Is it exploitation?

[Mugsammy]

Escorts are offering their services free of exploitation.
If YOU personally think you are exploiting them, then don't do it.

It is my understanding that every escort on Shemale Canada is there voluntarily.
You can say they are dong because they are desperate for money to survive.
The fact of life is EVERYONE is desperate for money to survive.
Perhaps you were born with it, perhaps not. The common thing among all people is we need money and we need a place to live.
It is not only the escort who is forced to work, most people are forced to work to survive.

So then you have a choice, will i work at a normal minimum wage job, will i go to school to improve my status or I will take the easy way out and escort. Nobody HAS to escort which flies in the face of your theory.

Just because you choose to have sex with strange men for money, doesn't mean you can't get a job elsewhere.
It means you chose not to work elsewhere is for you own reasons not exploitation.
USUALLY it is because they realize they can make good money and have sex, compared to working at 7-11 and making shit money and having sex with no one. The choice is pretty damn easy. Where is the exploitation? There isn't any at all.

You seem to have some weird notion that TS cannot get jobs and are forced to escort.
This is 100% wrong assumption, period.
TS can get jobs, TS can go to school, TS can be a parent, they can make many choices.

The main reason TS choose escorting is:

• Better money.
• Sex
• Flexible work hours
• Can work from home.

The fact is most TS escorts are in their 20's have no job experience or education.
So they can go work for minimum wage to get experience or they can escort.
What do you think a 20 year old is going to choose?
The one they can make the most money, have the most fun and have the fewest rules.

You need to stop thinking that TS cannot thrive in our society, because they can.
Mostly it is their own attitude that is the problem not others.
If you transition you have to recognize certain parts of your life will be harder, you cannot blame others for this.
You may not be able to do the same things as you could before, again your decision.
YOUR PERSONAL DECISION.
You cannot keep going out and blaming everyone for YOUR PERSONAL DECISION.

Yes some see transgenderism as a handicap.
However it is not a handicap that stops you from living.
Many people have other handicaps that they have to live with their whole lives.
Often they decide not to have treatment because their life will end up being harder as a result.
They live with their handicap.

Some people never even have the luxury of having sex or a relation ship in their entire life, no matter their sex.
I am not clear how people can say their sexuality is huge handicap.
Unless you where born with no sex or genitals, this is a pretty broad statement.

If you have place to live, food to eat and you are not abused, this is the basics of life.
Having sex or changing yourself for sex may make you happier but it is not always necessary or a right.
I think alot of people don't think of the consequences of their decision and blame society.

In the end it is YOUR decision to transition, I cannot understand how you can hold it against everyone else.

Like i say all the escorts are volunteers, if you personally feel you are exploiting them then don't go.
If you pay some kid $10 an hour to mow your lawn and he feels he should get more and is forced to do this, then you are exploiting him. The fact is people take jobs to live and make decision to take it.
If the escort feels exploited by you she as every option to say no.
To say you are exploiting her because she needs to eat? Everyone needs to eat, she just chose how to make the money.
Not your problem.

Your missing my point entirely. However, you cannot compare a TG escort to a kid cutting grass. If someone wants to short change a kid on lawn maintenance they're assholes! In my mind anyways.

[Rockheart]

Your missing my point entirely. However, you cannot compare a TG escort to a kid cutting grass. If someone wants to short change a kid on lawn maintenance they're assholes! In my mind anyways.

I am not missing your point, you just don't agree with what i am saying.
You are making it out like every escort is doing this against their will.
That all TS are forced into their situation by all of us bad bad men.
I am arguing that they are not exploited nor are they discriminated against wholesael.
They are not, most have chosen it as their best option, not their only option.

The kid doesn't want to cut your grass but he needs the money, so he does it even though it is not his favourite thing in the world.
You are most likely paying him less than the minimum wage and also technically hiring under age workers.
Why shouldn't you have to hire a lawn care company for $200 an hour, why are you allowed to EXPLOIT a kid for $20 just because he is broke.
That is your argument that some kid is an asshole? So you don't mind exploiting kids? But don't you dare exploit a TS.

But you are some kind of Knight in shining armour for TS?
Is this because you have no real argument about TS being exploited, because they aren't.

