When a man becomes a woman with a cock, why does she act and think like a woman?

[Rockheart]

Yes, but -

Here is a different way of looking at this phenomena. The time at which the development of the sex organs will take place is already pre-programmed or pre-scheduled by the genetic information contained in the chromosomes of the zygote. Neither male nor female development can take place until that pre-determined time. Only after this process begins can the embryo be said to have a sexual identity, either M or F.

In the case of an XY containing zygote the SRY gene is the trigger which decides which way it will develop.

Female: (XX) At the appropriate time and in the absence of an ?SRY? gene the development of female gonads will proceed.

Male: (XY) At the appropriate time while the SRY gene blocks development of the female organs the development of the male gonads begin to occur .

This quote below (in which I have underlined parts) explains that the embryo is neither male nor female and can develop into either.

Laura Hake, Ph.D. (Biology Department, Boston College) & Clare O'Connor, Ph.D. (Biology Department, Boston College) ? 2008 Nature Education

?In human embryos, the SRY gene encodes a unique transcription factor that activates a testis-forming pathway at about week seven of development. Before this time, the embryonic gonad is "indifferent," meaning that it is capable of developing into either a testis or an ovary (Figure 2). Likewise, the early embryo has two systems of ducts, Wolffian and M?llerian ducts, which are capable of developing into the male and female reproductive tracts, respectively. Once the SRY gene product stimulates the indifferent gonad to develop into a testis, the testis begins producing two hormones, testosterone and anti-M?llerian hormone, or AMH. Testosterone and one of its derivatives, dihydrotestosterone, induce formation of other organs in the male reproductive system, while AMH causes the degeneration of the M?llerian duct. In females, who do not contain the SRY protein, the ovary-forming pathway is activated by a different set of proteins. The fully developed ovary then produces estrogen, which triggers development of the uterus, oviducts, and cervix from the M?llerian duct.?

You are kind of saying what I am.

However the intended sex is known at conception and stored for future reference.

Then the fetus evolves in a generic state, which is a basic human with breasts.
You have to understand we are not saying it is female at this point but it is a TEMPLATE of the female form.
We are talking gender not sexual organs. (You seem to be obsessed with the genitals, which I am not talking about)

When the time is right the sexual development begins.
The stored code is uncompressed and begins execution.
Essentially ending with long bone growth in your late 30's, then it's all downhill.

One of the reasons the beginning fetus is generic is for effiency.
Plus there was a time long ago that the sex could change or the baby may be naturally aborted.

If a female experiencing severe famine gets pregnant, she may automatically reject the birth because her body knows she has been starving and will allocate no nourishment to the fetus. Many animals do this.

A fetus intended to be a female could become male if the environment around the mother was such that a male may have a stronger chance of survival. These types of behaviours have been bred out of us to some extent due to having life too easy over the last millenia or so.

[Rockheart]

You are all wrong. We start our intra-uterine life as fish! Read the delightful book "Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin, available in all good bookstores. Our adult anatomy betrays our fish ancestry in many different ways, just consider the course of the recurrent laryngeal nerve.

As far as sexual differentiation is concerned: In the absence of a Y-chromosome the fetus will develop in the female line. There are many chromosomal variants that illustrate this. XX, XO (Turner's syndrome), XXX (super females) will develop as females, although XO females only have rudimentary non functioning ovaries. XY, XXY (Klinefelter's), XYY will develop as males.

One exception is "testicular feminization". These are females who have an XY genotype but develop as females because the target structures are insensitive to testosterone. They tend to be tall and very well built females, but do not have ovaries, no uterus, no or very little pubic hair and they have small testicles that do not descend and need to be surgically removed. Jamie Lee Curtis is the best known example (who incidentally starred in "A fish called Wanda" - you see, it all comes around)!

As far as the psychology of male vs female is concerned there is intriguing information on the influence of estrogen and testosterone on the developing fetal brain during certain crucial times. These have been linked by some to homosexuality and transgenderism. But the exact mechanism and evidence is still uncertain (and very controversial).

I do think that DomR is a very profound thinker who may one day come up with a spectacular insight!

The chromosomes and sex are known at conception.
It just does not take hold until the cells complete basic human development.

[toban]

This sounds kind of fishy to me!

You are all wrong. We start our intra-uterine life as fish! . . . . . . Our adult anatomy betrays our fish ancestry in many different ways, just consider the course of the recurrent laryngeal nerve . . . . . . . .

