Bill C-279 in discussion in Parliament on CPAC

[toban]

Currently under discussion in Parliament is Bill C-279, a private members bill by NDP member Randall Garrison of Esquimalt-Juan deFuca to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code with respect to Gender Identity and Gender Expression. It is being opposed at this time by government members!

[Rockheart]

Bill C-279 in discussion in Parliament on CPAC

Currently under discussion in Parliament is Bill C-279, a private members bill by NDP member Randall Garrison of Esquimalt-Juan deFuca to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code with respect to Gender Identity and Gender Expression. It is being opposed at this time by government members!

This is really tricky stuff.

On one hand transgenders should have all the basic right of other people.
Basic rights and frivolous rights are different things.

However saying TGs should be able to do everything, is ridiculous.
Other people cannot do everything, no one can.

To be forced to hire a trangender when it does not fit with your business is crazy.

Transgender is not race, and people seem to think they should be treated the same.
It is gender expression and freedom of sexuality, not racial discrimination which you can never ever change.

Today i just not hire a woman as a sales person for my business because they are not attractive or personable enough in my opinion, that is my right.
It cannot be because they are white, black, hindu, transgender or something like that but there is no law against ugly.
So now if a unattractive trangender person applies for a job, they will scream discrimination and cause you much issue if they don't get hired, if these laws are not done properly.

To me as an employer it shouldn't matter if they are transgender, they should be a woman or a man.
A TG is saying they are a woman, so that is what you are, some other rights is stupid.
Transgender rights are too closely tied to Gay rights with everyone walking around saying I am a TG,
Rah Rah TG
This isn't the intention at all.
You say you are female then you are female, fuck all the TG rights bullshit.
There is Female rights period.

Trying to get rights for some transitional stage in between is wrong.
If you enjoy having tits and a dick, then you are a fetishist, I am sorry to say.

If i started showing up at my job as a woman suddenly, I should be fired if they like.
If I want to pursue trangenderism, I should quit and pursue it the proper way.
Not force it on them, that is wrong.
They hired a man and a different person.
Once you start taking hormones, you change.

You cannot practice religion in the work place, you shouldn't be allowed to do the same with sexuality.
People should be presenting their intended sex to the world, either male or female.
In no way should TGs be considered a visible minority or third sex status.
What's next, there has to be one third TGs in the workplace?

This stuff should be kept private in families, it is a bad influence on kids and other families.
Soon every family that didn't get the daughter they want will be bringing up their boy to be Miss America.
Anyone with a femmy boy will put them on hormones?
I have seen it in Thailand and it is just plain wrong.
The proliferation of this in Thailand is hurting more lives and society than it is helping.

Here this could just snowball and get out of hand.
These laws should only apply to people that are diagnosed and only at that time.
Self identifying would just be a gong show.

[toban]

This is really tricky stuff.

On one hand transgenders should have all the basic right of other people.
Basic rights and frivolous rights are different things.

. . . . . . Here this could just snowball and get out of hand.
These laws should only apply to people that are diagnosed and only at that time.
Self identifying would just be a gong show.

That was pretty much the Conservative argument that I heard. The Con. M.P. was concerned that the change will end up with "boys" using the girls washrooms and will be upsetting for the girls!

[Shyla Wild]

These laws should only apply to people that are diagnosed and only at that time.
Self identifying would just be a gong show.

You were pissing me off until you said this. You have a point.

That was pretty much the Conservative argument that I heard. The change will end up with "boys" in the girls washrooms and will be upsetting to the girls!.

Does any self-respecting transsexual use the Boys room?

[Rockheart]

You were pissing me off until you said this. You have a point.



Does any self-respecting transsexual use the Boys room?

I dont' mean to piss anyone off.

But I think the biggest thing here is not creating a third sex legally.
There is no such thing as a third sex.

There is two sexes period, if you are woman than be a woman.
If you are a man be a man.

I don't need to see some fake sex that has more rights than me.
That is only 2% of the population at best.
TS are not a visible minority, that is meant for races.
Maybe they are handicapped, but most would never stand under that umbrella.

No one should get special rights because they want to live as a woman only for sexual pleasure or profit.
As I said, if you decide you want to live the rest of your life as a shemale with tits and cock and never have SRS,
then you are not a transsexual period. You are a crossdressing fetishist and still a man.
This is the truth, sorry.
If you want to live as a woman, i can respect that , but you shouldn't get any special rights to do so if you are not officially TG.
You can push you gender on me, but not your sexuality.
if your main reason for doing this is sexual pleasure, you are not a transsexual.

Transgenderism is a condition, Gay is a lifestyle.
i really don't think there should be a link between the two like there is.
Just because you are gay and live like a woman doesn't mean you are transgender.
As I say there is Gay pride, but TG pride shouldn't really be thing because you are saying you are a woman.
Having TG pride means you want to stuck in the transitional state always, which means you are not a true TG.

