Post-OP : To Stealth or Not to Stealth That is the Question?

[TSFantasia]

When a T-Girl has her SRS done is she better off starting over where people don't know her and begin a new life as a woman without the "T" added or mentioned? Or just carry on in her existing community? Where she has the support of those who have accepted her transition but also those who will always point her out as "Hey see that woman? She used to be a dude!" or even worse "Hey see that chick? That's a dude!"?

If a T-Girl escort completes her SRS and wants to continue escorting. Is she better off to continue on the T-Girl sites only as a Post-Op T-Girl, work the female escort side or play both sides of the coin to her advantage?

For the hobbyists do you have any interest in seeing a post-op girl or if you are going to see a woman with a vagina would you prefer natural women with "homegrown" vaginas?

[TSFantasia]

Well I guess the no responses answers that question...lol. So I will answer. My feelings on it I think its better to be accepted for who you are as a trans woman pre-op, post-op or non-op. Better to be close to supportive family and friends and already established careers than to uproot and start over some where else. Why would a person want to have to make up a big myriad of lies and fabricate a fake life to hide their identity and past? Some people would figure it out or suspect it no matter how "passable" the girl is.

I think if the girl wants to stay in the escort business and she is very passable she could work both sides of the market as a post-op TS and as a female. Might be a good idea to have a good pair of Shyla's attack dogs or bodyguard in cases some narrow minded bigot clues in and freaks out. This working both sides would help make up for the loss of income from the t-girl side. The fact that she loves anal sex could be a huge selling point on the female side as there are still a lot of GGs who don't. And she should market herself as a dominatrix as most guys seeking them are looking to be "forced" and humiliated into receiving anal sex with strap-ons.

[cobbler]

Just saw this...

I think it would be foolhardy for a post-op woman to try and sell herself as a genetic woman. Aside from the potential for attacks by knuckle draggers, it's dishonest.
I swing both ways and have no issues with seeing a post-op woman, but I'd like to know before she drops her panties.
An ad should be honest and state all relevant information. Then the customer can make an informed choice.

[TSFantasia]

I think it would be foolhardy for a post-op woman to try and sell herself as a genetic woman. Aside from the potential for attacks by knuckle draggers, it's dishonest.
I swing both ways and have no issues with seeing a post-op woman, but I'd like to know before she drops her panties.
An ad should be honest and state all relevant information. Then the customer can make an informed choice.

Well I disagree we state we are T-girls, TG, TS women now for the obvious reason that we still have a penis. Most of us identify as women
in everyday life have legal name and gender changes on our IDs so there is no reason to add the "T" or to reveal it to anyone other than for health care reasons. This suggests that we are still inferior and in a sub-category to "real" women. Jenna Talackova dealt with that with the whole Miss Universe Canada pageant drama. And there are "Knuckle dragger" creeps that GG escorts have to protect themselves from too!
Even now if I get pulled over by cops they look at my DL it says "F" am I not being honest? Does he have a right to accuse me of lying if he detects any male characteristics about me? No he would be asking a lot of GGs this too..lol...and he would be out of a job very quickly. When I go to a health clinic "F" is on my health card so that what they write down. At least if it has nothing to do with a down below exam.

[toban]

Trickery just can?t work: so you'd be better to be up front!

I think it would be foolhardy for a post-op woman to try and sell herself as a genetic woman. Aside from the potential for attacks by knuckle draggers, it's dishonest.
I swing both ways and have no issues with seeing a post-op woman, but I'd like to know before she drops her panties.
An ad should be honest and state all relevant information. Then the customer can make an informed choice.

Cobbler, I agree completely with your position. Despite today’s great advances in surgical techniques there are certain physical and chemical changes no surgeon can alter with his scalpel. Sooner or later these eccentricities will call into questions a former trans' claim to be genetically female thus making her out to be a common fake!! Better to be honest than to be a phony!

