When a man becomes a woman with a cock, why does she act and think like a woman?

[toban]

Having a 40 year scientific background

I feel that I must make one last submission to this thread. There seems to be a mistaken belief by some that female features are the first to develop only to be morphed later to male! In the beginning weeks of a pregnancy the developing embryo is neither m nor f, it is neutral.

Some also appear to incorrectly believe, that female is the default sex. While still just a clump of cells, the developing embryo contains certain cells destined to become the precursors of the sex organs (gonads). Even though sex was predetermined during fertilization those gonadal germ cells will not become gonads (male or female) until quite some time later. This early neutral period of several weeks, could be called the "indifferent" stage because during this time embryos are indistinguishable as either m or f. Only later, will the already pre-determined sex become evident.

The eventual sexual development of those germ cells is determined by the presence or absence of a “Y“ chromosome (and the SRY gene which it contains). With a Y chromosome present, at about week 6 or 7, the germ cells are directed to begin development of sperm producing cells and hormones which will give the foetus it’s maleness. Alternately, in the absence of SRY, a gene on the X chromosomes (DAX-1 ) takes over and directs the germ cells to produce ovaries, thus giving rise to female development of the foetus.

Here’s some non-technical reading (with actual embryo photos yet!) :- http://www.baby2see.com/gender/internal_genitals.html
Be sure to click on the link to “internal genital organs” to see actual changes to development of m and f up to 20 weeks.

[Rockheart]

I feel that I must make one last submission to this thread. There seems to be a mistaken belief by some that female features are the first to develop only to be morphed later to male! In the beginning weeks of a pregnancy the developing embryo is neither m nor f, it is neutral.

Some also appear to incorrectly believe, that female is the default sex. While still just a clump of cells, the developing embryo contains certain cells destined to become the precursors of the sex organs (gonads). Even though sex was predetermined during fertilization those gonadal germ cells will not become gonads (male or female) until quite some time later. This early neutral period of several weeks, could be called the "indifferent" stage because during this time embryos are indistinguishable as either m or f. Only later, will the already pre-determined sex become evident.

The eventual sexual development of those germ cells is determined by the presence or absence of a “Y“ chromosome (and the SRY gene which it contains). With a Y chromosome present, at about week 6 or 7, the germ cells are directed to begin development of sperm producing cells and hormones which will give the foetus it’s maleness. Alternately, in the absence of SRY, a gene on the X chromosomes (DAX-1 ) takes over and directs the germ cells to produce ovaries, thus giving rise to female development of the foetus.

Here’s some non-technical reading (with actual embryo photos yet!) :- http://www.baby2see.com/gender/internal_genitals.html
Be sure to click on the link to “internal genital organs” to see actual changes to development of m and f up to 20 weeks.

Toban the basic human template is that of a female.
It may only be days we are talking but there is a certain point before sex develops where the embryo are the same.
You could call it generic.
The human body develops to a point exactly the same.
Then when the time is right the sex kicks in.
The embryo that is meant to be male starts to change, the female embryo continues developing as it was.
There is no morphing going on, the basic human characteristics develop, and then the sex comes after.

"The sex is determined by the chromosomes of the male sperm cell, at the time of conception. However, development of a fertilized egg is the same for male and female, until at a certain stage, due to the genes on the Y-chromosome, male fetuses start to produce substances that change the development to follow the 'male' course."

All humans start out from the same generic template which is more female than male.
It is a fact.
I do not need to put links because you just go search on Google for:
"Embryos start out female"
You will find more references than you can handle.

The fact is there is no merit to what Dom R is saying.
If he said that children could be influenced to be more masculine or feminine, that would be correct.

The only time two babies brains are the same is for a few days or weeks after conception.

[Shyla Wild]

I feel that I must make one last submission to this thread. There seems to be a mistaken belief by some that female features are the first to develop only to be morphed later to male! In the beginning weeks of a pregnancy the developing embryo is neither m nor f, it is neutral.

