theories. My theory is not without holes, as I do not have all the education in human genetics or human development. But like I said I have some science some back some of my theory. Nobody knows what happens to a transsexual. But I also believe my theory hold strong on that. How's this. SRY is what is responsible for introducing Testosterone into the body. What if the fetus gets the testosterone?

But as for the nature vs nuture theory. What to know what really happens to a child without human contact and guidance? It's called a feral children...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child

[toban]

Now I see what you meant!

I am prepared

I should have said Neutral instead of female. - - - - - - - - Also understand that mytheory was that... a theory, but I have some science to back some of my theories. My theory is not without holes, as I do not have all the education in human genetics or human development. But like I said I have some science some of my theory.

But as for the nature vs nuture theory. What to know what really happens to a child without human contact and guidance? It's called a feral children...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child

so yes, neutral is more fitting!

BTW, there is also another explanation for that seam that runs from the end of the foreskin to the anus but it's too complicated to explain here.

A great many children are growing up without adequate parental guidance these days and unfortunately I have had to deal with far too many of those feral children!

[Shyla Wild]

so yes, neutral is more fitting!

BTW, there is also another explanation for that seam that runs from the end of the foreskin to the anus but it's too complicated to explain here.

A great many children are growing up without adequate parental guidance these days and unfortunately I have had to deal with far too many of those feral children!

LOL.

Like I said, we all have theories. Mine isn't so bad since I do have some merit to my transsexual theory. I think I have some pieces but like I said, I don't have the education in this to put them together.

[Shyla Wild]

Ok, let go back to the orginal subject. What would happen if a child were isolated?

I present to you Genie. One of the worst cases of social isolation ever. This is a situation where the sexual behaviour is really the least of this poor child's problems.

Genie is the pseudonym for a feral child who spent nearly all of the first thirteen years of her life locked inside a bedroom strapped to a potty chair. She was a victim of one of the most severe cases of social isolation ever documented.^[1] Genie was discovered by Los Angeles authorities on November 4, 1970.
Psychologists, linguists and other scientists exhibited great interest in the case because of its perceived ability to reveal insights into the development of language and linguistic critical periods. Initially cared for in the Children's Hospital Los Angeles, Genie later became the subject of acrimonious debate over where and with whom she should eventually live, moving between the houses of the researchers who studied her, to foster homes, to her mother's house, and finally to a sheltered home for adults with disabilities in California. Funding and research interest in her abilities eventually ceased and she quickly regressed to her previous state. In 1994, a book was written about her case by Russ Rymer.
As of 2008 she was a ward of the state and in confinement in a private institution for the mentally undeveloped ? the location of the institution and her current name remain undisclosed.^[2]Genie's discovery was compared extensively with that of Victor of Aveyron, subject of the movie,The Wild Child.

Genie spent the first 12 years of her life locked in her bedroom. During the day, she was tied to a child's toilet in diapers; some nights, when she had not been completely forgotten, she was bound in a sleeping bag and placed in an enclosed crib with a cover made of metal screening. Indications are that Genie's father beat her with a large stick if she vocalized, and he barked and growled at her like a dog in order to keep her quiet. He also rarely allowed his wife and son to leave the house or even to speak, and he expressly forbade them to speak to Genie. By the age of 13, Genie was almost entirely mute, commanding a vocabulary of about 20 words and a few short phrases (nearly all negative, such as "stop it" and "no more").<sup>[4]

Soure:</sup> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)#Characteristics_and_personalit y

[Rockheart]

I have to disagree with this view.

We do not all start as female.

There is no way to change a cells genetic complement from XX to XY! Sex is pre-determined at the instant the egg is fertilized by a sperm cell! If that sperm carries a “Y” chromosome rather than an "X" the resulting child can only become male.

Once fertilized, the egg soon begins to divide and forms a mass of undifferentiated cells, called the zygote. Within a few days, as this cell division continues, some cells prepare to take on specific roles, some will be precursors of the skeletal system, some the nervous system, some the digestive system and others the reproductive system etc. etc..

