Transgender Bride Files Humans Rights Complaint

[OldMediGassed]

Interesting story out of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.

Transgender Bride Files Human Rights Complaint From CBC News Saskatoon

A transgender woman has filed a human rights complaint against a Saskatoon bridal shop.

Rohit Singh was at the Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission's office in Saskatoon Wednesday morning to file the complaint.

Earlier this month, Singh asked to try on an outfit at Jenny's Bridal Boutique. The store owner refused, she felt other people in the store would be uncomfortable with Singh trying on gowns. Singh believes she was discriminated against.

From what I've read, there's concern among the province's transgender community that the language in Saskatchewan's Human Rights Code is a bit vague. As I posted here, in the thread about the transgender Toronto Sun newspaper Sunshine Girl, Ontario's Human Rights Code -- following the passage of Toby's Law last year -- would not permit this discrimination.

Singh alleges staff at the store told her she would make customers uncomfortable, implying that she doesn't pass as female. That's another important part of the new legislation here, which protects gender identity (how Singh perceives herself) gender expression (how she presents herself). She does not have to be "passable" to avail herself of the right to live as a woman. In that respect, the story reminds me somewhat of the recently resurfaced Abercrombie and Fitch controversy, in which CEO Mike Jeffries commented:

?In every school there are the cool and popular kids, and then there are the not-so-cool kids,? Jeffries said in a 2006 Salon article. ?Candidly, we go after the cool kids. We go after the attractive all-American kid with a great attitude and a lot of friends. A lot of people don?t belong [in our clothes], and they can?t belong. Are we exclusionary? Absolutely.?

[Lucas_Grindhouse]

Long standing bias

I was recently working on a story about a monastery where men are transformed into shemales. I'm serious about making my characters as believable as possible. To this end, I researched some Bible passages, as it turned out, the same passages used to discriminate against homosexuals and transgenders, even women. Here's a few of the quotations:

Deutoronomy 22:5 A woman shall not wear a man?s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman?s cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

Could this be an example of how indoctrinated people are to fit people into one gender or another, to do so with such vigor as to refuse service to someone who doesn't go along with the program?


Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you (homosexuals). But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

So you can be cured of homosexuality?

Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

An abomination? Says who? Homosexuals are God's creation as much as any other person. How could it be that they are so imperfect as to be called abominable? Unless you prescribe to the nonsense that they can choose to be otherwise.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:23 This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man
Genesis 3:16-19 To the woman, for her sin, is condemned to a state of sorrow, and of subjugation? (goes on to talk about child-bearing having been made extra painful by God)

So women are not equal to men? Merely a function of them? Hogwash.

Genesis 2:18-22 And the Lord said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him? And the rib, which the lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

So the woman is just company and a beast of labour?

We haven't been treating each other very well and it's been going on a long time, under the guise of a holy doctrine. It's not too different in the other religions. That's why anti-discrimination laws have been passed. Without them, there would be no redress for women's rights and now for gay and transgender rights abuses.

Let her try on the over-priced dress. If she wants to get married in white, who can deny her? And this store-owner lost a sale to boot. He's the big loser.

Lucas

[Rockheart]

I would say if she was truly a bride and having a wedding soon, she should be allowed to try on dresses.
They shouldn't have to let anyone try on dresses just because they feel like it. These are very expensive items.

So what is stopping every crossdresser from coming in and trying on all the bridal dresses and leaving stains on them.
Where can they draw the line? How can they draw the line?
I would say that if the product is intended for women getting married, how do you know the intent of some one that comes in that appears to be a man. How does the store know if the person is a crossdresser or a transsexual? They don't.

I am all in favour of transgender rights, however I am tired of them exploding in the face of every single situation.
Treating people like garbage is one thing, but stuff like this could maybe be handled different.
Why does every fucking thing have to go to the human rights tribunal, It is retarded.
To me this would be an opportunity to go the competition and tell them what happened.
Possibly ask for a private fitting time.

This, of course, would not happen in Toronto or Montreal because people are used to this sort of thing.
There just isn't that many bridal shops in Saskatoon I imagine, and there is very few transsexuals.
It is pretty obvious that a transsexual will have some issues in a small place like Saskatoon, they should expect it.
Now when people see her they will quickly put up the closed sign.

