Give Me A Bathroom Break! New proposed legislation.

[TSFantasia]

So the Right wing Bible thumping/toting and transphobic members of both US & Canadian government are busy trying to "protect the world" from us deviants and perverts (aka anyone who doesn't act or think like them.) Nevermind it's trans women who need protection from violence and sexual assaults in public bathrooms. Nevermind the whole idea that "trannies & crossdressers" are just deviant men trying to sneak into women's bathrooms to prey on vulnerable women and children is ludicrous and statistically unsubstantiated. Let's give ammunition and legal immunity to anyone, who nevermind is barring the cross dresser with a five o'clock shadow from using the women's bathroom but also the right for any bigoted men or women to feel justified in attacking any trans woman who has the audacity to use the bathroom that matches her gender identity!

While all you T-girl enthusiasts wouldn't mind a Sunshine, Lola, Lucy, etc pulling up in the urinal next to you to drain their huge snakes


In reality this would result in a huge increase in verbal and physical and sexual assaults on real trans women while the majority of the cross dressers & drag queens are using the men's bathrooms anyways on their T-Girl for a night outings.
So unlike MP Rob Anders please DO SUPPORT Bill C-279 put forward by NDP MP Randall Garrison .

http://www.theweek.co.uk/62891/trans...rovoke-protest

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/10...bill-proposal/

[Rockheart]

So the Right wing Bible thumping/toting and transphobic members of both US & Canadian government are busy trying to "protect the world" from us deviants and perverts (aka anyone who doesn't act or think like them.) Nevermind it's trans women who need protection from violence and sexual assaults in public bathrooms. Nevermind the whole idea that "trannies & crossdressers" are just deviant men trying to sneak into women's bathrooms to prey on vulnerable women and children is ludicrous and statistically unsubstantiated. Let's give ammunition and legal immunity to anyone, who nevermind is barring the cross dresser with a five o'clock shadow from using the women's bathroom but also the right for any bigoted men or women to feel justified in attacking any trans woman who has the audacity to use the bathroom that matches her gender identity!

While all you T-girl enthusiasts wouldn't mind a Sunshine, Lola, Lucy, etc pulling up in the urinal next to you to drain their huge snakes


In reality this would result in a huge increase in verbal and physical and sexual assaults on real trans women while the majority of the cross dressers & drag queens are using the men's bathrooms anyways on their T-Girl for a night outings.
So unlike MP Rob Anders please DO SUPPORT Bill C-279 put forward by NDP MP Randall Garrison .

http://www.theweek.co.uk/62891/trans...rovoke-protest

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/10...bill-proposal/

There is only 3 real solutions to this. (or a combination.)
1. Only people with female ids can use the female washroom.
2. Build a third gender neutral bathroom.
2. Build children only bathrooms, that can only be accessed by children and guardians.

Unfortunately anyone that self declares as transgender thinks they should have right to use the female bathroom always.
Since this mean any person can do this anytime it doesn't make much sense to try and make rule around it because there is no rules. The way the community works today is that if you self declare your wishes should be observed by all, no matter their view. This isn't really fair to the general population because you can just self declare one minute you are transgendered and then recant it 2 minutes later.

No one is going to accept crossdresser in the mens or womens washrooms.
However since crossdressing is mainly a fetish they should have to keep this activity discreet.
If you go out dressed for thrills, you should at least try and use the handicapped or family washroom.
Or just keep it in private or places that accept this sort of thing.

I know transgenders feel strongly about be recognized.
However other people don't feel the same way. If you look like a man, you are a man to them no matter what you say.
If you're id says male and you look male, you don't have much choice but the use the mens washroom.
You can complain all you want, but how are other people supposed to know what is in your heard, or how are they supposed to be able to tell a crossdresser from a Transgender? Well they just can't.

Everything about a transgender has some relation to gender and sex and this is what makes parents uncomfortable.
It also bothers parents that many advocates of transgenderism go around making it sound like it is a viable life choice, not something you do because you have a disorder. People can decide their sexuality on their own without other people trying to influence it. Whether children should be exposed to complex sexual issues is very questionable.

