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Don't know what this has to do with T-Girls lol ,but wondering about others take on this situation/crisis that has developed over Russia annexing Crimea. Is this the beginning of a new Cold War based on Russian aggression and expansionism or was this a valid move by Russia and the wishes of the Crimean people to be a part of Russia and not the Ukraine? Is it hypocritical for the West particularly the US to make a big deal about this when they send troops into whatever country and situation they feel is warranted to protect "American interests"?
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It Was Clear Cut Military Invasion
Dress things up, change the name all you want (not "you" personally lol)...it's Communism and Commie propaganda all the way. Putin protecting Russian speaking Ukrainians from the evil, aggressive Ukrainian enemy...Russian speaking Ukrainians living in fear, being threatened and attacked! Only problem...nobody observed any violence against any Russians anywhere in Crimea. Why, they even cried about ethnic cleansing of Russian speaking Ukrainians in Crimea! Ridiculous! The only violence was in Kiev, Ukrainian Pro-Russians running Ukrainian Parliament in Kiev and the whole world seen the aftermath. Russians with guns!
Crimea: Most of Ukraine's own gas fields are in Crimea, which is also strategic to Russia's Black Sea Fleet. Putin used Russian speaking people as a propaganda tool to provide his excuse to invade, to steal Ukraine's resources, and protect "his" interests. He could care less about the people, any people. The treaty between Ukraine and Russia was that Ukraine, a sovereign country, disarm their nuclear power, of which the weapons were absorbed into Russian arsenal. Ukraine was the 3rd largest nuclear power in the world. Russia then would be like big brother of sorts, ensuring Ukraine's sovereignty against aggressors. Who do the military aggressors turn out to be...Russia!
The new Prime Minister in Crimea, a Pro-Russian, ran in the last Crimean election and lost terribly with only 3% of the votes. With Russian speaking people being 60% of the Crimean population, why didn't they vote for him during that election? Have you heard of the blue eyed/brown eyed experiment done with children in the 1950's? The blue eyed kids were told they were smart and the brown eyed kids were told they were dumb. Well, the kids actually believed it and acted out as such. The blue eyed kids looked down on the brown eyed kids who in turn became withdrawn and insecure. Such an experiment would never be allowed today, but is very similar to Russian actions in Crimea. They took over radio waves, television stations...scaring people about an enemy that's not there. Mother Russia, the almighty power...your saviour! The new Crimean Prime Minister wasn't good enough a few years ago but as a friend of Putin, one of his best, he now sits in the highest chair in Crimea! It bears no resemblance to the way the president was placed in Kiev where he was selected by Parliamentarians until an election is held. Could Russian speaking Ukrainians not see it was political corruption that keeps them poor and hungry...not Ukrainians, who are in the same boat. Can/Do Russian speaking actually believe their quality of life will improve under Putin? NOT!! Putin is selling weapons to Syria's government to use and murder their own people. He stopped the G8 from taking action in Syria by using veto power. Guess where the money from the selling of weapons goes...largely into their private bank accounts, scattered around the world! Same as Yanukovich and his flunkies. When all is said and done together they will go into history as some of the biggest thieves ever!
US cannot be compared to this kind of evil. Current president nor former presidents of the USA are shitting in gold toilets. The "invasions" the US participated in or orchestrated were generally situations where governments were murdering their own people. Let's look at Iraq for example, I'm sure you've heard of Saddam Hussian? Hussein's military invade Iran, Iran can handle themselves, after 8 years of fighting Iraq pull out, no winner. But now they have a war hardened military and are anxious for more so...2 years later they invade Kuwait, a tiny peaceful nation. All the while murdering his own people. By comparison the situation could be similar to Russia invading Ukraine. Ukraine overall is not a military force by any stretch, mostly just hard working people, farmers, miners, etc. However, US usually only act in countries where they have their own interests, oil! They're also damned if they do damned if they don't. Big bad USA sticking their face where they have no business, then cries of "why is the US allowing this to happen" if they don't. But to talk about the US is another can of worms with such varying beliefs that a debate could never end.
Of particular note is the fact that if Ukraine fought back, they'd have been slaughtered and opened up for a full scale invasion by Russia. They did the right thing by not fighting against "THE BIG RED COMMUNIST MACHINE!" Consider Russia's more recent invasions of Georgia, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan and now Ukraine. Only to name a few. Or how about Chechnya, really good example here where terrorists held hostages in a theatre. Putin declared that no terrorists will win under his watch and sent in his special forces. They did great...killing 40 terrorists...but 130 hostages were also lost and it was called a victory. So, who thinks Putin cares? Show of hands please! How many would he have killed if there Was a terrorist attack in Sochi?! Hummm...food for thought.