Some also appear to incorrectly believe, that female is the default sex. While still just a clump of cells, the developing embryo contains certain cells destined to become the precursors of the sex organs (gonads). Even though sex was predetermined during fertilization those gonadal germ cells will not become gonads (male or female) until quite some time later. This early neutral period of several weeks, could be called the "indifferent" stage because during this time embryos are indistinguishable as either m or f. Only later, will the already pre-determined sex become evident.

The eventual sexual development of those germ cells is determined by the presence or absence of a “Y“ chromosome (and the SRY gene which it contains). With a Y chromosome present, at about week 6 or 7, the germ cells are directed to begin development of sperm producing cells and hormones which will give the foetus it’s maleness. Alternately, in the absence of SRY, a gene on the X chromosomes (DAX-1 ) takes over and directs the germ cells to produce ovaries, thus giving rise to female development of the foetus.

Here’s some non-technical reading (with actual embryo photos yet!) :- http://www.baby2see.com/gender/internal_genitals.html
Be sure to click on the link to “internal genital organs” to see actual changes to development of m and f up to 20 weeks.

Completely right. I agree with you 100% and once again I apologize for my ill terminology. But Toban, if I understand correctly from my research on this and what you wrote here, I am correct in stating that the fetus is neutral for 7-10 days until the possible SRY gene event. The reason I stated that we all begin as female was because if the fetus receives no Y and SRY gene then it would continue along it's state of development as female. Only with the SRY gene and Y chromosome present does the fetus become male. So in theory the sex is not determined or neutral but if we found a way to block this gene and chromosome, would the fetus always be female?

[toban]

Only after making my last post did I notice the several new posts regarding Domr?s recent weird writings, so I'm back.

I do believe that Domr is simply playing with us.

He?s been here for some time and during this time he seems to have prefered taking an untenable position on some contentious topic then sits back to watch what takes place as others attempt to discredit his statements.

I believe that he is probably enjoying all this attention!

Surely it is not possible he could be what he appears to be!

[Rockheart]

Whatever the case,

We are in essence carbon based biological computerized robots.

We are programmed at conception and we essentially cannot change the core of this program.
We can add to the program by learning and observing and adding it to the wisdom of our experience.

If I was brought up in a room as a girl I may think I am a girl because that is what my computer program has learned.
However i am not a girl.
We are only as good as the data in our brains, but the sex is programmed into Read Only Memory (ROM).
It cannot be changed today by science.

You can take hormones but you cannot grow a cock or pussy after birth.
You can stop the growth of a pussy or penis but not grow one.

Both sexes have nipples and we can all grow breasts and give milk with hormones. (male or female)
Just this fact shows you we all start out as female.

[Shyla Wild]

Only after making my last post did I notice the several new posts regarding Domr?s recent weird writings, so I'm back.

I do believe that Domr is simply playing with us.

He?s been here for some time and during this time he seems to have prefered taking an untenable position on some contentious topic then sits back to watch what takes place as others attempt to discredit his statements.

I believe that he is probably enjoying all this attention!

Surely it is not possible he could be what he appears to be!

The word Trolling came to mind more then once....

[toban]

Calling SRY, calling SRY!

. . . . . . I do not need to put links because you just go search on Google for:
"Embryos start out female"
You will find more references than you can handle.

Crag, I do believe that you and I will never agree on this. I have searched many many pages and many of the references there are not with any real scientific authority.

Yes, the stages of development for all normal fetuses are the same until the sex-chromosomes and hormones become important to the process. In the first few weeks before this takes place there is no male or female entity, just an asexual group of cells, albeit with some gonadal precursors waiting for the signal to start sexual development. These gonadal precursors are not sexual in themselves at this time but have the ability to become sexual at some later time. Since this change does not occur for the first several weeks then how can it be said that all are female in the beginning?

[Shyla Wild]

Crag, I do believe that you and I will never agree on this. I have searched many many pages and many of the references there are not with any real scientific authority.

Yes, the stages of development for all normal fetuses are the same until the sex-chromosomes and hormones become important to the process. In the first few weeks before this takes place there is no male or female entity, just an asexual group of cells, albeit with some gonadal precursors waiting for the signal to start sexual development. These gonadal precursors are not sexual in themselves at this time but have the ability to become sexual at some later time. Since this change does not occur for the first several weeks then how can it be said that all are female in the beginning?