In Thailand Transsexuals are very accepted everywhere.
Transsexuals are hired everywhere but they also have respect for other peoples feelings.
However if you are not passable, your employer expects you to dress down and appear as a boy or androgynous while working.
I don't find this too much to ask.
Some TS that are just starting out are down right scary looking when dressed, it is a fact, I am sorry to say.
There is no reason a business should have to hired someone who scares the hell out of alot of people.
This just does not fly in the service industry, specifically.
In Thailand everyone has alot more respect for each other than we do here.

In our society everyone is so fucking selfish.
Woe is me, look at me, I am not getting my way waaaaaa.
Since when did one fucking person become so much more important that others.
Why can't some recognize they are different and realize they may sometimes get treated different.
Maybe try meeting this misunderstanding with some understanding of their own.

There was another transsexual in Sask I saw on the news that was upset that she was not hired by some store.
This person was well over 6 feet very fat and didn't shave.
They threw on a moo moo declared themselves a woman.
That is fine, but they were not presentable enough to work in any business I own.
I shouldn't have to hire someone that is totally unpresentable to serve customers, no matter what.

It is getting to the point where there has to be more defined rules about this sort of thing.
If your id says male and stuff is meant for females, you should probably have to abstain.
The range of TS is just too big for every person to have to judge exactly what level of transgender-ism a certain person is at.
There is only Male and Female legally and you need to fall into one or the other.
How can we keep persecuting people for just not understanding your specific situation at your specific time in your life, how could they?

Most of the time shit is stirred up for no reason.
They could use the unisex washroom but they have to make a stink about using the women's anyhow.
If someone that looks like a man goes in to use a women's washroom, 99% of the time someone will call the police.
I just don't see the reason the issue needs to be pushed all the time.
Non-passable TS will always stand out, it is just a fact of life.

If a black person goes and lives in a town of all white people they will stand out
If a white person goes and lives in a town of all black people they will stand out.
This is human nature, people don't understand those who are different than them.

I am a white guy and I lived on an Indian reserve for a while once, I wasn't allowed to do anything.
I coudn't fish or hunt there, I couldn't go to the pool hall and could only go certain places with permission.
I was warned about talking to the women.
Other than my race I wasn't different than anyone, i was heavily discriminated against.
(I imagine a human right tribunal would roll on the floor laughing at my case)
However i understood, and fit in the best I could.
When the tables are turned people just get selfish and push their individual feelings against the masses.

[OldMediGassed]

I was recently working on a story about a monastery where men are transformed into shemales. I'm serious about making my characters as believable as possible. To this end, I researched some Bible passages, as it turned out, the same passages used to discriminate against homosexuals and transgenders, even women. Here's a few of the quotations:

I'm sure these are the oft-quoted passages. Being an Atheist, they don't work on me. I don't even bother trying to find the other passages in Scripture that counter the ones that you quoted because I don't live in Deuteronomy or Leviticus; I live in Toronto in 2013.

Could this be an example of how indoctrinated people are to fit people into one gender or another, to do so with such vigor as to refuse service to someone who doesn't go along with the program?

I think that's the core of the matter. Whether it's a male doing a drag show, a transgender female, or someone having same-sex sex -- all of these challenge traditional gender roles and defy the gender binary. I think that's why homophobes and transphobes constantly reference "choice" and "lifestyle" when discussing the LGBT community. To acknowledge that someone is born gay or trans would imply that was "God's plan." And after marriage is equalized, and gays and lesbians can serve in the military, and trans people can use the restroom without complaint -- all of which is happening in many places -- and the floods and pestilence don't come, that fundamentalist house of cards will begin to tumble.

Let her try on the over-priced dress. If she wants to get married in white, who can deny her? And this store-owner lost a sale to boot. He's the big loser.

I think, at this moment, execs in the bridal industry are trying to figure out how to turn a buck on this.

[Lucas_Grindhouse]

From Craig:
So what is stopping every crossdresser from coming in and trying on all the bridal dresses and leaving stains on them.
Where can they draw the line? How can they draw the line?
I would say that if the product is intended for women getting married, how do you know the intent of some one that comes in that appears to be a man. How does the store know if the person is a crossdresser or a transsexual? They don't.