Well I disagree we state we are T-girls, TG, TS women now for the obvious reason that we still have a penis.COLOR="#FF0000"]Most of us identify as women
in everyday life have legal name and gender changes on our IDs so there is no reason to add the "T" or to reveal it to anyone other than for health care reasons. [/COLOR]This suggests that we are still inferior and in a sub-category to "real" women. - - - - - -- - - -

While there may be some paperwork that signifies that you are officially FEMALE there are always traces of the surgical manipulations that made you so!

Furthermore, any real guy who gets right down there will be more than able to distinguish the visual and chemical differences between real and man-made, e.g. that inside-out penis-skin vagina is not going to possess the same musculature as the vagina [science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/vagina2.htmCached] nor will it be able to secrete the same substances as the real deal and because of the absence of the many other secretions normally produced by the non-existent female glands in your essentially male body all those tasty and odoriferous things that draw the male nose to the female pubes and so tantalize the male tongue are not going to be able to do their jobs!

Anyone who has had a female dog or cat in heat will know how important and how powerful those scents can be, attracting males fro miles away. Of course humans do not go into "heat" as do animals but that animalistic attraction of males to females by scent/taste is still there and operative.

[TSFantasia]

WOW The Trans/Homophobic Bigotry Finally Comes Out!

Cobbler, I agree completely with your position. Despite today’s great advances in surgical techniques there are certain physical and chemical changes no surgeon can alter with his scalpel. Sooner or later these eccentricities will call into questions a former trans' claim to be genetically female thus making her out to be a common fake!! Better to be honest than to be a phony!




While there may be some paperwork that signifies that you are officially FEMALE there are always traces of the surgical manipulations that made you so!

Furthermore, any real guy who gets right down there will be more than able to distinguish the visual and chemical differences between real and man-made, e.g. that inside-out penis-skin vagina is not going to possess the same musculature as the vagina [science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/vagina2.htmCached] nor will it be able to secrete the same substances as the real deal and because of the absence of the many other secretions normally produced by the non-existent female glands in your essentially male body all those tasty and odoriferous things that draw the male nose to the female pubes and so tantalize the male tongue are not going to be able to do their jobs!

Anyone who has had a female dog or cat in heat will know how important and how powerful those scents can be, attracting males fro miles away. Of course humans do not go into "heat" as do animals but that animalistic attraction of males to females by scent/taste is still there and operative.

Well good to know that deep down that you think TG/TS women are fakes & phonies and regardless of living with female emotions, thoughts, personalities, mannerisms, and gender identity that they will always be so in your books. And that bio women with implants, nose jobs, chin & cheeks implants, lip injections and augmentations, tummy tucks, vaginal tucks, liposuction, etc. etc. are the "real deal" !

GG escorts don't all allow cunnilingus so girls can limit what she does or does not allow in sessions. It doesn't take a fishy smelling pussy to arouse a man as we have all found out just looks and body will suffice.

But thanks for the ripping through all the "we are not gay" bullshit because the guys seeing T-girls are seeing them as women And this is the BOTTOM LINE if you are a male having sex with another male dressed up as female (cross dresser, drag queen) or surgically enhanced to look female you are in fact GAY. Thanks for clearing up what I already KNOW. LMAO

BTW no one advertises "genetic woman" on female escort ads...it's just female...no distinction required as to how you got there

[Tia Phoenixx]

When a T-Girl has her SRS done is she better off starting over where people don't know her and begin a new life as a woman without the "T" added or mentioned? Or just carry on in her existing community? Where she has the support of those who have accepted her transition but also those who will always point her out as "Hey see that woman? She used to be a dude!" or even worse "Hey see that chick? That's a dude!"?

If a T-Girl escort completes her SRS and wants to continue escorting. Is she better off to continue on the T-Girl sites only as a Post-Op T-Girl, work the female escort side or play both sides of the coin to her advantage?

For the hobbyists do you have any interest in seeing a post-op girl or if you are going to see a woman with a vagina would you prefer natural women with "homegrown" vaginas?

Remember 8 years ago when I started escorting, all natural with no tits? Everybody...err....mostly other girls mocked me since they thought I was less pretty than them without tits.

I proved them wrong. Now, you can see the label "all natural tgirl" all over the internet, even in porn.
I, for sure, one of the very few who, have successfully promoted this label over the years.

