Taxed the Canadian way...

[Mugsammy]

Funny how in this article paying taxes is called "spending" when the government gets paid before we, the working earners do. It's "taking" our money, not spending. Anyways, here's the meat of the article, read it and weep:



The Canadian Press - The Canada Revenue Agency headquarters in Ottawa is shown on November 4, 2011. The Heartbleed bug in early April hit the Canada Revenue Agency at a bad time, just as the agency is trying to expand its online services for individual ?more

Forget soaring house prices and the extra dough you?re forking over for food and fuel, it?s the rate of tax increases that Canadians should be complaining more about, a new study suggests.


The Fraser Institute has just released a report showing that the average Canadian family spends more on taxes than food, clothing and shelter combined. The findings may not be a surprise to many Canadians, but the rate of growth ? which the report shows is faster than any other single expenditure over the past 50 years ? is noteworthy.

The report says the average Canadian family?s total tax bill has increased by 1,832 per cent between 1961 and 2013. That compares to 1,375 per cent for housing, a 620-per-cent increase in clothing costs and 546 per cent for food.

The increase in our tax bills since 1961 has also outpaced the Consumer Price Index, which has risen 682 per cent. Even after accounting for inflation over the period, the tax bill shot up 147 per cent, the report states.

?If you asked people to name their household?s biggest expense, many would likely say housing, but in reality the average Canadian family spends more on taxes than all basic necessities including housing,? states Charles Lammam, resident scholar in economic policy at the Fraser Institute and co-author of the Canadian Consumer Tax Index.
The total tax bill in the Fraser Institute report includes all government levies such as income and payroll taxes, as well as taxes on goods and services.

[Alexis]

Uhuh..

I look around the world.. then see Canada.. It's the best place on earth..

Taxes are high sure.. but our standard of living is too..

Free health care, lots of personal freedom, a fair legal system, etc..

The issues we face are not about the high level of taxes we pay.. which is about 45-50% including hidden taxes..

The issues are making sure those tax dollars are managed and spent wisely and not floundered away by stupid politicians with their own personal agendas..

Real Estate is only expensive in major urban centers.. if you leave the city or tourist areas the prices drop to rock bottom.. I've got my eye on a 160 acre 1/4 section that's currently listed at $50k and I might try to buy it at the end of next year if I can afford it.. it's an investment/recreation property..

If you want to live in a major urban center I recommend renting unless you're rich.. lol.. If I was to buy the space I'm in my mortgage would be over $4k/month and one hell of a risk to be locked into for 20 years.. where as renting is only 2K, no risk, leave when I want.. Vancouver is very over priced if you're looking to own..

When you travel the world and see how other countries live.. Canada looks really good..

[vancouverman]

I have traveled enough to know that our high tax system makes Canada so good. We still have to burn our politicians for wasting money, senses of entitlement, and any unfair practices, but at the end of it all we wouldn't have this great country at an American level income tax without national sales tax. Just the reality of it so I don't bitch about my tax bill.

[Mugsammy]

I agree...mostly...

Health care and pensions are a major sore point for me. Thankfully I'm very healthy, due largely to using my own initiatives and taking care of myself, which is ongoing and will be ongoing for the rest of my life. When I finally do retire I will have a few private pensions, CPP and old age pension. Fingers crossed I won't have to squander any of it away on meds!

What annoys me the most are the predicament most of our seniors live in. Health care may be free...for now...but prescriptions are not. Pensions for retired or retiring military personnel are minuscule compared to politicians and other private companies. Medical plans can be retained or purchased but the cost without private company plans are astronomical.

I firmly believe we should be using more of our tax dollars in taking better care of our seniors and our military personnel. Especially with the constant barrage of bad news about the mental health of our military. The government answer to many of the problems is to let them go, see if they have the fight left in them to take on the government for at times well deserved medical pensions and services.

I'm not talking about the scammers here who sometimes sneak through the cracks, or the rich who can afford to pay...I'm talking only about the less fortunate, or people who really need the help.

After all, hopefully we'll all be there!

[vancouverman]

Health care and pensions are a major sore point for me. Thankfully I'm very healthy, due largely to using my own initiatives and taking care of myself, which is ongoing and will be ongoing for the rest of my life. When I finally do retire I will have a few private pensions, CPP and old age pension. Fingers crossed I won't have to squander any of it away on meds!