If you could have sex for a living, or work at Starbucks, which would you pick?

If you cannot argue any points don't reply to me.

What a fucking waste of my time.
I've talked to all your points and this is the stupid answer you give me?
I am always wrong but you are right, However you don't have to say why?
What a joke of a debate!

[rider014]

Seriously though

Ok Gyps, I mean Mugs, I'll be a little more serious now.
What was it that made you feel this way? Did you have an encounter where something was said or done that made you or the SP feel exploited? If you can back up your opinions with experience, maybe your opinions wouldn't be questioned as much, ya think?

[Mugsammy]

I am not missing your point, you just don't agree with what i am saying.
You are making it out like every escort is doing this against their will.
That all TS are forced into their situation by all of us bad bad men.
I am arguing that they are not exploited nor are they discriminated against wholesael.
They are not, most have chosen it as their best option, not their only option.

The kid doesn't want to cut your grass but he needs the money, so he does it even though it is not his favourite thing in the world.
You are most likely paying him less than the minimum wage and also technically hiring under age workers.
Why shouldn't you have to hire a lawn care company for $200 an hour, why are you allowed to EXPLOIT a kid for $20 just because he is broke.
That is your argument that some kid is an asshole? So you don't mind exploiting kids? But don't you dare exploit a TS.

But you are some kind of Knight in shining armour for TS?
Is this because you have no real argument about TS being exploited, because they aren't.

If you could have sex for a living, or work at Starbucks, which would you pick?

If you cannot argue any points don't reply to me.

What a fucking waste of my time.
I've talked to all your points and this is the stupid answer you give me?
I am always wrong but you are right, However you don't have to say why?
What a joke of a debate!

Yes you are missing my point. I've already said the girls are working by their own decision. I've already stated in this thread most of what you are saying, in fact not even necessarily disagreeing! Start over and read the entire thread again, or have you read it at all?

Knight in shining armour!! LMAO!! I read a newspaper article...am I not allowed to have an opinion? Yet you trash it! Then you'll say I started this name calling and trashing!

BTW...where's your fucking respect to other members of this forum? Personally...I think you should be penalized! locked out and throw away the bloody key!!!

This thread is a joke to you because it"s your business, nothing more! If I treated a member as you are I'D BE CUT OUT AND THE THREAD WOULD DISAPPEAR!

Noo! But wait! You're part of admin, you can say what you like without repercussion! Treat people like shit! Do you see any disrespect in my comments? Tell me please!! Any disrespect ANYWHERE IN ANY OF MY COMMENTS!

I didn't put a long response to your comments because I'd already said it all!! You can say all you want and deny exploitation because this is your business! You make money from it. But guess what, dress it up all you want..IT'S EXPLOITATION!!

So go ahead! Substantiate what I've said here...lock me out! Show everyone that I'M RIGHT!

Furthermore, I didn't say much because WHAT YOU SAID MAKES NO SENSE!

SO long folks! Crag's gonna ban me from being able to make comments in the forum now! Some advice though..Be careful cause you might be next!!

[Mugsammy]

respect...

And I'd like to mention Crag, your underwhelming respect for the girls, your bread and butter, by comparing exploitive sex to grass cutters or whatever! You should feel shame!

[Mugsammy]

Missing my point...

fkff

Yes Crag you are missing my point, completely! I've already said the girls are working by their own decision. I've already said in this thread some of what you are stating. In fact, not even necessarily disagreeing with you! I think you should Start over and read the entire thread again, you've definitely missed something. Or have you read it at all?

Knight in shining armour!! LMAO!! I read a newspaper article, it's a very relevant subject, it's also in the "chat" section, where it should be. I did everything as it I should but you flip out on me!! What kinda crap is that!? Am I not allowed to have an opinion? Yet you trash the thread and me. I didn't write the article Crag, it's an actual news interview that I simply copied, pasted and commented on! But you claim to know more about the girls then they do about themselves! What a fuckin' joke!!

Hey Crag, I can swear because YOU DID FIRST! Now how silly and childish is that, eh?

Next you'll say that I started this name calling and trashing! But it's all here for everybody to see, YOU DID IT CRAG!