Am I passionate about this situation...yes. I hate it! I have personal reasons for feeling this way. I will NEVER WALK on land owned by Russia! I hate Ovechkin!! Lol (kidding! Not really, kidding again...yes, really!)
OMG!!! I hope KGB aren't reading this! Especially knowing how Russia feels about gays, lesbians and transgendered people! Any spies here providing "Intel" to the Ruskies?
Now, aren't cha glad ya started this thread? LolLast edited by Gypsy1955; 03-26-2014, 07:37 AM. -
Yes because I'm not really up on the political situation there so thanks for filling in the blanks and info. I see it as very threatening to stability and peace in that part of the world. Poland is already looking at their defences in case Russia wants to expand further. I don't think anyone wants to allow a repeat of Hitler's aggression and expansionism or Soviet Russia's through appeasement, so I think this situation could escalate very rapidly if Russia makes any further moves toward neighbouring countries.Originally posted by Gypsy1955 View Post*F*A*N*T*A*SA* Comment
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Yes Fantasia, it could get worse but hopefully sanctions will make Russia pull back and get out of Crimea with no further violence. Then the Russian speaking, who raised their hands against law abiding Ukrainians, will embrace them and say "we love you, Putin soooo bad! We are so happy that we can live side by side, like family!" Sad because if not, somewhere down the line Ukraine will be forced to fight a war they cannot win.Originally posted by TSFantasia View Post
Putin has ordered his corrupt billionaire friends to start paying taxes to ease the pressure from the sanctions, which are working. These billionaires who right now are afraid of Putin, will be his downfall. Their cash flows and bank accounts will start to dwindle from paying taxes and sanctions levied against them by the EU and the West. They will have to collectively put their heads together to bring him down. Some will die, some will simply disappear. That's what happens when you play with the mob. The last billionaire who disagreed with Putin is in jail and likely will never get out. Only people in Putins circle (including their families and friends) are allowed to become rich. Choke the money from them!
Russia has opened the eyes of all of the other countries in their orbit that they cannot be trusted. They live off military aggression, lies and propaganda. Germany and Poland have each decided that they must reconsider treaty's made with Russia and must increase their nuclear and military capabilities. It IS the right decision!Last edited by Gypsy1955; 03-26-2014, 10:41 AM.Comment
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World history is not my thing so >
I?m not really up to date on world events and I may be way off course here, but if I remember correctly (and I?m not at all certain that I do) wasn?t Crimea a part of Russia until quite recently when Russia ?ceded? that area to the Ukraine?
If correct, that would account for the fact that so many Crimean-Ukrainians speak and think Russian and why they want to return to their old homeland! If that is what happened, (I?m too indifferent to bother checking it out) then Russia, realizing it made a mistake, is acting like an ?Indian-giver? by forcibly taking back what it once gave away.
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Is this your ethnic background Gypsy as you seem pretty up to speed on everything happening? I think its sad that Russia has continued to support dictatorships like Syria , while all the while trying to pretend they are reformed and a part of the world community, G8, etc. And they continue to backdoor fight the Americans by providing illegal arms to dictatorships and terrorist groups. Though I don't think the US is completely innocent in that department either.Originally posted by Gypsy1955 View Post*F*A*N*T*A*SA* Comment
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Crimea doesn't want to be part of Ukraine. The people voted on it. I really can't see why so many people have a problem with that. And please, enough with comparing Putin with Hitler, there hasn't been a shot fired in Crimea since this all began. If it was Hitler's henchmen in Crimea anyone who didn't capitulate would have been hung...shot...or both, no questions asked. They were ruthless motherfuckers and did unspeakable things to many including Roma, Slavs, Jews, homosexuals, disabled etc. Stop throwing these comparisons of Hitler and Putin around like candy. Some very serious shit went down during WWII.
The people of Crimea don't want to be a part of Ukraine, get over it.