You are both arguing the same point. Untouched the fetus will become female, otherwise male. If you chose to call it female or neutral at this point you both have the same idea.

[Rockheart]

Crag, I do believe that you and I will never agree on this. I have searched many many pages and many of the references there are not with any real scientific authority.

Yes, the stages of development for all normal fetuses are the same until the sex-chromosomes and hormones become important to the process. In the first few weeks before this takes place there is no male or female entity, just an asexual group of cells, albeit with some gonadal precursors waiting for the signal to start sexual development. These gonadal precursors are not sexual in themselves at this time but have the ability to become sexual at some later time. Since this change does not occur for the first several weeks then how can it be said that all are female in the beginning?

Then why do men need nipples for?
It's an efficiency thing.
The human body template is basically female without sexuality.

• So the first thing the first cells do is create a "human".
• To create a "human" you have to have ONE basic "class" or "template".
• From this one "human class" you can then derive the "sexual classes".
• The sexual classes are "male" and "female"
• It is just like basic modern computer science, if I was going to create a human program this is how I would do it.

Really, I have seen this on may reputable television shows and articles.

[toban]

I think this argument needs to be finished - we're not getting anywhere!

You are both arguing the same point. Untouched the fetus will become female, otherwise male. If you chose to call it female or neutral at this point you both have the same idea.

Yes, but -

Here is a different way of looking at this phenomena. The time at which the development of the sex organs will take place is already pre-programmed or pre-scheduled by the genetic information contained in the chromosomes of the zygote. Neither male nor female development can take place until that pre-determined time. Only after this process begins can the embryo be said to have a sexual identity, either M or F.

In the case of an XY containing zygote the SRY gene is the trigger which decides which way it will develop.

Female: (XX) At the appropriate time and in the absence of an “SRY” gene the development of female gonads will proceed.

Male: (XY) At the appropriate time while the SRY gene blocks development of the female organs the development of the male gonads begin to occur .

This quote below (in which I have underlined parts) explains that the embryo is neither male nor female and can develop into either.

Laura Hake, Ph.D. (Biology Department, Boston College) & Clare O'Connor, Ph.D. (Biology Department, Boston College) ? 2008 Nature Education

“In human embryos, the SRY gene encodes a unique transcription factor that activates a testis-forming pathway at about week seven of development. Before this time, the embryonic gonad is "indifferent," meaning that it is capable of developing into either a testis or an ovary (Figure 2). Likewise, the early embryo has two systems of ducts, Wolffian and M?llerian ducts, which are capable of developing into the male and female reproductive tracts, respectively. Once the SRY gene product stimulates the indifferent gonad to develop into a testis, the testis begins producing two hormones, testosterone and anti-M?llerian hormone, or AMH. Testosterone and one of its derivatives, dihydrotestosterone, induce formation of other organs in the male reproductive system, while AMH causes the degeneration of the M?llerian duct. In females, who do not contain the SRY protein, the ovary-forming pathway is activated by a different set of proteins. The fully developed ovary then produces estrogen, which triggers development of the uterus, oviducts, and cervix from the M?llerian duct.”

[lodi225]

You are all wrong. We start our intra-uterine life as fish! Read the delightful book "Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin, available in all good bookstores. Our adult anatomy betrays our fish ancestry in many different ways, just consider the course of the recurrent laryngeal nerve.

As far as sexual differentiation is concerned: In the absence of a Y-chromosome the fetus will develop in the female line. There are many chromosomal variants that illustrate this. XX, XO (Turner's syndrome), XXX (super females) will develop as females, although XO females only have rudimentary non functioning ovaries. XY, XXY (Klinefelter's), XYY will develop as males.

One exception is "testicular feminization". These are females who have an XY genotype but develop as females because the target structures are insensitive to testosterone. They tend to be tall and very well built females, but do not have ovaries, no uterus, no or very little pubic hair and they have small testicles that do not descend and need to be surgically removed. Jamie Lee Curtis is the best known example (who incidentally starred in "A fish called Wanda" - you see, it all comes around)!