I am all in favour of transgender rights, however I am tired of them exploding in the face of every single situation.
Treating people like garbage is one thing, but stuff like this could maybe be handled different.
Why does every fucking thing have to go to the human rights tribunal, It is retarded.
To me this would be an opportunity to go the competition and tell them what happened.
Possibly ask for a private fitting time.

Craig brings up a good point. Bridal gowns are expensive items, often fragile. It isn't like going into Levi's to try on a pair of jeans. Bridal shops are meant for brides-to-be. If cross-dressers came into these shops just to try on the elaborate dresses, it would be well within the shop-owner's right to refuse them access.

I went back to the original post by The Doctor and read the CBC news blurb. In this case, it does seem this person is a bride-to-be, judging not only on the basis of the title of the article but also by the short video attached to the article.

I tried to see it from the shop owner's perspective. This person dresses as a woman but they appear to have done little in the way of transition. The pictures and video are of poor quality but it does appear she has a full beard (shadow is visible in both picture and video). The person does not have breasts. The person's features are distinctly male.

So how is the shop owner to know she is indeed a bride-to-be? Traditionally, her fiancee (shown in the video) would not accompany her to the fitting and therefore, if she was alone, there may not have been anyone there who could vouch for her intention to become a blushing bride. I can imagine the shop owner might have been less than likely to treat her visit as a typical one.

What I take away from this is we don't have all the facts. We don't have the shop owner's response for instance. CBC would have been well advised to include the owner's statement in the article. We don't know what happened in the shop - the article doesn't relate that.

I still maintain, t-girl in early transition or not, if she wants to get married, she ought to have the right. If this shop owner was too hasty to make a decision, I'm sure the article has netted her many other offers from the competition.

As for transgenders making a fuss about every little thing, I don't believe this is a question of believing themselves more important than anyone. I believe this is a continuation of a battle which began, in North America at least, with the struggle for human rights, including women's rights, the rights of racial minorities, and more recently gay and lesbian rights. Transgenders are people too and deserve to be treated the same as any other people. This struggle has required focusing on specific incidents, infringements on these rights, in order to push for overall recognition.

Craig, you know more about the situation in Thailand, having been there and experiencing it first hand. What I do know is that it is a Buddhist culture which is, by a very long way, more accepting than our own culture. The fight for human rights will show a different face here.

I agree with you, Craig, that seemingly small slights against a minority result in court cases and media coverage when the general population would suffer greater injustices without a mention. We just have to be patient. As we reach for equality, we admit inequality. In good time, this will settle down.

Lucas

[Rockheart]

From Craig:
So what is stopping every crossdresser from coming in and trying on all the bridal dresses and leaving stains on them.
Where can they draw the line? How can they draw the line?
I would say that if the product is intended for women getting married, how do you know the intent of some one that comes in that appears to be a man. How does the store know if the person is a crossdresser or a transsexual? They don't.

I am all in favour of transgender rights, however I am tired of them exploding in the face of every single situation.
Treating people like garbage is one thing, but stuff like this could maybe be handled different.
Why does every fucking thing have to go to the human rights tribunal, It is retarded.
To me this would be an opportunity to go the competition and tell them what happened.
Possibly ask for a private fitting time.

Craig brings up a good point. Bridal gowns are expensive items, often fragile. It isn't like going into Levi's to try on a pair of jeans. Bridal shops are meant for brides-to-be. If cross-dressers came into these shops just to try on the elaborate dresses, it would be well within the shop-owner's right to refuse them access.

I went back to the original post by The Doctor and read the CBC news blurb. In this case, it does seem this person is a bride-to-be, judging not only on the basis of the title of the article but also by the short video attached to the article.

I tried to see it from the shop owner's perspective. This person dresses as a woman but they appear to have done little in the way of transition. The pictures and video are of poor quality but it does appear she has a full beard (shadow is visible in both picture and video). The person does not have breasts. The person's features are distinctly male.

So how is the shop owner to know she is indeed a bride-to-be? Traditionally, her fiancee (shown in the video) would not accompany her to the fitting and therefore, if she was alone, there may not have been anyone there who could vouch for her intention to become a blushing bride. I can imagine the shop owner might have been less than likely to treat her visit as a typical one.