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You're pretty naive. The secret services of the world (eastern and western) have actively supported dictatorships and terrorist organizations throughout the world. They use them in proxy wars against governments they don't agree with so they don't have to get their own hands dirty. Hell, the CIA helped create the fuckin' Taliban, yes that Taliban! You need to get your head out of the sand.Originally posted by TSFantasia View PostComment
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Geeze easy there Big Mike where did that attack come from? Look at my first post and the one you just quoted. As I said the west and particularly the US is not innocent of this type of underhanded protect "Amer ican interests" behavior. And I'm also aware that the US fully backed and helped arm the Saddam Hussein regime during the Iraq-Iran war. And yes the US is guilty of creating Frankensteins and then mustering all the western nations to come out with their torches and pitchforks when the monster gets out of control.Originally posted by BIG MIKE View Post
However, if Putin has further interests to expand and reclaim old Soviet "satellites" then there will be big problems. Hopefully that is not the case.*F*A*N*T*A*SA* Comment
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Harper looks like a total fool going around like some kind of big shot on this issue.
This issue is almost none of our business, and the fact we are spending tax dollars on this at all makes me mad.
There is far more serious issues at home but Harper is getting off on all the attention and talking tough.
My tax dollars should be staying in Canada not propping up some illegitimate government in Ukraine.
Ukraine is not part of NATO and we should save our efforts for people that we are aligned with.
Even then we shouldn't be starting a war with Russia over some tiny republic that was part of Russia for hundreds or even thousands of years.
The west can create a fake country like Israel, yet they are upset about Russia joining with a country they have been aligned with forever. Western leaders are a bunch of hypocrites.
Most of the Canadians who say they are of Ukrainian descent are actually of Russian descent because their roots are before the country was independent.
Ukraine is a failed state with no money and an illegitimate government.
Why is it our job to bail them out?
In reality they would be far better off as part of Russia than the way they are now.
Crimea recognized this long ago.
If parts of Mexico or Canada started to melt down, the USA would not hesitate to do something similar.
So why can't Russia police things in it's own region?
Ukraine is a shit show right now.
The fact they are trying to distance themselves from their neighbour and closest ally makes no sense either.
What the fuck is Canada going to do for them, compared to what Russia can do for them.
Not a damn thing.
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Down With NATO!
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T erroist
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The USA is run by EVIL.. I'm shocked that they haven't had a revolution yet..
Fucking american scumbag corpocracy crap needs to end.. sooner is better than later..
Did you hear today Obama said the EU needs to spend more on military and so does NATO..
WTF For?? Oh wait.. they're supposed to buy American Made arms..
I am all for Ukraine being reunited with Russia as a whole.. I see it to be very possible that this might happen..
Oh I forgot.. Putin.. I think he's sexy.. Not the hitler type..
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So then your good with Ukraine becoming another country where it's illegal to be gay, lesbian, or transgender then? Good to know.Originally posted by AlexisDVyne View PostN orth
A merican
T erroist
O rganization
The USA is run by EVIL.. I'm shocked that they haven't had a revolution yet..
Fucking american scumbag corpocracy crap needs to end.. sooner is better than later..
Did you hear today Obama said the EU needs to spend more on military and so does NATO..
WTF For?? Oh wait.. they're supposed to buy American Made arms..
I am all for Ukraine being reunited with Russia as a whole.. I see it to be very possible that this might happen..
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Oh I forgot.. Putin.. I think he's sexy.. Not the hitler type..*F*A*N*T*A*SA* Comment
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Now, first of all the LAST thing I want to do is make excuses for Russia's actions......however.....
......if you look at Russia's history I think you can get a clue as to their motivation. In their eyes, their history consists of attack after attack from....yes, the West.......France (1812), France/Britain (1850-something), Germany/Austria-Hungary (WW1), US/Britain/Japan (intervention in the Revolution), Germany/Italy/Hungary/Rumania/Finland (WW2). I'm probably missing a few......
One of the main Soviet goals in WW2 was to push the border between them and the West as far west as possible, to provide a buffer zone. On the collapse of the Soviet Union, the West made undertakings to Russia to the effect that NATO would not start pushing east into the formerly Soviet-bloc questions. So NATO promptly admitted Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Lituania, Latvia, Estonia....and probably a couple more (I reserve the right to make a few factual errors - I'm doing this without references). Add to that the US plan to base a missile defence system in Easter Europe (aimed at Iran, etc....or so they say) and the net result is a seriously freaked out Russia, led by a thug in the Kremlin who?s looking for any opportunity to boost his ratings.