Here's a couple of tidbits related to your reference to our watery past.

I can't agree that we start out as fish but we certainly can’t avoid the fact that the human embryo does indeed have a very definite tadpole-like tail early on. Before birth it is normally fully absorbed but in a few unfortunate individuals it does survive at birth. The vertebrae of this tail still remain at the end of our spine today as our tail bone (coccyx) where the individual vertebrae are now solidly fused together.

The images attached illustrate the gradual recession of our tail until in the image of the 56th day it is not seen.

There’s also a controversy over several well defined grooves shown in the neck of the developing foetus (also visible in the photos). At one time these grooves were thought to be related to the gill slits of fish. Currently this relationship is out of favour but they are thought to be connected to development of the inner ear and parts of the mouth and it's cavity. These same grooves appear in the foetus of all of vertebrates.

[toban]

You are kind of saying what I am . . . . . . . . .

Yes Crag, I think we are pretty much in agreement generally. It's just that I can't see the foetus as male/female until the appropriate gonads/hormones are present. We know from the chromosomes present that it may be destined to become a male/female at some point in the future but until those elements are present how can it be ?

Like a pile of parts, sheet metal and wheels used to make a car can't be called a car until those parts are all present and installed in their proper places.

It's almost a chicken or egg kind of thing!

[sunshine]

Is it just me?

Most likely those intersexed children that had a problem adapting to the gender that their parents assigned them to and were treated as such was due to the fact that those children DID NOT LOOK like that gender. There are cases even today where a child is born intersexed that a parent may treat him as a girl when he looks like a boy thus causing that confusion only because they were influenced in society to beleave boys are suppose to act like boys and not girls and NOT because a boy has a different mind at birth than a girl. The minds of all genders including intersexed are identicle at birth.

Intersex genders actually prove my point. There are intersex genders that have the IDENTICLE chromosome but have a boy's face or a girl's face but in reality both intersex children are an IDENTICLE gender thus if they're an identicle gender then they were born with an indenticle mind as what most people fasely beleave that a female is born with a female mind and a male is born with a male mind. BUT since one of them looks like a boy, he will grow up thinking and acting like a man through influence and interaction whereas the other intersex child who is the same gender but looks a girl will grow up and think and act like a woman thus proving my theory that their minds were the same at birth but only started to change when they were influenced to act like the gender that they looked like, the same way that a female's and male's mind starts to change when originally their minds were the same at birth. Sounds confusing?

Is it just me or does it upset other people too when they interact with DOM R? Oh sorry, I guess you got upset too, Shyla. Maybe Toban and Craig have the right idea - ignore the non-sequitur bastard even if he did start the thread and carry on with a conversation that holds some merit. I regret posting on this thread now and I have to say that DOM R, you have really made me angry with your insensitive and idiotic treatment of what is, for many of us, a very serious and personal experience.

Maybe the problem is that you've been forced to conduct "fake thinking" and after years of societal pressure, you've become IDENTICLE to a human being while really being a "fake and IDENTICLE person" for real so, really, you always were a "fake IDENTICLE person" and your words are not fake, they are IDENTICLE to fake words. So you win because a fake IDENTICLE person has no obligation to make sense. What was I thinking?

Sunshine

[gamblor]

Thanks for the comment.

OK, heres another way to prove my point. If very manly men with a deep man's voice who always acted and thought like men were to be made into a "fake" woman the way they do in movies by using a 100% realistic silicone mask and make up onto their face where they would look 100% female and padding within their clothing to give them a womanly figure and "fake" breasts. And lets say these men had thier voices changed to sound 100% female, I WILL BET that if these men were to live this way and interact with women and men in society for years they will eventually start to completely act and think like women through this interaction and influence including having the same emotions as a female. Wanna bet im right about this? If like you say a man's mind is permanently different than a woman's mind that cannot be changed into the mind of a woman then it would be impossible for that man who became that "fake" woman to start to act and think like a woman, but I bet the mind of such a man living as that fake woman would start change and he would act and think like a woman thus proving my theary to be correct.
dom r-
audience-

Wow, this sure sounds like a fantasy of yours eh Dom you stupid stupid troll? Maybe you can get Shyla to dress you up like a whore and parade you around town.

btw, Shyla, thanks for all the informed scientific references on this subject.

[Shyla Wild]

Is it just me or does it upset other people too when they interact with DOM R? Oh sorry, I guess you got upset too, Shyla.

