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the syndrome of "Wrong Body" - a less sexy, more serious thread

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  • the syndrome of "Wrong Body" - a less sexy, more serious thread

    Language is an exceptionally powerful tool, yes, at communication and the development of ideas, but also in a far more potent manner of defining milieu. Language indeed has the ability to define ones gender. This idea has been discussed at length, and though I hate always having to return to Judith Butler, her work is the foundation for all current Transgender and Queer theory studies. The very fact that we use the term ‘man’ and ‘woman’ necessarily creates the gender binary of male/female and all of the cultural connotations that are attached to each term.
    I wish not to discuss the power of language with regards to stable gender norms, but something much less pedantically academic ( and thus less pompous and irritating)

    What I would like to discuss is how the discourse of ‘wrong body’ has come to define the world of transgenderism. So often one will hear or read that a person experiencing gender dysphoria, or having a ‘sexual identity crisis’ (awful phrase) needs the pity of the ‘normal’ world ; that that individual with said crisis was ‘born with the wrong body’. Okay, I get it, I understand it, I’ve never been through something like it, and thus might be said to have very little validity to comment upon it; however. I do care about it though, and thus take at least a mere measure of warrant from my caring as a human being.

    That being said, what does this wrong body narrative indicate, or precipitate; indeed, what is at stake? Well, firstly, and obviously, the very moment one uses the language of ‘wrong’ necessarily indicates that what the subject in question is actually going through is a problem, isn’t correct, or therefore isn’t normal. It creates and adds to a politics of cisnormative ideology.

    Sandy Stone argues, in her extraordinarily influential essay ‘The Empire Strikes Back: A Posttransexual Manifesto’, that the idea of being in the wrong body has come to define the ‘syndrome.’ Stones’ claim about wrong body narrative prompts discussion of the cultural factors that provide the makeup for these ideologies. Furthermore, contemporary transgender theorist Jason Cromwell argues that ‘wrong body’ is an inadequate description of an individual’s experience of their body not being part of their self This is further echoed by Lucas Crawford who sees the wrong body narrative as inadequate and unhelpful discourse when talking about transgenderism (Crawford 2013). Indeed, is not the sense of wrongness the very result of gender ideologies that mandate what it is that constitute ‘femaleness’ and ‘maleness’?

    Without delving to much further into the contemporary debate on these matters, ( as I assure you, I would loooove to ramble on), My main interest at this point is to see what other people here think of this? Do you agree or disagree with the idea of “wrong body” ? by this, of course we mean that in the case of M-t-F the woman inside has always felt she was in the wrong body and therefore needs to ‘correct’ or change into the body she feels her gender connects with. Also, is it always as simple as this? ( I can’t imagine it is). I often think that the world of scholars do not focus enough on actual real people living in a world that is bent on the classification of everything that doesn’t conform to the standard norms. Too often things are left in this theoretical field with real people being completely left out of the debate, or being chastised for not trying to bring about some sort of “free gender revolution”. My dear friend who identifies as woman and is indeed an M-t-F transitioned, says she is very happy BEING herself as a woman, taking on all of the gender assigned qualities of a so called womanhood. Whether that is viewed as oppressive by feminist politics, she cares not… she likes being ‘the bottom’ and likes doing the baking and what not. That academia says this is wrong, I personally find unbearably insulting. But I am looking for other views here… I hope I get at least a few responses as this is obviously not a sexy, but rather serious thread.

    -Mark

    citations ---

    Crawford, Lucas Cassidy. “Transgender Without Organs? Mobilizing a Geo-Affective Theory of
    Gender Modificiation.” The transgender Studies Reader 2. Ed. Susan Stryker and Aren Z.
    Aizura. New York, NY: Routledge, 2013. 473 - 482. Print

    Stone, Sandy. “The Empire Strikes Back: A Posttransexual Manifesto.” The transgender Studies
    Reader. Ed. Susan Stryker and Stephen Whittle. New York, NY: Routledge, 2006. 221 –
    235. Print

  • #2
    I think that the present consensus, if there is such a thing in so diverse a group of people, is that Genitalia does NOT equal Gender that Gender is a person's personality and their emotional, mental, sexual awareness of self. Looking at a baby's genitalia at birth only tells them what biological sex they are and yes in most cases how they will identify themselves gender wise as an individual.