Now, it's again a challenge to prove that post op is NOT less woman, less sexual and less attractive than cis woman.
As i mentioned in another thread, if we undergo SRS with one of the top surgeons in the world, our "neo" vagina is actually tighter and looking better than most natural vagina. We even customize the look and the dept of it...seriously.
I've already started choosing the best look for mine!

There are so many "public" secrets where the most popular girls in the sex related clubs somewhere in Thailand, Malaysia and the Philippines are actually post op tgirls. But people know them as cis woman, except few who know their past.

I won;t do that. I will continue working as Tia Phoenixx, even after having the SRS.

As Cobbler, Toban and you have mentioned earlier, I'm all with you guys.

can;t wait in few years...but first, i have to make myself prettier...errrr and sexier for the preparation to become a post op sex bomb lol !!

This is one of my New Year resolution for 2014

last but not the least: be confident. Sex appeal is partly innate. We are born with it.
Just look at me: I was popular as a boy escort not long ago, now popular as tgirl escort and soon will be (hopefully) popular as a post op/woman.

However, we all agree that life is unfair. My case might not be everybody's case.

But don't give up trying to improve ourselves to the better anyway!

[TSFantasia]

Remember 8 years ago when I started escorting, all natural with no tits? Everybody...err....mostly other girls mocked me since they thought I was less pretty than them without tits.

I proved them wrong. Now, you can see the label "all natural tgirl" all over the internet, even in porn.
I, for sure, one of the very few who, have successfully promoted this label over the years.

Now, it's again a challenge to prove that post op is NOT less woman, less sexual and less attractive than cis woman.
As i mentioned in another thread, if we undergo SRS with one of the top surgeons in the world, our "neo" vagina is actually tighter and looking better than most natural vagina. We even customize the look and the dept of it...seriously.
I've already started choosing the best look for mine!

There are so many "public" secrets where the most popular girls in the sex related clubs somewhere in Thailand, Malaysia and the Philippines are actually post op tgirls. But people know them as cis woman, except few who know their past.

I won;t do that. I will continue working as Tia Phoenixx, even after having the SRS.

As Cobbler, Toban and you have mentioned earlier, I'm all with you guys.

can;t wait in few years...but first, i have to make myself prettier...errrr and sexier for the preparation to become a post op sex bomb lol !!

This is one of my New Year resolution for 2014

last but not the least: be confident. Sex appeal is partly innate. We are born with it.
Just look at me: I was popular as a boy escort not long ago, now popular as tgirl escort and soon will be (hopefully) popular as a post op/woman.

However, we all agree that life is unfair. My case might not be everybody's case.

But don't give up trying to improve ourselves to the better anyway!

Thanks for being politically correct Tia but I am NOT in agreement with Cobbler or Toban as their protest is not over the post-op woman's safety it is that she is a liar, a fake , a phony, and cannot compare to a genetic woman so please stay in your sub-standard category

[toban]

Stealth implies underhandedness!

Well good to know that deep down that you think TG/TS women are fakes & phonies and regardless of living with female emotions, thoughts, personalities, mannerisms, and gender identity that they will always be so in your books. And that bio women with implants, nose jobs, chin & cheeks implants, lip injections and augmentations, tummy tucks, vaginal tucks, liposuction, etc. etc. are the "real deal" !

GG escorts don't all allow cunnilingus so girls can limit what she does or does not allow in sessions. It doesn't take a fishy smelling pussy to arouse a man as we have all found out just looks and body will suffice.

But thanks for the ripping through all the "we are not gay" bullshit because the guys seeing T-girls are seeing them as women And this is the BOTTOM LINE if you are a male having sex with another male dressed up as female (cross dresser, drag queen) or surgically enhanced to look female you are in fact GAY. Thanks for clearing up what I already KNOW. LMAO

BTW no one advertises "genetic woman" on female escort ads...it's just female...no distinction required as to how you got there

Hey Fantasia, please don’t put words in my mouth! I said nothing in that post about my thoughts or beliefs about Tg’s. I never said nor implied what you are claiming here! I simply point out to you the physical FACTS that are easily distinguishable by anyone inclined to look for them. You must accept that to go in stealth is to invite inspection and verification of authenticity!