At this point these cells, which will be the precursors of the reproductive system, are neither male nor female, they are asexual! These asexual primordial cells will only cause development of male genitalia in the embryo when fertilization was accomplished by a sperm with the “Y” chromosome, while the absence of a “Y”, or in other words the presence of an "X" chromosome after fertilization would permit these same cells to cause development of female genitalia in the embryo!

You will find the above information is factual - here is a link to start with :-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_differentiation

What happens in the brains of transexuals is not really known to any man, though there is much thought about hormonal influences, among many others, as playing some part - but at this point it is basically nothing but conjecture. Better be prepared to acknowledge that Domr's beliefs may have some merit.

Domr's says the brains are the same at birth, not at conception, it is just not right.
There also is no brain at conception, only cells with genetic instructions.

Shyla is correct the basic human template is female.
Up to a certain point of development in the womb there only a generic female.
However even though all fetus appear the same for a time, they are different.
The genetic code programmed into them is not the same.
So on a cellular level they are the same, on a genetic level the are different.

Toban is correct that the chromosomes determine the sex, however as I have stated twice,
The genetic code is stored in the human fetus until the time it is meant to be kicked off.
So there may be a minute moment in time when the brain is partly formed before the sex takes hold that the brains are identical.
However at this time there is no human influence.

So there is a certain point the body triggers the genetic code to start changing to a male,
otherwise the fetus continues female development.

We are just evolving computers with different programs.
Once the install sequence starts something drastic would have to happen in the womb to change the sex.

For example Crocodile fetus in highly polluted swamps laden with estrogens can change from male to female in the womb.
However without some type of unnatural interaction this type of thing is not possible.

[Shyla Wild]

So there is a certain point the body triggers the genetic code to start changing to a male,
otherwise the fetus continues female development.

Within 7-10 days of development this event happens:

In typical fetal development, the presence of the SRY gene causes the fetal gonads to become testes; the absence of it allows the gonads to continue to develop into ovaries. Thereafter, the development of the internal reproductive organs and the external genitalia is determined by hormones produced by fetal gonads (ovaries or testes) and the cells' response to them.

It seems as this SRY gene is the key. With it the fetus becomes male. Without it continues to develop into a female.

[Rockheart]

Within 7-10 this event happens:

In typical fetal development, the presence of the SRY gene causes the fetal gonads to become testes; the absence of it allows the gonads to continue to develop into ovaries. Thereafter, the development of the internal reproductive organs and the external genitalia is determined by hormones produced by fetal gonads (ovaries or testes) and the cells' response to them.

It seems as this SRY gene is the key. With it the fetus becomes male. Without it continues to develop into a female.

I concur.

[dom r]

I think dom r is talking about the "Nature vs. Nurture" aspect, and not the literal biology of baby brains(lol).
As in baby brains are basically "blank slates" when born, and they are conditoned into pre-defined gender roles from the moment they exit the womb.

I guess M2F trannies start to think and act like "women" is because they are acting out sterotypical female behaviour that's alreay been enforced by society for generations.

THATS CORRECT.

When a baby is born their brains are already programmed with the genetic sequences to create a man or a woman.
As the child grows older this sequence slowly takes effect.
When they hit puberty it kicks in full tilt.

Babies are born with different genitals, their brains have to be different by default, as they have different body parts.

If the babies were locked in a dark room for the first 10 years of their life, they would still grow into women and men.
The women would still be nuturing and motherly.
The men would still be manly and aggressive.

All you are talking about is whether the boy plays with trucks and the girl plays with dolls.
Whether the boy wears blue or pink or whether the girl likes frilly things.

Being man or woman is not taught.