What annoys me the most are the predicament most of our seniors live in. Health care may be free...for now...but prescriptions are not. Pensions for retired or retiring military personnel are minuscule compared to politicians and other private companies. Medical plans can be retained or purchased but the cost without private company plans are astronomical.

I firmly believe we should be using more of our tax dollars in taking better care of our seniors and our military personnel. Especially with the constant barrage of bad news about the mental health of our military. The government answer to many of the problems is to let them go, see if they have the fight left in them to take on the government for at times well deserved medical pensions and services.

I'm not talking about the scammers here who sometimes sneak through the cracks, or the rich who can afford to pay...I'm talking only about the less fortunate, or people who really need the help.

After all, hopefully we'll all be there!

Our tax rate is not my issue, but I do agree with you that how they are allocated are often wrong or down right abusive of the system. Politicians have always taken care of themselves first and foremost and they are only accountable every few years. The big problem in our country, more than anything else, is less than 60% of people actually cast a vote so unless a party does something truly heinous, they feel invincible and that they can continue doing what they are doing. Voter memories are also short as if something horrible happens it is generally forgotten two years later come election time. Some of the best governing we had was when we had the minority government for so many years as Harper had to take into account several viewpoints in order to get bills to pass because he had that direct accountability to the house who could have brought him down in an instant.

Harper's government has had the most disdain and disgust for our Supreme Court and Charter in history, but it is still not enough to increase voter turnout.

I have always dreamed of what would happen in Canada if we had two elections in a row where 80% of the people cast a vote. How would politicians react long term and what effect would it have on them cleaning up their act? Right now, they know they can do so much shitty things and still get re-elected with the right attack ad or the right level of voter apathy.

I fear the next federal election will have the same turnout and we will end up with Harper again or some minority Harper government. He would never ,ever, be prime minister if we had an 80% or higher voter turnout. Governing parties play on this knowledge and work it to their advantage as best as they can.

[Mugsammy]

They've all had their turn...

Political parties cut taxes raise taxes leave taxes the same...implement initiatives, kill others, cut government spending (lol!) more here less there...they're all the same. Harper is in because people do not have confidence in the leaderships of the other parties, or perhaps what the other parties stand for. It's about people, selling yourself, selling your party, truths, lies, bs and everything else we can think of.

Whether 60% or 80% turnout (I don't recall ever such a turnout) parties are historically strong in particular areas. Occasionally things do change. During elections the winner is known long before the vote tallies are done, +3 or -3%. It's not usually that close. Some districts may get a new MP but that usually won't alter the picture.

Minority governments...maybe that's the best way, keeps everybody honest, somewhat.

Taxes are what this topic is about and our hard earned buck. If we paid less tax would we save more? Who knows! Whatever your tax bracket, if you don't start to prepare at a young age you will pay for it in old age. After paying 50% for 50 years when does the government show us a reward for that? CPP at $600 a month? Another $600 old age. For which we have to work longer to get. Then take it back if you get sick. Usually they put casinos in areas of high welfare and unemployment. One way or the other...their going to get their money back!

[vancouverman]

Casino's are a tax, just a "voluntary one". The sad part is the vast majority of their income comes from people who can not afford that taxation. There are lots of us that go to a casino for a night and drop 60 bucks and that is all a good time. But that is not what drives these things to make the money they do. It is people on fixed incomes, low incomes, hoping and looking for that jackpot to help pay their rent or buy a new piece of clothing or that kind of thing. Long term casino patrons end up losing a retirement fund by the time they are asking for CPP (we all know that math of 100 a month for 20 years and what that would get you in a decent RRSP).

[Mugsammy]

You got that right!

Casino's are a tax, just a "voluntary one". The sad part is the vast majority of their income comes from people who can not afford that taxation. There are lots of us that go to a casino for a night and drop 60 bucks and that is all a good time. But that is not what drives these things to make the money they do. It is people on fixed incomes, low incomes, hoping and looking for that jackpot to help pay their rent or buy a new piece of clothing or that kind of thing. Long term casino patrons end up losing a retirement fund by the time they are asking for CPP (we all know that math of 100 a month for 20 years and what that would get you in a decent RRSP).

Busted!

[Rockheart]

They need a study to tell me this?
More waste of tax dollars.

If we would take care of business at home and not send money to every other fucking country, we might not have such high tax.
We should stop allowing refugee status to every non-Canadian that has the energy to fill out a form.
Most foreigners get pandered to and spoiled far more than me who was born here.

Stop the gravy train for all the special interest groups.
Everyone should be equal but the way it is, the less equal you claim to be, the less tax you have to pay.