To go in stealth means that you are going surreptitiously as someone you are not. So if you are going to advertise and go in STEALTH as a GG (female) then you are going as someone other than yourself - I must ask, why would you resort to that?? Isn’t the reason really because you are unsure you’ll be accepted as yourself?

By so saying then, are you not admitting you feel you are different? And then even you yourself in fact, ask the question about the propriety of going in STEALTH. You are asking about the proptiety of going as someone you are not! Is the meaning of Stealth not Sneaky?, Surreptitious?, Underhanded?

[TSFantasia]

Cobbler, I agree completely with your position. Despite today’s great advances in surgical techniques there are certain physical and chemical changes no surgeon can alter with his scalpel. Sooner or later these eccentricities will call into questions a former trans' claim to be genetically female thus making her out to be a common fake!! Better to be honest than to be a phony!




While there may be some paperwork that signifies that you are officially FEMALE there are always traces of the surgical manipulations that made you so!

Furthermore, any real guy who gets right down there will be more than able to distinguish the visual and chemical differences between real and man-made, e.g. that inside-out penis-skin vagina is not going to possess the same musculature as the vagina [science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/vagina2.htmCached] nor will it be able to secrete the same substances as the real deal and because of the absence of the many other secretions normally produced by the non-existent female glands in your essentially male body all those tasty and odoriferous things that draw the male nose to the female pubes and so tantalize the male tongue are not going to be able to do their jobs!

Anyone who has had a female dog or cat in heat will know how important and how powerful those scents can be, attracting males fro miles away. Of course humans do not go into "heat" as do animals but that animalistic attraction of males to females by scent/taste is still there and operative.

Hey Fantasia, please don’t put words in my mouth! I said nothing in that post about my thoughts or beliefs about Tg’s. I never said nor implied what you are claiming here! I simply point out to you the physical FACTS that are easily distinguishable by anyone inclined to look for them. You must accept that to go in stealth is to invite inspection and verification of authenticity!

To go in stealth means that you are going surreptitiously as someone you are not. So if you are going to advertise and go in STEALTH as a GG (female) then you are going as someone other than yourself - I must ask, why would you resort to that?? Isn’t the reason really because you are unsure you’ll be accepted as yourself?

By so saying then, are you not admitting you feel you are different? And then even you yourself in fact, ask the question about the propriety of going in STEALTH. You are asking about the proptiety of going as someone you are not! Is the meaning of Stealth not Sneaky?, Surreptitious?, Underhanded?

Well its pretty clear to me what you said."former trans' claim to be genetically female thus making her out to be a common fake!! Better to be honest than to be a phony! While there may be some paperwork that signifies that you are officially FEMALE there are always traces of the surgical manipulations that made you so! "
That you are attracted to TG/TSs there is no doubt. That you see them as men pretending to be female through surgical enhancements and in a sub-category inferior to genetic women with our "inside-out penis-skin vaginas", our " non-existent female glands in your essentially male body" is also pretty clear.

My idea of "stealth" is more in non-disclosure like a Jew, who looks like other Europeans in Nazi Germany would not easily disclose that fact. Or non-disclosure when you know it will make you a target of discrimination and archaic intolerant views.

I don't think any guys are doing thorough inspections of their female escorts to determine whether they are in fact genetic females or post-op "trannies". Could many post-op girls pull this off maybe not, but for those who can there is no need to disclose their origins as again the issue is not trying to argue or present ourselves as "genetic" women just simple as female and women.

You may have a point about the smell and taste of vaginal fluids. I do know that my own sweat and urine odours have changed dramatically since being on hormones so I'm sure those who have the "self-lubricating" option SRS procedure done would have similar changes to their vaginal secretions.

There is a highly reviewed female escort here in Regina ,who only operates as a female escort and does fairly well., she is post-op. No I won't give her name. Lol.

[TSFantasia]

So Anyways That Is a NO & a NO Vote.