Yes its true that a male's brain is gentically different than a female's brain ONLY when relating to the PHYSICAL changes that will occur to create a man's body or a woman's body, but MENTALLY they are IDENTICLE with the same emotions and thinking patterns at birth is what i'm really tyring to get at. You're correct in saying if a male baby was living on a deserted island for 20 years with no possible outside contact or influence from the human world he would physically grow into a man BUT his emotion and thinking patterns would be IDENTICLE to a female who also grew up on another deserted island with no outside contact or influence for 20 years. Perhaps their way of thinking or their mental mind would be NEUTRAL and neither would act according to their gender to think like a masculine man or a feminine women, they would both think and act like a NEUTRAL GENDER because they haven't received any interaction,conditioning or influence on how to act and think like a man or a woman, so you are wrong in saying that such a man would grow up to be more manly,agressive and less nuturing than a woman.

What happens in the brains of transexuals is not really known to any man, though there is much thought about hormonal influences, among many others, as playing some part - but at this point it is basically nothing but conjecture. Better be prepared to acknowledge that Domr's beliefs may have some merit.

Tanks!!!!!!!

I am truly sorry. You must be the Galileo or Da Vinci of our time. One day hundreds of years from now, they will dig up these forums and see how truly avant-garde your ideas were and how you truly were misunderstand.

Unfortunately for you, like Galileo or Da Vinci you now face the present day reality of the humiliation and utter laughter of your peers. I would also be wary of padded walls and straitjackets.

Ahahaha.
If it was true that a male's brain was born mentally different than a female's brain then it wouldn't be possible for feminine males or shemales to act and think like women because they would always have that ''male" brain that they were born with. Just like what Toban has said about my post, theres merit to it.
And Chaz Bono proves my point. She was born female and after the male hormone changed her physical appearance into a man, she started to act and think like a man. Did you see how she was dancing at that Dancing with the Stars show(which i dont watch),she was dancing,acting and thinking like a man due to her physical appearance of being a man. If she was in fact born with a different female "mental" brain like you think then it would be IMPOSSIBLE for her female mind to change,act and think like a man but this was not the case. So I prove you wrong, sorry. She even said herself after she became a man she could no longer hug and hold her wife any longer like she used to when she was a woman and felt less affectionate towards her. If she still had that "female mental" mind then why can't she be affectionate towards her wife like she used to? Thats because all men are taught,conditioned and influenced to be less affectionate towards women including the fact that women don't want men to be affectionate towards them. I mean I would not want a man to hug and hold me so all women feel the same way.

[sunshine]

What I see

I think DOM R would do well to recognize the great resource of real knowledge he has here in Shyla, Toban, and Craig.

My own personal experience tends to confirm what they say. Just saying they are wrong isn't going to change anything. If you want to be scientific about something, you have to develop a theory and then put it to the test. Part of that is being prepared to discover that your theory is wrong.

Sunshine

[Meagan Nutwood]

Wow... talk about ignorance.

[Rockheart]

At birth boys and girls brains are not the same.
As they grow older they grow more different, with or without influence.

Girls have more connections between the hemispheres of their brain than men.
Which means that girls use more of their entire brain than men do.
This starts to develop shortly after conception.

Basically there is no absolute way to change a babies or a persons sex after birth.
Possibly giving a baby massive hormones from birth would have some affect but would probably just shorten their life.
Influences might create a girl that's a tomboy or a boy thats fem, but that is all.
It doesn't determine whether they are gay or transsexual, except in extreme cases.

[sunshine]

Does anybody remember

I remember seeing a documentary about a doctor who worked with children who were intersexed. He had this theory that the parents could decide which gender to assign and the child could then be indoctrinated to be that gender. It happened in the 70s I think.

The short of it is that it failed completely. The children were messed up very badly by this "interference". This tends to prove that DOM R is not correct. You cannot change gender or sexual orientation through this sort of parental or social pressure. It also proves that, by the time a child is born, these things are already set. Forcing a child to fit into a definition of what is considered normal does more harm than good.