Please tell me what should make you mad about what I said.
I know you have had some issues surrounding this but I stand by what I say.

If you hire someone as a man, you should have the option of retaining them or not if they decide to transition.
They are not the same person after the transition.
And until they are officially diagnosed or transitioned it is not fair to your employers to show up suddenly as a different person.

Big fat ugly women and men with no skills generally get jobs at 7-11.
Big fat ugly trannies should have the same results, they shouldn't be able to get better jobs because of their TG status.
They should be treated the same for all.
As i said there is no law about hiring ugly.
We all know that some great looking men, make horrible looking women.
Why should I lose all my customers because over night my best sales person went from attractive to repulsive.
I shouldn't I should have the right to choose if that person still fits as an employee for me.

All people have the right to an education.
Getting an education means that people tend to look less at your appearance and more on your skills.
All TGs have the same rights to an education as anyone and this is the road to success.
They can become successful in many other ways than trying to be somewhere they are not wanted.

I have never understood why people will go to such great lengths to stay somewhere they are not wanted,
when there is so many other place that they are wanted and accepted.

The thing that pisses me off about these types of situations is no body takes anyone elses feelings into account.
Other people besides TGs have a right to exist and they have a right to like and hire who they like.
As long and they are not discriminating base on race or gender.
I don't know how you could discriminate against those who aren't even sure about their gender.

As I said many families in Thailand are bringing up their boy children as TS, mostly for profit.
Many individuals are choosing it because it seems trendy these days.
The fact that the Thai government doesn't recognizes Transsexuals is the only thing keeping it from getting right out of control.
They have cracked down on SRS related surgeries because it was becoming trendy to have the surgery, not necessary.
Many teens where having orchidectomies to fit in, totally ridiculous.

[Rockheart]

That was pretty much the Conservative argument that I heard. The Con. M.P. was concerned that the change will end up with "boys" using the girls washrooms and will be upsetting for the girls!

Where do you draw the line?

Make a third set of bathrooms?
That is dumb for a such a small percentage of the population.

I don't want to see my tax dollars paying for this stuff for such a tiny portion of society.
I am already paying through the nose for real minorities.

What's the proof here?
If your parents are bringing you up as a girl?
What rights do your parents have to decide what sex you should be.

Kids are not supposed to have sexuality and I think some parents impose sexuality on them unfairly.
Kids before puberty should have to use the washroom of the sex they were born with.
No kid can understand the sexuality of it all so why confuse them all.

People themselves should decide what their sexuality is, not society or their parents.
Saying a four year old knows they is a girl is dumb.
The may like feminine things, play with dolls or like pink clothes.
None of these things are the signs of a transsexuals.

In my opinion a person should be able to grow up and discover their sexuality, not be coaxed into another sex.
Putting a person on hormone therapy to change sex before they fully mature is not safe for anyone.
And most like will shorten your life, you will also develop totally different than you were supposed to with some of your body not developing properly because of it.

Sexuality should be kept out of elementary schools period.

[Alexis]

I dont' mean to piss anyone off.

No one should get special rights because they want to live as a woman only for sexual pleasure or profit.
As I said, if you decide you want to live the rest of your life as a shemale with tits and cock and never have SRS,
then you are not a transsexual period. You are a crossdressing fetishist and still a man.
This is the truth, sorry.

Please tell me what should make you mad about what I said.
I know you have had some issues surrounding this but I stand by what I say.

Well..

uhhh.. ok..

I think everything except for what I quoted above is ok and I agree..

only 1 set of rights for everyone.. no special rights for anyone..

Now what I quoted above.. that raises my eyebrow buddy..

I've wanted to be a woman my entire life.. now I'm doing it..

And you're saying if I keep my dick I'm a crossdresser ?!?!?

Well.. I must say.. my instinctive reaction is to go tell you to fuck yourself..

However.. since you're supposed to be buying me dinner in Bangkok after I get my tits done in less than 5 weeks..

I'll let you off.. this time..

At this point in time.. I'm going to keep my private parts the way they are..

The hormones are doing a lot and the surgeries I have planned will do the rest..

I do not need to cut off my dick to vindicate myself as a girl..

I intend to be 100% passable as a female and not flaunt around as a tranny..

I'm always going to be a Diva though cuz that's just who I am..

[Rockheart]

Well..

uhhh.. ok..

I think everything except for what I quoted above is ok and I agree..

only 1 set of rights for everyone.. no special rights for anyone..

Now what I quoted above.. that raises my eyebrow buddy..

I've wanted to be a woman my entire life.. now I'm doing it..

And you're saying if I keep my dick I'm a crossdresser ?!?!?

Well.. I must say.. my instinctive reaction is to go tell you to fuck yourself..

However.. since you're supposed to be buying me dinner in Bangkok after I get my tits done in less than 5 weeks..

I'll let you off.. this time..

At this point in time.. I'm going to keep my private parts the way they are..

The hormones are doing a lot and the surgeries I have planned will do the rest..