As far as the psychology of male vs female is concerned there is intriguing information on the influence of estrogen and testosterone on the developing fetal brain during certain crucial times. These have been linked by some to homosexuality and transgenderism. But the exact mechanism and evidence is still uncertain (and very controversial).

I do think that DomR is a very profound thinker who may one day come up with a spectacular insight!

[dom r]

I do think that DomR is a very profound thinker who may one day come up with a spectacular insight!

Thanks for the comment.

OK, heres another way to prove my point. If very manly men with a deep man's voice who always acted and thought like men were to be made into a "fake" woman the way they do in movies by using a 100% realistic silicone mask and make up onto their face where they would look 100% female and padding within their clothing to give them a womanly figure and "fake" breasts. And lets say these men had thier voices changed to sound 100% female, I WILL BET that if these men were to live this way and interact with women and men in society for years they will eventually start to completely act and think like women through this interaction and influence including having the same emotions as a female. Wanna bet im right about this? If like you say a man's mind is permanently different than a woman's mind that cannot be changed into the mind of a woman then it would be impossible for that man who became that "fake" woman to start to act and think like a woman, but I bet the mind of such a man living as that fake woman would start change and he would act and think like a woman thus proving my theary to be correct.
dom r-
audience-

[tslisaparadise]

Surely it is not possible he culd be what he appears to be!

by that you mean brain dead

[dom r]

I remember seeing a documentary about a doctor who worked with children who were intersexed. He had this theory that the parents could decide which gender to assign and the child could then be indoctrinated to be that gender. It happened in the 70s I think.

The short of it is that it failed completely. The children were messed up very badly by this "interference". This tends to prove that DOM R is not correct. You cannot change gender or sexual orientation through this sort of parental or social pressure. It also proves that, by the time a child is born, these things are already set. Forcing a child to fit into a definition of what is considered normal does more harm than good.

Sunshine

Most likely those intersexed children that had a problem adapting to the gender that their parents assigned them to and were treated as such was due to the fact that those children DID NOT LOOK like that gender. There are cases even today where a child is born intersexed that a parent may treat him as a girl when he looks like a boy thus causing that confusion only because they were influenced in society to beleave boys are suppose to act like boys and not girls and NOT because a boy has a different mind at birth than a girl. The minds of all genders including intersexed are identicle at birth.

Intersex genders actually prove my point. There are intersex genders that have the IDENTICLE chromosome but have a boy's face or a girl's face but in reality both intersex children are an IDENTICLE gender thus if they're an identicle gender then they were born with an indenticle mind as what most people fasely beleave that a female is born with a female mind and a male is born with a male mind. BUT since one of them looks like a boy, he will grow up thinking and acting like a man through influence and interaction whereas the other intersex child who is the same gender but looks a girl will grow up and think and act like a woman thus proving my theory that their minds were the same at birth but only started to change when they were influenced to act like the gender that they looked like, the same way that a female's and male's mind starts to change when originally their minds were the same at birth. Sounds confusing?

[Shyla Wild]

Seriously, I'm not playing anymore. Clients pay me for the type of beating I've given you in this thread so far. I'm a little pissed, not because you reject science completely but because after each time I smack your ass, I enjoy hearing "Thank you Mistress. May I please have another". And not once from you...Bad Bad Boy.

Your hypothesis (not theories...this would never go that far) has zero research besides your personal opinion and observation. You reject not only commonly accepted theories, but you also reject common accepted fact.

Thanks for the comment.

OK, heres another way to prove my point. If very manly men with a deep man's voice who always acted and thought like men were to be made into a "fake" woman the way they do in movies by using a 100% realistic silicone mask and make up onto their face where they would look 100% female and padding within their clothing to give them a womanly figure and "fake" breasts. And lets say these men had thier voices changed to sound 100% female, I WILL BET that if these men were to live this way and interact with women and men in society for years they will eventually start to completely act and think like women through this interaction and influence including having the same emotions as a female. Wanna bet im right about this? If like you say a man's mind is permanently different than a woman's mind that cannot be changed into the mind of a woman then it would be impossible for that man who became that "fake" woman to start to act and think like a woman, but I bet the mind of such a man living as that fake woman would start change and he would act and think like a woman thus proving my theary to be correct.
dom r-
audience-