BTW...where's your fucking respect to other members of this forum? Have you read the rules about disrespecting and bullying other members? Well, that's what you've done! Personally...I think you should be penalized! locked out and throw away the bloody key!!!

This thread is a joke to you because it"s your business, nothing more! If I treated a member as you are treating me and your blatant disrespect for the girls I'D BE CUT OUT AND THIS THREAD WOULD DISAPPEAR!

Noo! But wait! You're part of admin, you own the web site, you can say what you like to members without a care or fear of repercussion! Treat people like shit eh! Did you or Do you see any disrespect in my prior comments Crag? Tell me please!! Enlighten me! Any disrespect ANYWHERE IN ANY OF MY COMMENTS!

I didn't put a long response to your comments because I'd already said it all!! You can say what you want, deny exploitation because this is your business! You're make money from it, that's all you care about. But guess what, dress it up all you want..IT'S EXPLOITATION!!

So go ahead! Substantiate what I've said here...lock me out! It will only prove to everyone that I'M RIGHT!

Furthermore, I didn't say much to your comment because WHAT YOU SAID MAKES NO SENSE! In fact, it was not worthy of a response it was so ridiculous! But that's my opinion. That's how your mind clicks, my clicks differently. We're both entitled to our opinions no matter how "worthy" either of us may think.

SO LONG FOLKS!

Crag's gonna ban me from being able to make comments in the forum now as that's his normal behaviour! Some advice though..Be careful cause you might be next! But in the end...does it really matter?

But first, let me say goodbye to some special ladies, ladies that I respect even though I haven't met them...YET!

Bye Shyla! Love you! Bye Lola, Love you to! Bye Babe..if you're reading this, sweet, gorgeous, smart, funny girl! Bye Alexis...you feisty, dom, hot bitch! lol, bye Jessica Drew...you lovely sensual lady! Oh, and Suzy...beautiful Suzy...oh how I long for you!!! (it's true!)

[Mugsammy]

Think what you want...

Ok Gyps, I mean Mugs, I'll be a little more serious now.
What was it that made you feel this way? Did you have an encounter where something was said or done that made you or the SP feel exploited? If you can back up your opinions with experience, maybe your opinions wouldn't be questioned as much, ya think?

I know who I am.

Nothing necessarily "made" me feel this way. Sometimes that's just the way it is. I'm a compassionate, caring person, I've made some good friends who tell me they do not enjoy escorting. Just as in the article, educated and unable to score a half decent good paying job they turn to escorting. I believe that situation to be the norm.

I don't mind my opinions being questioned. It's an open thread, I expect it and I expect others to disagree. I'm perfectly fine with that and I accept that. I'm not an authority on the subject of TG discrimination or human exploitation. But I am intelligent, I can read, I can absorb what I read and thru this I can form an opinion. Simple as that. Because someone loves getting fucked by a TG or starts a website on the subject doesn't make them any more of an authority than me.

My only debate with Alexis was that she refers to herself. Alexis is a success story. There are other success stories. But again...that is not the norm. I would like to say that whether to support a drug habit or whatever, doesn't matter, they escort by choice but that does not mean it is not exploitation. It is indeed exploitation! Whether you, or I or Alexis or Crag like it or not.

I always forget something then must come back to edit.

Rider...look at the number of readers to this thread...although not commenting. Why? Because it is interesting? Because everyone wants to see mugsammy get the boot outta here? You don't believe some of them want to see a certain someone finally get told off? You don't believe some of these viewers can actually agree with my opinion and comments? I say "oh yes sir, some of them do!"

[Alexis]

My only debate with Alexis was that she refers to herself. Alexis is a success story. There are other success stories. But again...that is not the norm. I would like to say that whether to support a drug habit or whatever, doesn't matter, they escort by choice but that does not mean it is not exploitation. It is indeed exploitation! Whether you, or I or Alexis or Crag like it or not.

I always forget something then must come back to edit.

Rider...look at the number of readers to this thread...although not commenting. Why? Because it is interesting? Because everyone wants to see mugsammy get the boot outta here? You don't believe some of them want to see a certain someone finally get told off? You don't believe some of these viewers can actually agree with my opinion and comments? I say "oh yes sir, some of them do!"