Upset? This goes WAY beyond upset. To have the balls to say that a TS thinks like a guy is very insulting coming from someone that does not live our lifestyle. To say it come from outside influence and not from the child itself is not only ridiculous, but downright insanity. Especially after it has been proven over and over that all his theories are wrong by Toban, Crag, and myself each time.

A long time ago, people had many views of the sky, rain, night, and the stars. Over time, we have come to realize how this things work. Dom R's idea concerning the Male/Female Brain, Social Isolation, and nature vs nurture are theories that a first semester Sociology student could rip apart. Someone with a degree in genetics would not only laugh at this garbage, but would show it to their colleagues for a good laugh. They are way beyond the stuff we are discussing here today. So, for the people who really have no idea what is going on here; here is the short easy version. Basically what I am saying is this. if the date today is 1550 BC, and Columbus had just discovered that the world was round 58 years ago, then Dom R has created a theory based on the fact that the world is flat.

Maybe the problem is that you've been forced to conduct "fake thinking"

After this part, I was so lost

Wow, this sure sounds like a fantasy of yours eh Dom you stupid stupid troll? Maybe you can get Shyla to dress you up like a whore and parade you around town.

btw, Shyla, thanks for all the informed scientific references on this subject.

Like a whore? Gamblor...sweetie think about it. The punishment does not fit the crime. This is very important. Like a child the punishment must suit the crime. This situation would call for a very very big dunce cap.

[dom r]

To have the balls to say that a TS thinks like a guy is very insulting coming from someone that does not live our lifestyle. To say it come from outside influence and not from the child itself is not only ridiculous, but downright insanity.

I'm not saying transgenders think like a man or are suppose to, i'm saying they start to think like a woman the SAME WAY that young girls or females do through interaction,conditioning and influence and trannies or transgenders have that same right.

A long time ago, people had many views of the sky, rain, night, and the stars. Over time, we have come to realize how this things work. Basically what I am saying is this. if the date today is 1550 BC, and Columbus had just discovered that the world was round 58 years ago, then Dom R has created a theory based on the fact that the world is flat.

Actually i'm the one who feels like Columbus trying to convince everyone that the world is round when you falsely still beleave its flat.

SO according to your and the greatest scientist's of the world's beliefs, a man of 20 who always acted and thought like a manly man who was put in a siliconed "woman" suit so to speak to give him the 100% realistic appearance of a woman including changing his voice into a female and he appeared like this EVERYDAY of his life where he socialised with many girlfriends and boyfriends, such a man living that way for 20 years til he was 40 would not think and act like the way women do including with the same emotions? You truly beleave this? This is what you're saying, you're saying such a man living that way would still act and think like a manly man with the emotions of a man without ever changing and I just don't see it.

[Shyla Wild]

I'm not saying transgenders think like a man or are suppose to, i'm saying they start to think like a woman the SAME WAY that young girls or females do through interaction,conditioning and influence and trannies or transgenders have that same right.

Actually i'm the one who feels like Columbus trying to convince everyone that the world is round when you falsely still beleave its flat.

SO according to your and the greatest scientist's of the world's beliefs, a man of 20 who always acted and thought like a manly man who was put in a siliconed "woman" suit so to speak to give him the 100% realistic appearance of a woman including changing his voice into a female and he appeared like this EVERYDAY of his life where he socialised with many girlfriends and boyfriends, such a man living that way for 20 years til he was 40 would not think and act like the way women do including with the same emotions? You truly beleave this? This is what you're saying, you're saying such a man living that way would still act and think like a manly man with the emotions of a man without ever changing and I just don't see it.

You want me to disprove all this right now? Transsexuals have existed before surgery, before HRT and before the first sex change in 1934. No matter what influence you set on a child, that child's genetics will fight it. Transsexuals are LIVING proof of that. No matter what influence was set upon us we still sided with the gender we associate with. Male have the Y chromosome, females the X, and Transsexuals have Gender Identity Disorder. These 3 things cause each sex to act as they do. Case Closed.

Lastly, you are not Columbus. Columbus proved the world is round. You are trying to prove that it is flat after it was proved round. Columbus is science and fact, which is what I have presented to you as my argument. You are the fool in the street telling people the world will end without any fact besides your own feelings, that you are so willing to bet on. Thinking and putting yourself on a level with Columbus does nothing but further make us doubt your mental state as now we can add "Delusion of Grandeur" to possible issues.