What I take away from this is we don't have all the facts. We don't have the shop owner's response for instance. CBC would have been well advised to include the owner's statement in the article. We don't know what happened in the shop - the article doesn't relate that.

I still maintain, t-girl in early transition or not, if she wants to get married, she ought to have the right. If this shop owner was too hasty to make a decision, I'm sure the article has netted her many other offers from the competition.

As for transgenders making a fuss about every little thing, I don't believe this is a question of believing themselves more important than anyone. I believe this is a continuation of a battle which began, in North America at least, with the struggle for human rights, including women's rights, the rights of racial minorities, and more recently gay and lesbian rights. Transgenders are people too and deserve to be treated the same as any other people. This struggle has required focusing on specific incidents, infringements on these rights, in order to push for overall recognition.

Craig, you know more about the situation in Thailand, having been there and experiencing it first hand. What I do know is that it is a Buddhist culture which is, by a very long way, more accepting than our own culture. The fight for human rights will show a different face here.

I agree with you, Craig, that seemingly small slights against a minority result in court cases and media coverage when the general population would suffer greater injustices without a mention. We just have to be patient. As we reach for equality, we admit inequality. In good time, this will settle down.

Lucas

We in our society have been conditioned to cry and whine to get our way, rather than tackle the situation logically.
Essentially we act like little babies who don't get their way, because it has worked all along.
(We all do it)

In Thailand they are brought up to respect each other and society as a whole, partly due to Buddhism.
Just try having a tantrum in Thailand if you don't get your little way, people will just ignore you.
Children have respect there because the are brought up this way, they don't have a false sense of entitlement.

If she truly wants to try on the dress, she could suspect there could be a problem and offer an alternate solution.
(Especially in Saskatchewan for gosh sakes?!)
Instead we, in our society, are conditioned to run to whatever petty authority we think will fix the issue.
Then usually thousands of dollars of taxpayers money and everyone's time is wasted for little purpose.
What will happen? She will get to go and try on dresses by basically holding the owner over a barrel?
Is that how you want things to go?

In every situation there is the easy and cheap way, or the long drawn out expensive way.
Why no one thinks their time is more valuable than this is beyond me?

Creating a scene because you are different than everyone else does not happen often in Thailand.
People there first think of others before they worry about their particular LITTLE problem.
What about the crippled girls who will never get married and cannot try on a wedding dress if they try.

This girl is lucky enough to be able to live the way she chooses, have a boyfriend and possibly get married.
Many people in life don't even get this chance. She isn't starving and she isn't being abused or attacked.

To me she has a great life so far, what is the big fucking deal that one stupid store wouldn't let her try a dress on one time.
People in this country get more rights than anyone and many people come here just to take advantage of it,
and generally abuse it. The only person that ends up paying is taxpayers like me.
Save the fucking big spectacle for something that really matters, not over some clothes.
The glass always seems half empty, why not look at life like it is half full.

I just saw on the news Abercrombie and Fitch and other stores don't make clothes for fat people, so fat people could never try on their clothing. If you go into their stores they will tell you that you are too big to try on their stuff.
Isn't a fat person just as important than a transgender person?

To me it is just starting to be bullying.
Bully Donald Trump until he lets you into his stupid little contest, even though it really makes little sense etc. etc.
Civil rights like public services and transportation is one thing, but forcing your life and beliefs on others is another thing.
In transgenderism there is no clear lines.
Any male can throw on a frock and say they are transgendered.
How can you hold businesses accountable when they do not know how to react, or what your true state is.

There is countless places on earth to try on Wedding dresses.

[OldMediGassed]

Bridal gowns are indeed expensive items. So are cars. I've test-driven cars I didn't buy. No salesperson has ever demanded proof that I intended to buy the car I looked at.

I don't know, Lucas, that the bride's intended always accompanies her for a fitting. (Remember, in Canada, the fiance could be male, female or trans.) I don't know that bridal shops can always confirm that a female trying on a gown is indeed engaged to be married, or that she is, in fact, a cisgender female.