Sure the standard of living is OK, but the standard is far too low for what I am paying through my nose.
We also pander to corporations who should be paying ALL the tax.

The country is off the hinges and out of control.
People are starving and Indian reservations are totally unaccountable, yet our government is more concerned about starting a war on the other side of the world. Trying to scare us with the Russians, WHEN THE REAL SCARY STUFF IS RIGHT HERE AT HOME!!!!
They are only keeping our attention away from it.
There is zero reason we should be paying so much tax.

[vancouverman]

They need a study to tell me this?
More waste of tax dollars.

If we would take care of business at home and not send money to every other fucking country, we might not have such high tax.
We should stop allowing refugee status to every non-Canadian that has the energy to fill out a form.
Most foreigners get pandered to and spoiled far more than me who was born here.

Stop the gravy train for all the special interest groups.
Everyone should be equal but the way it is, the less equal you claim to be, the less tax you have to pay.

Sure the standard of living is OK, but the standard is far too low for what I am paying through my nose.
We also pander to corporations who should be paying ALL the tax.

The country is off the hinges and out of control.
People are starving and Indian reservations are totally unaccountable, yet our government is more concerned about starting a war on the other side of the world. Trying to scare us with the Russians, WHEN THE REAL SCARY STUFF IS RIGHT HERE AT HOME!!!!
They are only keeping our attention away from it.
There is zero reason we should be paying so much tax.

blaming immigration for a country's problems is a tired old argument that is centuries old and used in almost every country around the world. People really need new material. And we don't give out status to anyone with the energy to fill out a form. More claims are rejected than ever get accepted. And you are not hard done by in Canada as a citizen, we get so many priveleges that you don't get around the world. From that road you drive, to that clean air you breathe, to that tap water you can drink, to that hospital that will spend 200 grand on your cancer treatments, to that CPP you get as an old person instead of having to live in a shack begging for 500 baht to eat. You at least travel to Thailand so you should understand this more than your average redneck who never leaves the country but bitches about everything. Do your research. We will always have problems but people who look at Canada like you do are part of the problem. You will not find a country of Canada's over all standard with a significantly lower tax regime that can match what we have on a national basis. Don't bring up some country that is 500 square KM or less as some comparison of how lower taxes can give you better than Canada. Every country that would get rated equal or higher when you consider all categories has a high tax regime as well.

[Mugsammy]

High taxes...

blaming immigration for a country's problems is a tired old argument that is centuries old and used in almost every country around the world. People really need new material. And we don't give out status to anyone with the energy to fill out a form. More claims are rejected than ever get accepted. And you are not hard done by in Canada as a citizen, we get so many priveleges that you don't get around the world. From that road you drive, to that clean air you breathe, to that tap water you can drink, to that hospital that will spend 200 grand on your cancer treatments, to that CPP you get as an old person instead of having to live in a shack begging for 500 baht to eat. You at least travel to Thailand so you should understand this more than your average redneck who never leaves the country but bitches about everything. Do your research. We will always have problems but people who look at Canada like you do are part of the problem. You will not find a country of Canada's over all standard with a significantly lower tax regime that can match what we have on a national basis. Don't bring up some country that is 500 square KM or less as some comparison of how lower taxes can give you better than Canada. Every country that would get rated equal or higher when you consider all categories has a high tax regime as well.

Most of the countries where people pay the highest taxes also have better retirement and health plans for seniors. They are also the happiest peoples with highest educations, they seem to know the way to live a life better, happier life. Countries like Sweden, Denmark, Finland...they lead the way. I believe Canada is as great a country in which to live as any of them. But as in health care, education (Canadians pay far too much) and elderly care, Canada seems to concentrate where as individuals, we require it the least, pre-retirement and not as much when they need it the most....as seniors, for example. The system needs some weeks.

[Rockheart]

blaming immigration for a country's problems is a tired old argument that is centuries old and used in almost every country around the world. People really need new material. And we don't give out status to anyone with the energy to fill out a form. More claims are rejected than ever get accepted. And you are not hard done by in Canada as a citizen, we get so many priveleges that you don't get around the world. From that road you drive, to that clean air you breathe, to that tap water you can drink, to that hospital that will spend 200 grand on your cancer treatments, to that CPP you get as an old person instead of having to live in a shack begging for 500 baht to eat. You at least travel to Thailand so you should understand this more than your average redneck who never leaves the country but bitches about everything. Do your research. We will always have problems but people who look at Canada like you do are part of the problem. You will not find a country of Canada's over all standard with a significantly lower tax regime that can match what we have on a national basis. Don't bring up some country that is 500 square KM or less as some comparison of how lower taxes can give you better than Canada. Every country that would get rated equal or higher when you consider all categories has a high tax regime as well.