I do not need to cut off my dick to vindicate myself as a girl..

I intend to be 100% passable as a female and not flaunt around as a tranny..

I'm always going to be a Diva though cuz that's just who I am..

I am saying if you decide to keep your dick you are man, not a transsexual.
Transsexuals want to be women with pussies.

So yes I would consider you a man living as a female in this sense, not a transsexual.
Transseuxals have SRS.
Some may call this a crossdresser, some will call it something else.
You people get far too offended at the word crossdresser when it has such a broad meaning.

I would respect your right to be treated as a female, but you are not a woman or a transsexual.
You are man with a cock that lives as woman.

Plain and simple.
Shemale is not a sex.
Male is a sex.
Female is a sex.
You cannot be both at the same time legally or otherwise.

If you are not in the process of having your cock removed and you should have no special rights as a Transgender.
My tax dollars shouldn't have to support every person that decides to be a shemale.
You can live all you want as a woman but legally you should still be considered a man.

I am sorry if you don't like it but you are fetishist.
You have even admitted it.
If you like your cock, your base sex is male.
You can be as passable as you want, but if you have a cock you are a man.
If you have no intention of SRS you are not a transsexual.

It is really really simple.

[Rockheart]

I just want to point this out:

The main things that make up sexuality in a person are 3 things.

Men

1. Testosterone
2. Penis
3. Male Brain

Women

1. Estrogen
2. Pussy
3. Female Brain

If you truly have a female brain you are going to want a pussy.
If you have a male brain you are going to want a cock.
Hormones can be artificially altered.

Transsexuals say they have a Female Brain and a Penis.
However a female brain does not feel right with a Penis.
So they get a pussy as fast as they can.

A Crossdresser can be defined many ways.

A man who Crosses over to live as a woman.
or
A man who Crosses back and forth to living as a woman.
Take your pick.

Be offended by ideas, not terms.

[alyssa1]

shame craig shame

Craig craig your steppin out of line. The validation you are making is totally false. I am chosing to get the surgery for my own personal reasons.So if i decided to keep my dick I am not a transexual"so what you are saying since i still have a dick i am not a transexual.. obviously you have never read anything on gender studies. The arguement you are making is misoganystic and transphobic. or maybe you have read dr Janice Raymonds transexual empire(transphobic writer). I will not responds to your little diagrams which obviously have no truth" do not get me started i am fairly educated in gender studies.

[Alexis]

Craig craig your steppin out of line. The validation you are making is totally false. I am chosing to get the surgery for my own personal reasons.So if i decided to keep my dick I am not a transexual"so what you are saying since i still have a dick i am not a transexual.. obviously you have never read anything on gender studies. The arguement you are making is misoganystic and transphobic. or maybe you have read dr Janice Raymonds transexual empire(transphobic writer). I will not responds to your little diagrams which obviously have no truth" do not get me started i am fairly educated in gender studies.

I'm hurt.. wow..

Not at you alyssa.. at crag..

If I had dont this when I was 18, Id' be a girl.. with a pussy..

I'm not 18.. I don't see how getting a pussy is going to validate anything for me now..

I'm every bit transgender and transsexual..

When I'm done my transition I'm going to have an "F" on my ID and Passport..

I'm still going to have a cock too..

ANd what your saying is stupid..

It means Transmen have the reverse.. If they don't have a dick then they're just crossdressers..??

I'm gonna have to stay out of this thread I think.. it's not the right time of the month..

[Alexis]

I am saying if you decide to keep your dick you are man, not a transsexual.
Transsexuals want to be women with pussies.

I am sorry if you don't like it but you are fetishist.
You have even admitted it.
If you like your cock, your base sex is male.
You can be as passable as you want, but if you have a cock you are a man.
If you have no intention of SRS you are not a transsexual.

It is really really simple.

I've been into BDSM since I was 14..

I've wanted to be a girl since before 4 years old..

So what about transsexual women that want to be men?

I was diagnosed by 2 of the best shrinks in Vancouver as having gender identity disorder when I was 18..

It's not really simple.. not at all..



Oh and just so you know.. top half SRS is SRS..

Facial Feminization Surgery.. is SRS..

I will have an F on my ID when I am done..

Oh and your tax dollars are not paying for my transition..

I am..

[Shyla Wild]

Crag

Sweetie....are you okay? I am not trying to be funny or sarcastic...but why all this hate sweetie? Well maybe not hate be you seem .... annoyed or pissed. Seriously....what gives?

I thought your computer got jacked.

[Alexis]

I think I'm going to pass on us meeting in Bangkok Crag...

I'll be a hormonal mess and I don't think it'll be appropriate..

[Shyla Wild]

This is a great speech by Dany Morin defending trans-people and their rights yesterday regarding Bill C-279.

Unfortunately, it is in french and therefore unless you speak french a lot of the message will be lost. For those of you that understand, thumbs up to Dany Morin.

Also, This Bill was introduced by Randall Garrison...this is his speech.