Couple things..

I have not referred to nor would not consider myself a success story.. I'm just a happy person.. The 2008 recession along with a bad business start up in 2009 wiped me out financially.. I've been clawing my way out of debt since then and now I'm only about knee deep so it's not so bad.. I'll need another 5 years to get to the success story part.. The key.. being happy..

Secondly.. I think your OP article is not exploitation at all and is very clearly discrimination based on sexuality.. 2 totally different things.. If you want to redefine meanings the words in the dictionary this is not the place to do so.. You for instance can be seen as exploiting the article you posted to gain attention to your self.. then further exploiting it by being argumentative in relation to a dictionary definition of a word to gain further attention be it negative or positive..

Exploitation:
1) The action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work:
2) The fact of making use of a situation to gain unfair advantage for oneself

And people read the thread cuz it's near the top and has a catchy title.. nothing more..

[rider014]

I'm guessing no then.

I know who I am.

Nothing necessarily "made" me feel this way. Sometimes that's just the way it is. I'm a compassionate, caring person, I've made some good friends who tell me they do not enjoy escorting. Just as in the article, educated and unable to score a half decent good paying job they turn to escorting. I believe that situation to be the norm.

I don't mind my opinions being questioned. It's an open thread, I expect it and I expect others to disagree. I'm perfectly fine with that and I accept that. I'm not an authority on the subject of TG discrimination or human exploitation. But I am intelligent, I can read, I can absorb what I read and thru this I can form an opinion. Simple as that. Because someone loves getting fucked by a TG or starts a website on the subject doesn't make them any more of an authority than me.

My only debate with Alexis was that she refers to herself. Alexis is a success story. There are other success stories. But again...that is not the norm. I would like to say that whether to support a drug habit or whatever, doesn't matter, they escort by choice but that does not mean it is not exploitation. It is indeed exploitation! Whether you, or I or Alexis or Crag like it or not.

I always forget something then must come back to edit.

Rider...look at the number of readers to this thread...although not commenting. Why? Because it is interesting? Because everyone wants to see mugsammy get the boot outta here? You don't believe some of them want to see a certain someone finally get told off? You don't believe some of these viewers can actually agree with my opinion and comments? I say "oh yes sir, some of them do!"

Intelligence.....

A very general mental capability that, among other things, involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings?"catching on," "making sense" of things, or "figuring out" what to do.[5]

You have been given the definition of exploitation by Alexis three times now. Take from it what you wish. IMHO, you are far too emotional to reason with and as far as Crag and your opinions of him goes..... He owns the site, he can do what he pleases. Go along and you'll get along.
Cant wait to read your first review

[Locomotion]

Mugs: People rarely get outright banned from these forums just for getting over emotional over a subject or disagreeing with the Admin, what I've seen has happened in the past is several warnings are usually given, then if the offender continues, they are blocked from signing in for a month or two as sort of a cooling off period.

Usually the TG forum habit is gone from their daily routine by that time and the majority of them just never return. Also, some are possibly just too offended to return.

But I say, whatever. The forum goes on and on regardless ...

What usually causes banning is outright insulting & degrading other members, name calling, racist garbage etc. Other than that, it's a pretty forgiving place.

So just relax and enjoy the reading ...

[Mugsammy]

Couple things..

I have not referred to nor would not consider myself a success story.. I'm just a happy person.. The 2008 recession along with a bad business start up in 2009 wiped me out financially.. I've been clawing my way out of debt since then and now I'm only about knee deep so it's not so bad.. I'll need another 5 years to get to the success story part.. The key.. being happy..

Secondly.. I think your OP article is not exploitation at all and is very clearly discrimination based on sexuality.. 2 totally different things.. If you want to redefine meanings the words in the dictionary this is not the place to do so.. You for instance can be seen as exploiting the article you posted to gain attention to your self.. then further exploiting it by being argumentative in relation to a dictionary definition of a word to gain further attention be it negative or positive..