Ok Cobbler and Toban so the post-op women are inferior and just men with surgical alterations comments aside. I will take that as a NO a post-op girl (oops sorry "trannie")should not operate as a female escort. And a NO as men who are interested in T-Girls that have dicks you would not go see a post-op girl for her inferior "inside-out-penis-skin" vagina. So we've eliminated her potential straight male clients and her trans-attracted clients and where does that leave her? Working at McDonald's or Timmies? But only if she doesn't fake being a pretty GG attendant. LOL just send us our noose or lethal dose of poison now. Thanks.

[Tia Phoenixx]

Thanks for being politically correct Tia but I am NOT in agreement with Cobbler or Toban as their protest is not over the post-op woman's safety it is that she is a liar, a fake , a phony, and cannot compare to a genetic woman so please stay in your sub-standard category

Toban and Cobbler want the post ops to be honest and I agree, i thought you agree too? NO? O well, I assume you do agree with at least that part.

I won't say that I'm a cis woman, though i'm indeed a woman but not naturally born woman..a different kind of woman..a post op to be more precise..and I want to prove the world that being a post op is sexy and attractive too.

Gosh...now i feel like a post op already lol.

Right Alyssa?

I can't wait to meet you in Toronto girl, please pm me your cell number hon

[Tia Phoenixx]

Cobbler, I agree completely with your position. Despite today’s great advances in surgical techniques there are certain physical and chemical changes no surgeon can alter with his scalpel. Sooner or later these eccentricities will call into questions a former trans' claim to be genetically female thus making her out to be a common fake!! Better to be honest than to be a phony!




While there may be some paperwork that signifies that you are officially FEMALE there are always traces of the surgical manipulations that made you so!

Furthermore, any real guy who gets right down there will be more than able to distinguish the visual and chemical differences between real and man-made, e.g. that inside-out penis-skin vagina is not going to possess the same musculature as the vagina [science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/vagina2.htmCached] nor will it be able to secrete the same substances as the real deal and because of the absence of the many other secretions normally produced by the non-existent female glands in your essentially male body all those tasty and odoriferous things that draw the male nose to the female pubes and so tantalize the male tongue are not going to be able to do their jobs!

Anyone who has had a female dog or cat in heat will know how important and how powerful those scents can be, attracting males fro miles away. Of course humans do not go into "heat" as do animals but that animalistic attraction of males to females by scent/taste is still there and operative.

Technology, plastic surgery in this regards. nowadays does wonderful things..something almost miraculous.

Have you been to South East Asia and see some post ops overthere, either in Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia or the Philippines Toban?

Some of them are so passable, you won't believe that they used to be a guy.
Not only passable, some of them are much better looking than cis women.

Nevertheless, i agree with your statement that it is pretty challenging to be 100% passable.
Btw, i think 100% passable is boring anyway.

I don't want to have 20% body fat on my body once i become a post op. I will do my best to keep my body trim and athletic as now.
I like my strong jawline, my height, and my athletic body. Those things are actually pretty "manly", but i personally think, that things that make me unique and attractive.

therefore, as post ops, we don;t have to be 100% passable. I would say 80-90% passable is good.

[toban]

Ok Cobbler and Toban so the post-op women are inferior and just men with surgical alterations comments aside. I will take that as a NO a post-op girl (oops sorry "trannie")should not operate as a female escort. And a NO as men who are interested in T-Girls that have dicks you would not go see a post-op girl for her inferior "inside-out-penis-skin" vagina. So we've eliminated her potential straight male clients and her trans-attracted clients and where does that leave her? Working at McDonald's or Timmies? But only if she doesn't fake being a pretty GG attendant. LOL just send us our noose or lethal dose of poison now. Thanks.

The above nonsense does not deserve response.

Geez, Fantasia, you are impossible to argue with. I had tried to point out to you the some pitfalls that could be encountered by your going “Stealth”. Rather than deal with the possinle realities of doing so, you choose to attack the messenger {ME} for having the audacity to even mention them. You have misconstued most everything I stated. Reread my post please, with the following in mind.