Note the following from the CBC article, regarding the process with the SK Human Rights Commission:

Once a complaint is filed with the commission, both sides are offered the chance to mediate their dispute. If that doesn't work, the complaint will go to a hearing.

This is still a molehill, not quite a mountain, yet. The retailer does indeed have rights. Such a mediation would provide an opportunity for both parties to express their points of view. Given that we are talking about Saskatoon, not a larger city, and that trans rights have only recently come into the larger conversation, I suspect the retailer does not perceive that their actions have caused injury. Another part of that conversation will be whether retailers such as this can provide "reasonable accommodation" to a transgender customer.

There is only Male and Female legally and you need to fall into one or the other.

Changes to the Human Rights Codes in Ontario and federally would suggest otherwise. Months ago, The American Psychiatric Association dropped "Gender Identity Disorder" from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, as they did over four decades ago with homosexuality. The gender binary is on the way out. Under the transgender umbrella term are people who are born intersex -- sharing some combination of both male and female sex traits. Globally, intersex people are as common as those with red hair -- one percent of the world population -- if I understand the statistics correctly. One percent or more isn't an aberration; it's a pattern -- that's just intersex.

The discussion of the pass-ability of trans people is somewhat disturbing. What if the retailer were to turn away women they deemed unattractive or that they thought were men? Not all women -- transgender or cisgender -- can look like many of the transgender women on this site, nor do they necessarily aspire to. Technically, cross-dressers would be covered under legislation that protects gender expression. The Ontario Code protects gender identity and gender expression; the federal code, recently passed, protects only gender identity. I have no idea what the code says in Saskatchewan. As of the moment, I can think of nothing that would prevent a male crossed dressed as female from walking into any dress shop, and there are many shops out there that are happy for the business.

On a related note, I'm intrigued by the characterization trans people using a bridal shop. Surely, there are natural born women with obesity, hair loss, even facial hair. Should they be turned away? That's why I referenced the Abercrombie and Fitch story in my post.

The thing about rights is that they expand and move forward. In my lifetime, and I'm only in my fifties, people would be publicly embarrassed and put in jail for producing a publication like this website or ShemaleCanada. In print form, they could not have been distributed through the mail without inviting the wrath of the Postmaster. No advertiser would dare touch them. Even scholarly works on gender diversity might be subject to censorship.

[Rockheart]

Bridal gowns are indeed expensive items. So are cars. I've test-driven cars I didn't buy. No salesperson has ever demanded proof that I intended to buy the car I looked at.

I don't know, Lucas, that the bride's intended always accompanies her for a fitting. (Remember, in Canada, the fiance could be male, female or trans.) I don't know that bridal shops can always confirm that a female trying on a gown is indeed engaged to be married, or that she is, in fact, a cisgender female.

Note the following from the CBC article, regarding the process with the SK Human Rights Commission:



This is still a molehill, not quite a mountain, yet. The retailer does indeed have rights. Such a mediation would provide an opportunity for both parties to express their points of view. Given that we are talking about Saskatoon, not a larger city, and that trans rights have only recently come into the larger conversation, I suspect the retailer does not perceive that their actions have caused injury. Another part of that conversation will be whether retailers such as this can provide "reasonable accommodation" to a transgender customer.



Changes to the Human Rights Codes in Ontario and federally would suggest otherwise. Months ago, The American Psychiatric Association dropped "Gender Identity Disorder" from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, as they did over four decades ago with homosexuality. The gender binary is on the way out. Under the transgender umbrella term are people who are born intersex -- sharing some combination of both male and female sex traits. Globally, intersex people are as common as those with red hair -- one percent of the world population -- if I understand the statistics correctly. One percent or more isn't an aberration; it's a pattern -- that's just intersex.

The discussion of the pass-ability of trans people is somewhat disturbing. What if the retailer were to turn away women they deemed unattractive or that they thought were men? Not all women -- transgender or cisgender -- can look like many of the transgender women on this site, nor do they necessarily aspire to. Technically, cross-dressers would be covered under legislation that protects gender expression. The Ontario Code protects gender identity and gender expression; the federal code, recently passed, protects only gender identity. I have no idea what the code says in Saskatchewan. As of the moment, I can think of nothing that would prevent a male crossed dressed as female from walking into any dress shop, and there are many shops out there that are happy for the business.