Exploitation:
1) The action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work:
2) The fact of making use of a situation to gain unfair advantage for oneself

And people read the thread cuz it's near the top and has a catchy title.. nothing more..

then may I point out what I said earlier in this thread...quote "situations rarely run a straight line nor are they simply black and white." I didn't want to get into "situations sometimes cross over the line, both ways" bs. I credited the viewers for already having the intelligence to realize that. Obviously I didn't make my point clear enough, that's my fault and well, I'm sorry

My meaning behind that comment is that discrimination (I never intended to disagree with that because after all that's what the article was about) So, I'm not trying to redefine anything, I'm simply pushing the envelope in that discrimination can/may lead to exploitation. I was not disagreeing with many of the comments especially towards discrimination. I was already moved past the discrimination aspect.

I also said the person then "has a choice, work 60 to 80 hours a week at 15 bucks an hour or the easy 250 for 1 hour".

I also agreed that it was a personal decision whether one choose to escort or not. To me, some see no other way but to escort. To me, in that situation, that's exploitation...and you did not have to repeat the definition...I read it the first time...I'm not disputing it.

To me, if I let someone shove their cock up my ass cause I feel that I "need" 250, that's "the act or fact of treating someone (me) unfairly in order to benefit from their work." You blow your load, you benefited from my ass and I get my 250. To me, that's exploitation. Maybe my handing over my ass is a direct result of discrimination from not being able to get a job. But we know, in real life...that's NEVER gonna happen!

I usually try to keep my writing minimal and to the point. Sometimes that leaves room to be picked apart. However...as I mentioned above...

Alexis...what you say about yourself to my way of thinking "is" a success story. You carry on, you keep the head held high, you look great and you continue to move on with a smile on your face. I love seeing and hearing what you have to say. I'm much older then you, divorced not too long ago after 32 years and still trying to make back some of what I lost. Like you I'm getting there, slowly, but you have much more time than I do. lol! And like you, I'm not a cryer or a quitter either. My comments about you are meant to be only positive. I use your name only because you responded to the thread, I tried to respond as I know how. Maybe sometimes it's in the interpretation.

[Mugsammy]

thank you locomotion...

Mugs: People rarely get outright banned from these forums just for getting over emotional over a subject or disagreeing with the Admin, what I've seen has happened in the past is several warnings are usually given, then if the offender continues, they are blocked from signing in for a month or two as sort of a cooling off period.

Usually the TG forum habit is gone from their daily routine by that time and the majority of them just never return. Also, some are possibly just too offended to return.

But I say, whatever. The forum goes on and on regardless ...

What usually causes banning is outright insulting & degrading other members, name calling, racist garbage etc. Other than that, it's a pretty forgiving place.

So just relax and enjoy the reading ...

I was relaxed until someone thought they could tear me a new asshole. Then I wasn't relaxed but now I'm relaxed...until I read what Rider has to say and his asinine insinuation that I'm not very smart. Then I won't be relaxed again but then I will be relaxed shortly thereafter.

[Mugsammy]

Wrong...

Intelligence.....

A very general mental capability that, among other things, involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings—"catching on," "making sense" of things, or "figuring out" what to do.[5]

You have been given the definition of exploitation by Alexis three times now. Take from it what you wish. IMHO, you are far too emotional to reason with and as far as Crag and your opinions of him goes..... He owns the site, he can do what he pleases. Go along and you'll get along.
Cant wait to read your first review

read my comments again, especially my last to Alexis because some of it was in response to your earlier comments. I clearly understood what everyone was saying, I didn't make myself clear enough to you. That's my fault, maybe I gave you too much credit.

As for Crag...that's total BS! The rules are for all! If due to ownership a person feels they can mistreat, abuse and bully...no way Jose! I don't need this site to exist, it doesn't improve my life.

I keep my reviews to myself. If someone is bad and you shouldn't spend your money, I'll let you know and I have for several already. I have also defended several of whom I had met who I felt were getting a shitty rap. I have a very short list of interests, they know who they are...if it takes years in between to see them i can wait. For "I AM A PATIENT EXPLOITER!!!"

[Mugsammy]

numbers reading the thread...

Couple things..