    Most but not all trans women are working towards aligning their physical bodies with their inner gender identity through HRT, cosmetic
    surgeries and eventual SRS. Hormones effect us physically, emotionally, mentally and sexually so having our estrogen levels brought up
    to normal female levels and our testosterone levels dropped brings us more into harmony with our gender identity.

    I would think that many in the "shemale" sex industry (porn, escorting) sacrifice their necessary HRT for the sake of being
    able to maintain erections, having big cumshots and avoid shrinkage of the male genitalia. Having a higher testosterone level
    maintains a higher sex drive and less conflict over sexual and gender identity in the performance of their job duties.
    *F*A*N*T*A*SA*

    Comment


    • #3
      My apologies

      Originally posted by TSFantasia View Post
      I think that the present consensus, if there is such a thing in so diverse a group of people, is that Genitalia does NOT equal Gender that Gender is a person's personality and their emotional, mental, sexual awareness of self. Looking at a baby's genitalia at birth only tells them what biological sex they are and yes in most cases how they will identify themselves gender wise as an individual.

      Most but not all trans women are working towards aligning their physical bodies with their inner gender identity through HRT, cosmetic
      surgeries and eventual SRS. Hormones effect us physically, emotionally, mentally and sexually so having our estrogen levels brought up
      to normal female levels and our testosterone levels dropped brings us more into harmony with our gender identity.

      I would think that many in the "shemale" sex industry (porn, escorting) sacrifice their necessary HRT for the sake of being
      able to maintain erections, having big cumshots and avoid shrinkage of the male genitalia. Having a higher testosterone level
      maintains a higher sex drive and less conflict over sexual and gender identity in the performance of their job duties.
      I completely understand that this is a serious thread, but I just can't help myself.
      So it's estrogen that drives a woman's sex drive through the floor..... And I thought it was wedding cake that did that.

      Comment


      • #4
        Though I knew this thread would absolutely loose out to those others threads such as 'big cocks' and ' BUTTS, BUTTS ... and BUTTS" I am pleased that there has been some thought around this.

        Fantasia, I think you make a very accurate observation as current debates do indeed suggest that gender is completely separate from one's biological sex. In Fact, this whole notion was developed in the mid 20th century where Simone de Beauvoir claims that ?sex is understood to be the invariant, anatomically distinct, and factic aspects of the ? body, whereas gender is the cultural meaning and form that that body acquires? distinct and separate from biological sex: ?One is not born, but rather, becomes a woman?(Butler ?Sex and Gender in Simone de Beauvoir's Second Sex? 1986).

        Although I completely agree with this proposition and find my own views definitely on the side of voluntarism, that is the ability to choose and change ones gender, I do think the other side of the camp deserves some credit. If, for instance, the biological organs and biological sex didn't play into the equation at all, things like the Harry Benjamin Standards for assessing one to undergo SRS, well, these would be unnecessary. Indeed perhaps SRS would be unnecessary. The fact is, that although debates roll on with regards to the separation of sex and gender, some people still very much believe in the alignment of both. What I'm getting at is: who is to say they are wrong? Perhaps yes, they are thinking in an outdated ideology ( I'm not saying people who get SRS are not thinking right) but the very fact that Theorists and Scholars think they have the right solution doesn't necessarily convince all humankind, nor should it. As I said, not everyone wants to be part of a gender revolution. Just because someone identifies, let's say, as homosexual doesn't mean that person necessarily supports Gay Pride Parades, or votes liberal or NDP.

        It becomes very tricky. In fact, I've written allot about how YA literature that is addressing Transgenderism is in fact giving very ideological narratives that suggest SRS is a necessary movement towards a sort of 'wholeness'.. which I disagree with. As I said, I am on the gender fluidity side. But this is also not to say that something like SRS is a wrong direction, by any stretch of the imagination. Indeed, when looking at the language again, which is how I started this thread, the prefix's of terms becoming a way of detteritorializing and adapting new meaning.