I'm not talking about immigration, that is one thing.
But to pander to every sob story in the world, it is just too much.
People claim refugee status here because they know we are a bunch of stooges that will feel sorry for them.
That is a fact. There is people from all sorts of countries holed up in nice apartments in Canada waiting their hearing on my dime. SCREW THEM!!! take care of Canadians first.

We have people from every country immigrating here, we don't need to support every one of these countries in return.
This is retarded. Meddling in every country and sending them all aid all the time, complete bullshit.
Every time anything happens in any country there is special interests groups expecting us to do something.

Do something in Canada, that is where i want my money to go.
What do you mean people like me?
I am a Canadian that wants the shitloads of unfair tax dollars i pay to stay in Canada, what is wrong with that?
What does that have to do with living in a hut? I would love to live in a hut but i owe too much on credit cards from living in Canada.

The fact is we could have everything you mention and receive all the benefits you mention without being the biggest target in the world for people that want a free ride. All these things could be had, ALONG WITH LOWER TAXES, if we would just take care of our own.

Sure people can immigrate here but we should take care of our own first and that means paying less tax for everyone.
We don't have to save everyone, we can pick our charities and still be good people.
We don't to get involved in every stupid war, why did we become such war mongers.

I am a true Canadian that wants my tax dollar spent in Canada.
If I have to do all this work and lose 60% of it to tax that is complete bullshit.
Meanwhile i see some refugee that I am paying for whining to high heaven about not getting every little thing.
Every non-Canadian in Canada gets more benefits than me.

[vancouverman]

Most of the countries where people pay the highest taxes also have better retirement and health plans for seniors. They are also the happiest peoples with highest educations, they seem to know the way to live a life better, happier life. Countries like Sweden, Denmark, Finland...they lead the way. I believe Canada is as great a country in which to live as any of them. But as in health care, education (Canadians pay far too much) and elderly care, Canada seems to concentrate where as individuals, we require it the least, pre-retirement and not as much when they need it the most....as seniors, for example. The system needs some weeks.

I am not saying we are spending out money correctly or have no problems. But for what we have or what we dream to want, high taxes are necessary. Those countries you mentioned also have high tax regimes

People who think we can keep our amazing country with a US level tax regime, or some capitalist zero tax rate or something in between, are really not helpful. We need more people like you who accept the tax burden but will argue and fight for it to be allocated in a better way. And no ,I don't advocate NDP style raising of taxes. I believe we pay the correct amount of taxation (give or take a few percents either way), it just needs to be managed much better.

[Alexis]

blaming immigration for a country's problems is a tired old argument that is centuries old and used in almost every country around the world. People really need new material. And we don't give out status to anyone with the energy to fill out a form. More claims are rejected than ever get accepted. And you are not hard done by in Canada as a citizen, we get so many priveleges that you don't get around the world. From that road you drive, to that clean air you breathe, to that tap water you can drink, to that hospital that will spend 200 grand on your cancer treatments, to that CPP you get as an old person instead of having to live in a shack begging for 500 baht to eat. You at least travel to Thailand so you should understand this more than your average redneck who never leaves the country but bitches about everything. Do your research. We will always have problems but people who look at Canada like you do are part of the problem. You will not find a country of Canada's over all standard with a significantly lower tax regime that can match what we have on a national basis. Don't bring up some country that is 500 square KM or less as some comparison of how lower taxes can give you better than Canada. Every country that would get rated equal or higher when you consider all categories has a high tax regime as well.

Switzerland.. Highest standard of living in the world.. about 5% more taxes than us.. 3% unemployment..

They don't allow immigration.. except in very special circumstances.. one of the few countries in Europe that opted for sovereignty VS the EU..

[vancouverman]

Switzerland.. Highest standard of living in the world.. about 5% more taxes than us.. 3% unemployment..

They don't allow immigration.. except in very special circumstances.. one of the few countries in Europe that opted for sovereignty VS the EU..

Which supports my main point that high taxation is part of what brings us a beautiful country to call our own .I am not sure why you are trying to disagree with me unless you are saying they are better because they don't allow immigration. Which is a weird argument to compare to Canada because without immigration we would not have a hell of a lot here.