I have not referred to nor would not consider myself a success story.. I'm just a happy person.. The 2008 recession along with a bad business start up in 2009 wiped me out financially.. I've been clawing my way out of debt since then and now I'm only about knee deep so it's not so bad.. I'll need another 5 years to get to the success story part.. The key.. being happy..

Secondly.. I think your OP article is not exploitation at all and is very clearly discrimination based on sexuality.. 2 totally different things.. If you want to redefine meanings the words in the dictionary this is not the place to do so.. You for instance can be seen as exploiting the article you posted to gain attention to your self.. then further exploiting it by being argumentative in relation to a dictionary definition of a word to gain further attention be it negative or positive..

Exploitation:
1) The action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work:
2) The fact of making use of a situation to gain unfair advantage for oneself

And people read the thread cuz it's near the top and has a catchy title.. nothing more..

has increased exponentially because there is shit flying...

[Rockheart]

read my comments again, especially my last to Alexis because some of it was in response to your earlier comments. I clearly understood what everyone was saying, I didn't make myself clear enough to you. That's my fault, maybe I gave you too much credit.

As for Crag...that's total BS! The rules are for all! If due to ownership a person feels they can mistreat, abuse and bully...no way Jose! I don't need this site to exist, it doesn't improve my life.

I keep my reviews to myself. If someone is bad and you shouldn't spend your money, I'll let you know and I have for several already. I have also defended several of whom I had met who I felt were getting a shitty rap. I have a very short list of interests, they know who they are...if it takes years in between to see them i can wait. For "I AM A PATIENT EXPLOITER!!!"

Nobody on any board gets away with telling Admin to fuck off, where have you been hiding?

I am not pulling rules on you I am mad because you treated me like shit by discounting my comments and saying they are all wrong without even discussing them. Then you insult me over and over and over. All I ever said to you is you were being rude by just bascially calling me and asshole and saying i'm wrong without any explanation. Now you say i am running the forum wrong.
You say my opinions are wrong and I am insulting you and everyone else. So if my opinion doesn't match yours, I am wrong?

Then you insult me saying i have no respect for TS?
You are the one the goes to escorts, whom you say you are exploiting.
In my mind there is possibly exploitation going both ways, however if someone does something of their own free will it is rarely exploitation. Do you think they get into business so you can be polite and not go see them. No they want you to see them.
Then you are trying to convince others not to go to escorts because it is exploitation.

I am sorry i talk the truth, but i am straight up, that is me.
If people are making the decision of transitioning and not thinking of the repercussions, they cannot blame the world for their choice plain and simple. Like I said there is many handicaps out there and some people have to live with them.
They are not blind, amputee, or any other serious infliction. This is mainly a sexual and gender issue, which is not life threatening or physcially limiting. As far as sex goes, it is not right for people to have sex. People have the freedom to have sex but there is no guarantees they will have it. So for someone saying transition is necessary but then making their life much shittier as a result makes no sense. Why should everyone have to suffer for one persons decision?
The decision to transition isn't always the best one in some situations. Often i think people are making rash decisions without thing of what might happen as a result. If you work at a job for 20 years then suddenly you do this, should you really expect everyone just to carry on and accept it? It won't happen and to say everyone else is the problem is wrong.

I am pretty good to members i think, you are the pompous dick who keeps saying what big meany I am.
The fact is I know thousands of tgirls and you don't.
I have seen, analyzed and discussed the situation over and over.

Every tgirl i have dealt with knows that I will go out of my way to help them.
I built my sites based on the knowledge of them and how they do business.
I go over and above helping TS every day of the week, what do you do?
Call down people like me over a debate that you are losing.

I never attacked you ever.
You asked me about Babe and I told you, then you told me i was wrong about just about everything.
I locked your thread before because you wouldn't stop insulting me, just like now.

All I did was get mad because you treated me like garbage when I spoke to your points.
Now you are telling me I am against TS and trying to put them down and saying i don't know how to run a forum and many other insults. You won't discuss my points but just say I am wrong or some kid is an asshole.
Not sure why child labour is not exploitation but grown adults escorting is. You don't explain your points well or at all.
You never once explain why TS cannot work somewhere else, you just sulk.

Grow up dude.
You do not have any idea what i am like.