[dom r]

You want me to disprove all this right now? Transsexuals have existed before surgery, before HRT and before the first sex change in 1934. No matter what influence you set on a child, that child's genetics will fight it. Transsexuals are LIVING proof of that. No matter what influence was set upon us we still sided with the gender we associate with. Male have the Y chromosome, females the X, and Transsexuals have Gender Identity Disorder. These 3 things cause each sex to act as they do. Case Closed.

If I understood right, you said in your earlier post all men who become transsexuals were born feminine and that they were not influenced from the female kind to become that way. I just have 1 last question to ask ya. If a manly man who was born 100% male and was NEVER feminine and always acted and thought like a very masculine heterosexual man that never cried during emotional situations decided and wanted to become a woman by hormonal therapy, voice change, face reconstuction and breast implants with the result of him looking and sounding 100% like a woman. Would that man(now a woman) eventually start to think and act like a woman including just as emotional where she would cry like the way women always do at certain situations OR would she still act and think like a manly man because as you said all transsexuals who think like a woman were born feminine and not by influence? If you're answer is going to be "yes she will start to think and act like a woman", then you have just agreed with everything I have typed on this thread. The thing that most people don't understand is transsexuals or feminine boys start to think and act like a female THE EXACT SAME WAY that young girls starting at age 3 do, through conditioning and influence not because they're born that way.

Ok I did a quick research-

From Planned Parenthood site-

Gender roles are the way people act, what they do and say, to express being a girl or a boy, a woman or a man. These characteristics are shaped by society. Gender refers to society's expectations about how we should think and act as girls and boys, and women and men. Children learn gender roles from an early age — from their parents and family, their religion, and their culture, as well as the outside world, including television, magazines, and other media. By age three, children have usually learned to prefer toys and clothes that are “appropriate” to their gender.

-------THIS SITE MENTIONS-Gender roles are SHAPED by society. Children LEARN their gender role from their parents and society this includes being influenced to act and think according to their gender.They are NOT born that way and neither are transgenders, it is LEARNED and also SHAPED by society which includes receiving influence.

[Shyla Wild]

If a manly man who was born 100% male and was NEVER feminine and always acted and thought like a very masculine heterosexual man that never cried during emotional situations decided to become a woman by hormonal therapy, voice change, face reconstuction and breast implants with the result of him looking and sounding 100% like a woman. Would that man(now a woman) eventually start to think and act like a woman including just as emotional where she would cry like the way women always do at certain situations OR would she still act and think like a manly man because as you said all transsexuals who think like a woman were born feminine and not by influence?

The answer is simple, the manly man would never transition. You either have it or you don't. Nobody just wakes up and decides to be the opposite sex. Why would such a man ever do this? He would freak out just like transsexuals go through "confusion". He would fight this feminine state and regress back and reverse everything done to them. The exact same way a transsexual fights their born sexes and transition, this type of person would just undo all these changes.

[Shyla Wild]

Ok I did a quick research-

From Planned Parenthood site-

Gender roles are the way people act, what they do and say, to express being a girl or a boy, a woman or a man. These characteristics are shaped by society. Gender refers to society's expectations about how we should think and act as girls and boys, and women and men. Children learn gender roles from an early age — from their parents and family, their religion, and their culture, as well as the outside world, including television, magazines, and other media. By age three, children have usually learned to prefer toys and clothes that are “appropriate” to their gender.

-------THIS SITE MENTIONS-Gender roles are SHAPED by society. Children LEARN their gender role from their parents and society this includes being influenced to act and think according to their gender.They are NOT born that way and neither are transgenders, it is LEARNED and also SHAPED by society which includes receiving influence.

Excellent. The only problem is that this is all a theory. I cannot verify your source, but since there is some words missing from this let me expand this for you.

Gender role theory posits that boys and girls learn the appropriate behavior and attitudes from the family and overall culture they grow up with, and so non-physical gender differences are a product of socialization. Social role theory proposes that the social structure is the underlying force for the gender differences. Social role theory proposes that the sex-differentiated behavior is driven by the division of labor between two sexes within a society. Division of labor creates gender roles, which in turn, lead to gendered social behavior.

Before walking into a shit storm, I recommend reading this stuff because you are mixing up gender role and gender identity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_role

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity

Once again, Gender Role Theory can be rejected by Transsexuals. No matter what the outside influence, gender role is defined by the inner self of a transsexual, not by society.

PS: I love it that you keep coming back for more.