I don't remember the doctor's name nor the name of the documentary. It was really disturbing to see how the doctor kept applying more and more pressure on the kids as he saw that it wasn't working. Toward the end of the documentary, I remember the kids, now grown up, were interviewed. Really sad and disturbing.

What is really strange is how this doctor stubbornly held onto this false idea just like DOM R is holding onto it.

There is another similar line of thought in the world - that you can "educate" or "shame" someone into not being gay. They are in the minority but there are people who still believe that this is a conscious choice you can make.


Sunshine

[Shyla Wild]

Once again, you bring theories and ideas to the table with zero merit to back you. No facts, no science, not even religion. Nothing in this idea was thought out. A simple search on google brings up all the evidence I needed to rip this apart because all your theories still hang on the idea that we have the same brains. We do...for about the first 7-10 days in the womb. Also realize that the human brain is nowhere near 1/4 it's development in that first week, and since gender is not determined until the SRY gene event at about that one week mark, then it would be impossible for any kind of gender issues to develop in those first 7 days. After that, the brain develops either male of female.

Yes its true that a male's brain is gentically different than a female's brain ONLY when relating to the PHYSICAL changes that will occur to create a man's body or a woman's body, but MENTALLY they are IDENTICLE with the same emotions and thinking patterns at birth is what i'm really tyring to get at.

You are WRONG. I thought I already explained that men use grey matter to think and women use white matter. They use different thought processes to arrive at the same conclusion. Didn't I also explain that different sections were different sizes? I really don't feel like copying and pasting that information again so just read my third post again. Were the words I used too big to understand?

You're correct in saying if a male baby was living on a deserted island for 20 years with no possible outside contact or influence from the human world he would physically grow into a man BUT his emotion and thinking patterns would be IDENTICLE to a female who also grew up on another deserted island with no outside contact or influence for 20 years. Perhaps their way of thinking or their mental mind would be NEUTRAL and neither would act according to their gender to think like a masculine man or a feminine women, they would both think and act like a NEUTRAL GENDER because they haven't received any interaction,conditioning or influence on how to act and think like a man or a woman, so you are wrong in saying that such a man would grow up to be more manly,agressive and less nuturing than a woman.

I believed I covered social isolation and it's horrible side effects.

BUT...

Here's a article from the American Journal of Sociology.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2770265

Here once again is the case of Genie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)

Here is a study done on social isolation published in the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC285801/pdf/pnas00159-0105.pdf

Sexuality was not effected by social Isolation....It's proven.

If it was true that a male's brain was born mentally different than a female's brain then it wouldn't be possible for feminine males or shemales to act and think like women because they would always have that ''male" brain that they were born with. Just like what Toban has said about my post, theres merit to it.

Ok, enough of this. EDUCATE YOURSELF!

http://transsexual.org/aprimer.html

http://transsexual.org/What.html

http://www.looking-glass.greenend.org.uk/primer.htm

http://www.danistroom.com/inspirations/help/transgendered-terms-definitions.htm

Here is an idea. Instead of coming back with the same idea over and over again, take whatever pieces are left your theory that I continue to shatter and tear apart, go home and write something down with merit. Your theory have been proved wrong by science. Moreover, science has proved the opposite of what you are saying is true.

BUT if you really believe that you have merit to your theory, then Dom R I will not hold you back. I often help people realize their hopes and dreams by pushing them in the right direction.

CANADIAN JOURNAL OF SOCIOLOGY:
http://ejournals.library.ualberta.ca/index.php/CJS


The Canadian Journal of Human Sexuality (CJHS)

http://www.sieccan.org/cjhs.html

Canadian Psychological Association

http://www.cpa.ca/

If you believe that this theory has merit then I recommend you try to get it published in one of these Journals. Also, if you could find a way to videotape their reactions , that would be awesome! Just be careful with the last one, they may have A LOT more questions for you about other things....