Throw in mounting unrest and discontent at home and you have a perfect recipe for the Crimea - Putin gets to take off his shirt in a newly ?liberated? territory, Russians feel like they?re the real deal as a world power again, the Ukraine is thrown into turmoil, the KGB gets to brush up on their ?how to create maximum shit in neighbouring countries? practices, the West (particularly the US) looks (and is) totally ineffectual?..all good
Now, as I said at the start, this in NO WAY excuses Russia?s actions ? the thuggery, the cynical manipulation of the press, the subversion of democratic processes, etc. But think it does provide some insight into Putin?s motivation
So I think it was kinda inevitable (ain?t hindsight grand?)
Act 2: Lithuania? Moldova??.Alaska?
My 2 cents?.Comment
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Originals Ukrainians were not russian
Without getting into years or what century (there's history books for that) Ukrainians were first Slavics then Poles then another then another until eventually they were taken by force by Russia. Everybody wants Ukraine because it is so rich in resources.
Ukrainian people love Russia and Russian leadership so much that in the Second World War when the Germans pushed the Russians out of Kiev the Ukrainians rejoiced and welcomed the Germans with open arms! How's that for love eh? They hated the Russians!! Unfortunately the Russians regrouped the following year and stormed back. They had no problem bombing and levelling a 1500 year old city!
Yes Fantasia, Stalin murdered millions of Ukrainians! He murdered Russians so why would he give a crap about Ukrainians, they're not even Russian so he murdered more of them. Russian and German militaries abused the people of Ukraine during the 2nd world war. Although it is acknowledged that 3 million Ukrainians were murdered, the actual numbers of dead Ukrainians are upwards of 8 million, they simply don't know how many for sure, but it's estimated at between 8 and 10 million dead Ukrainians during the Second World War. People don't seem to know that. We only ever hear about another group of people.
Mostly Ukrainian deaths were from starvation. They were forced to grow food for the German and/or Russian aggressors. Whoever had control at the time. Some of the food was even sent to their native countries to feed them while Ukrainian farmers were starved to death. Unbelievable...farmers with bountiful food for all, starved to death! Ukrainians themselves were shot or hanged if caught eating any of the food they were growing. Ukraine was called the "breadbasket" of Europe and their job was to provide food to stronger militaries until they dropped dead. Sound familiar? So, where's the love, someone tell me where's the love I ask? Who thinks Ukraine should go back to Russia? It's uneducated and absurd to even suggest. Ukrainians don't want another dictatorship, they want THEIR "FREEEEEDOM!"
To answer another question, Crimea was given "back" to Ukraine in 1954. It wasn't until 1991 when Ukraine became sovern that it was "formally" documented as belonging to Ukraine. Drawbacks holding things up...here we go...CORRUPT PRO-RUSSIAN POLITICIANS! Born from former Soviet Union. Dragging their asses, sucking up to Mother Russia! Where are they now...HIDING...PROTECTED...IN RUSSIA!!! Who here remembers a Ukraine president being poisoned not really so long ago. His face deformed from unknowingly ingesting poison in his food...everyone knows it was KGB!
The USA. Say all you want, yes they have dirty hands. But in the end who's going to watch over these bully countries? I know why the USA entered into WW2! Canada was there 2 years before them. When have the USA invaded and then starved to death people by the millions? When did the USA bring innocent people into arenas and chop their heads off in front of their families? And I'm not talking about the Romans.
Fantasia...no Ukraine is not my ancestry or heritage. I'm 5th generation Canadian...from Ireland/Scotland. Having trouble figuring it out. When I retire I will live part of every year in Ukraine. I will never set foot on any Russian soil, ever! WHEN Crimea goes back to its rightful people, Ukraine, I will go to Crimea. I actually have Ukrainian friends who worry about my being outspoken on this. They worry that KGB (yes, KGB...alive and well) will see this, and should I go there my name will be on a blacklist and I will be arrested. How's that for freedom of speech, eh? Think "pussy cat dolls!"
When will the Russians want Alaska back!!!Last edited by Gypsy1955; 03-27-2014, 12:27 AM.Comment
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I agree Canada would long ago been a Soviet state or Chinese communist satellite if not for the USA and their arsenal as our ally and shield. And I would rather live in a western democracy where, in spite of the corruption and inconsistencies we get to vote politicians and parties in and out of power every 4-5 yrs and don't have to be slaughtered in the street for trying to oust a 20-30yr dictatorship!Originally posted by Gypsy1955 View Post*F*A*N*T*A*SA* Comment
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