On a related note, I'm intrigued by the characterization trans people using a bridal shop. Surely, there are natural born women with obesity, hair loss, even facial hair. Should they be turned away? That's why I referenced the Abercrombie and Fitch story in my post.

The thing about rights is that they expand and move forward. In my lifetime, and I'm only in my fifties, people would be publicly embarrassed and put in jail for producing a publication like this website or ShemaleCanada. In print form, they could not have been distributed through the mail without inviting the wrath of the Postmaster. No advertiser would dare touch them. Even scholarly works on gender diversity might be subject to censorship.

The fact is, everyone is intersexed, to start defining the intricacies of how people want to identify is dumb.
I am 32% transgender and you are 83%, I guess I have to step aside.
If the human rights code gets to this, I am moving out of Canada for sure.
When your rights are based on how transgender you are and not how human you are, is crazy.
Anyone on earth can claim transgenderism, period.
No one can disprove transgenderism.

So you want to be girl but you want to keep your penis?
I really have a hard time with this one, modern mumbo jumbo.

Sex is not a basic human right, much of this is about sexual expression, not human rights.
Being born with sex organs different than what you think is only a set back in an individuals mind.
More transgenders are living a sexual lifestyle than actually having a condition, plain and simple.

I want to see my tax dollars feeding the poor, housing the homeless and protecting the innocent.
Wasting it on wedding dresses for anyone it fucking retarded.
Save your whining for something really important.

How about a handicap ramp so crippled people can get to any bathroom.
Not a perfectly able person whining because they have the choice of 2 bathrooms but have to be in the third.
In the end people just have to piss and shit, we all have the right to piss and shit.
if you are given a toilet, use it for gosh sakes.
If you go and shit in the unisex bathroom, what is the problem?

You are right if this keeps up in a few years this country will be unlivable.
Someone will always be the minority for whatever reason, where does it stop.
When every single person is a minority for their own little reason, then we will all be equal right?

No worries about shemalecanada, the rights of sex workers will have to butt up against the right of Transgenders.
Who will win? The transgender sex workers? All sex workers?

The only people right now that are not minorities are Straight, Non-transgender, English speaking, Caucasian males with no latin, asian, african or native descent.
To me it starting to not add up.
Just a bunch of selfish individuals bending a great society.
Everyone in Canada is me, me, me, poor, poor, me.

This all started with basic respect for all and has balloon into bullshit.
People are now being rated on how may problems they have, the more problems the more important they are.

I would think ugly peoples rights out weigh the rights of everyone.
I am ugly and I can never get laid, woe is me.
Transgenders and everyone discriminate against me by not having sex with me.

[Lucas_Grindhouse]

I don't know, Craig...

I get what you're saying, I really do. Everyone is self-centered and the government is propping up the minorities until it seems the majority is disadvantaged.

I'm a white guy too, Craig. I don't think the minority issue we are discussing here is the biggest problem we have. I think the planet is going to hell, being pillaged for the remaining natural resources. That's what's going to kill us. However, does that mean we shouldn't try to correct injustice when we see it? I don't see the harm in people trying to fix the system. It means they still believe the system works.

If the shop owner refused service to an inebriated person (just an example), would the shop be subject to legal action? What about a person who smelled bad? Or a person who had open sores on their body? You have a point when you say her claim to being transgendered should not create such a fuss.

This is a drop in the bucket so why take action?

To turn your argument around, I might suggest we all act in our own self interest. We do the things we feel will result in our own personal survival and fulfillment. There are the occasional instances of heroism or kindness where others are put before ourselves.

What I'm saying is that you are being vocal about this because you feel disadvantaged unjustly by it and I could well be vocal were I to feel disadvantaged unjustly. There ends up being a cacophony of voices: me me me me me. Unless we are affected personally by something, it's easy to say we wish there could be peace and quiet.

I've traveled a bit although never to Thailand. You are right to say we are spoiled brats (paraphrasing) here. Maybe things would be different if we knew what hard times really were. It does tend to show up how detached we are from the problems of the world when we build a court case around a wedding dress.

What's the answer? It's beyond me.

Lucas