        In this way, something like the word Trans of course takes on a linear crossing from one sex to another, or indeed one gender to another. But this linearality reinforces the male/female binary as the only way of identifying. Although Trans becomes an incredibly powerful term for 'Trans'-formation it becomes more powerful when juxtaposed with the prefix designated in SRS, that is the 're' of reassignment. 'Re' allows for all sorts of fluid potential that are potential binary breaking for they suggest no crossing from one camp to another. take 're'juvinate 're'charge . The term ?regeneration? becomes far more capacious than transition, the latter implying changes to the body only. Regeneration, on the other hand, suggests ?re-shaping and re-working bodily boundaries? (Hayward 178). Again, where trans- as a prefix has more to do with the sense of across, or through to the other side of, the re- prefix (where the original sense of re- in Latin is that of ?backwards?), in its modern usage allows for varying forms of meaning. Take ?re-generate: to form, construct, or create anew especially in an improved state?(Hayward 184). In this way, Trans becomes very much a way of 'becoming', in a sense that was made clear ( if these two can ever actually be clear) by the famous French theorists Deleauze and Guattari where ?becoming is not a correspondence between relations ? [nor is it] ? a resemblance, an imitation, or, at the limit, an identification?(Deleauze & Guattari 237), it is the constant flux and change of being.

        Once again, I will end it here in hopes that someone might want to continue in the conversation.. of course, I understand if no one wants to. "BUTTS BUUTS .. and BUTTS' probably would have my attention as well. oh, and Fantasia, you're absolutely right about those woman in the Prn or SP industry what regards the 'cumshot' et al. I know I sure enjoy a great hulking blast of a cum, and the secondary jets and streams that should follow... as opposed to the clear fluid dribble.... we all have our sexual preferences don't we?

        I will end this with a DnG quote... simply cause they're insane and brilliant and revolutionary.. and becoming.

        We know that many beings pass between a man and a woman; they come from
        different worlds, are borne on the wind, form rhizomes around roots; they cannot be understood in terms of production, only in terms of becoming.
        -- Gilles Deleuze and F?lix Guattari


        citations ---

        Butler, Judith. ?Sex and Gender in Simone de Beauvoir's Second Sex? Yale French Studies - Simone de
        Beauvoir: Witness to a Century. 72.1 (1986). 35-49. Web

        Deleuze, Gilles and Felix Guattari. A Thousand Plateaus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia. Minneapolis,
        MN: University of Minnesota Press. 2011. Print

        Hayward, Eva. ?Lessons From a Starfish.? The transgender Studies Reader 2. Ed. Susan Stryker
        and Aren Z. Aizura. New York, NY: Routledge, 2013. 178 - 188. Print


        Originally posted by TSFantasia View Post
        I think that the present consensus, if there is such a thing in so diverse a group of people, is that Genitalia does NOT equal Gender that Gender is a person's personality and their emotional, mental, sexual awareness of self. Looking at a baby's genitalia at birth only tells them what biological sex they are and yes in most cases how they will identify themselves gender wise as an individual.

        Most but not all trans women are working towards aligning their physical bodies with their inner gender identity through HRT, cosmetic
        surgeries and eventual SRS. Hormones effect us physically, emotionally, mentally and sexually so having our estrogen levels brought up
        to normal female levels and our testosterone levels dropped brings us more into harmony with our gender identity.

        I would think that many in the "shemale" sex industry (porn, escorting) sacrifice their necessary HRT for the sake of being
        able to maintain erections, having big cumshots and avoid shrinkage of the male genitalia. Having a higher testosterone level
        maintains a higher sex drive and less conflict over sexual and gender identity in the performance of their job duties.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm aware of the whole gender fluid component of the trans movement and their notions regarding gender policing and fighting the gender binary concepts in society. I think seeing society is only slowly willing to accept the idea of transgenderism, of someone truly feeling they are the opposite gender to their birth biological gender, and allowing for the protection of our civil and legal rights and appropriate medical treatment in pursuing our transition. I think this splintering into multiple directions and "transition/non-transition" goals just weakens the movement as a whole and weakens our case to society. Making us look like a bunch of very confused and disturbed individuals, who truly don't know what we want! We are asking society to accept a variety of hybrid genders and combinations, which brings more amusement and ridicule then we already have to contend with.
          *F*A*N*T*A*SA*

          Comment



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