1. In my post what I pointed out was that if you go in Stealth and are found to be other than what you claim to be then you will be marked as a phony! I did not say you were a phony, I said you'd be marked as such!

2. If you are the real deal you can not go in stealth. In my post what I said was that if you were to go in STEALTH you are already an imposter, not because I said so, but because you have been modified to become so. Think about that for a second or two. If you are the real deal you are already IT, - so you can't go in stealth. (I already understood the Jewish bit in the beginning)

3. In my post what I pointed out was that you could be "outed" if the modifications are noted by some client e.g. if the interior of your vagina is different in structure, is without the muscular ridges or ruggae or the expected types of female secretion etc. then there stands the chance of you being “outed” as a non-genuine (call it whatever you want to call it, a phony, an imposter or ?). Such suspicion could possibly be raised by any of the unusal things someone might notice early on or years later.

4. Fantasia, surely you are aware that many men are fully aware of all the minutiae of the pussies they love and that they closely inspect and taste them thoroughly at every opportunity. Actually in over several hundred i've seen I can’t remember being refused oral access to any.

5. Most importantly, if you decide to proceed with this experiment and are found to be non-genuine the Big question will be “Was going stealth worth it? ” Think about that. That is the same point that Cobbler was trying to make earlier!

6. Take heed and don’t be so damned defensive and looking for trouble.

[TSFantasia]

The above nonsense does not deserve response.

Geez, Fantasia, you are impossible to argue with. I have tried to point out to you the pitfalls that could be encountered by your going ?Stealth?. Rather than deal with the realities of doing so you choose to attack the messenger {ME} for having the audacity to even mention them. You have misconstued most everything . Reread my post please, with the following in mind.

1. In my post what I pointed out was that if you go in Stealth and are found to be other than what you claim to be then you will be marked as a phony! I did not say you were a phony, I said you'd be marked as such!

2. If you are the real deal you can not go in stealth. In my post what I said was that if you were to go in STEALTH you are already an imposter, not because I said so, but because you have been modified to become so. Think about that for a second or two. If you are the real deal you are already IT, - so you can't go in stealth. (I already understood the Jewish bit in the beginning)

3. In my post what I pointed out was that you could be "outed" if the modifications are noted by some client e.g. if the interior of your vagina is different in structure, is without the muscular ridges or ruggae or the expected types of female secretion etc. then there stands the chance of you being ?outed? as a non-genuine (call it whatever you want to call it, a phony, an imposter or ?). Such suspicion could possibly be raised by any of the unusal things someone might notice early on or years later.

4. Fantasia, surely you are aware that many men are fully aware of all the minutiae of the pussies they love and that they closely inspect and taste them thoroughly at every opportunity. Actually in over several hundred i've seen I can?t remember being refused oral access to any.

5. Most importantly, if you decide to proceed with this experiment and are found to be non-genuine the Big question will be ?Was going stealth worth it? ? Think about that. That is the same point that Cobbler was trying to make earlier!

6. Take heed and don?t be so damned defensive and looking for trouble.

Not really Toban I was just responding or reacting to what you said and how it was worded. You keep saying the post-op is being fake or phony for not disclosing she is post-op and not a "genetic" woman. My point is only her presenting herself as a female and as a woman.

I'm not in that position and even when I am I may not be at that point of passability to even try. But if I did I would not be misrepresenting my self to say I am a woman or a female, as no one is asking how I got there. I am a woman now and the only reason I divulge my "T" to any guy interested in me on a dating site or sex hookup site is because I do still have a penis.

So yes I can understand the inherent risks in some guys having question marks in their heads about certain things whether the texture of your vagina, the taste of your pussy, the tone of your voice, etc. But as for my above comment being nonsense I think that is the logical conclusion to what you have said. As that only leaves the girl to operate as a post-op TS only (assuming a girl wants to continue in the biz). This eliminates the straight male clients. Leaving her the few trans attracted clients ,who want to check her out for old times sake and to see how her SRS turned out. After that her clients will likely diminish to a trickle as trans attracted men want a penis to suck on or to have to be fucked by.