In my experience being exposed to sex unnecessarily as a child, ruined my childhood.
I think exposing children to sex and gender to early may warp the natural decisions they make growing up, it sure did for me.

Some people will always see transgenders as perverts and you will never ever change them.
Fighting is not going to gain anything, the best that can be done is compromise.

[TSFantasia]

There is only 3 real solutions to this. (or a combination.)
1. Only people with female ids can use the female washroom.
2. Build a third gender neutral bathroom.
2. Build children only bathrooms, that can only be accessed by children and guardians.

Unfortunately anyone that self declares as transgender thinks they should have right to use the female bathroom always.
Since this mean any person can do this anytime it doesn't make much sense to try and make rule around it because there is no rules. The way the community works today is that if you self declare your wishes should be observed by all, no matter their view. This isn't really fair to the general population because you can just self declare one minute you are transgendered and then recant it 2 minutes later.

No one is going to accept crossdresser in the mens or womens washrooms.
However since crossdressing is mainly a fetish they should have to keep this activity discreet.
If you go out dressed for thrills, you should at least try and use the handicapped or family washroom.
Or just keep it in private or places that accept this sort of thing.

I know transgenders feel strongly about be recognized.
However other people don't feel the same way. If you look like a man, you are a man to them no matter what you say.
If you're id says male and you look male, you don't have much choice but the use the mens washroom.
You can complain all you want, but how are other people supposed to know what is in your heard, or how are they supposed to be able to tell a crossdresser from a Transgender? Well they just can't.

Everything about a transgender has some relation to gender and sex and this is what makes parents uncomfortable.
It also bothers parents that many advocates of transgenderism go around making it sound like it is a viable life choice, not something you do because you have a disorder. People can decide their sexuality on their own without other people trying to influence it. Whether children should be exposed to complex sexual issues is very questionable.

In my experience being exposed to sex unnecessarily as a child, ruined my childhood.
I think exposing children to sex and gender to early may warp the natural decisions they make growing up, it sure did for me.

Some people will always see transgenders as perverts and you will never ever change them.
Fighting is not going to gain anything, the best that can be done is compromise.

Definitely does NOT help the progress of transgender rights that every dude with a cross dressing fetish wants to be called a T-Girl
every time he puts on a pair of nylons and panties. The idea of female IDs can work if there were consistency in all provinces/states in allowing true trans women/men to change their gender markers as long as they have shown that they are truly in transition ie letters from therapist, on HRT, etc. Many Provinces/States do not allow transgenders to change their gender marker without full SRS completion, which is unfair to those who do not have the financial means to have it done and those who do not intend to have it done.
I don't think that most in the trans community want the "third gender" option as it keeps us from being recognized in our gender identity and makes us a target for discrimination. I think most parents always accompany their children to public bathrooms or at least check that the "coast is clear" before sending their little ones in so no need for children/accompanying parents only bathrooms.


To suggest that these rights and courtesies only be extended to those you or others deem sufficiently "passable" or "femininely attractive"
enough isn't going to be fair to trans women, who vary in this degree just as much as genetic women vary from "butt-fuck ugly" to "drop dead gorgeous".

"Everything about a transgender has some relation to gender and sex and this is what makes parents uncomfortable."
I don't think anything about the concept of gender makes parents uncomfortable the concept of male/ female, boys/girls isn't a scary concept and there is nothing sexual about a transgender using the bathroom to pee or poop, washing their hands and carrying on with their day.

I do see the need to separate those who are truly transgender and moving forward in their transitions and those who "self declare" themselves as such and want to jump on the bandwagon without having gone through therapy and are not under physicians care in regards to their HRT and transition needs.

[Shyla Wild]

There is another simple solution. Genderless bathrooms. Nothing sexual should be going on in the washroom anyways. Sexual Predator excuses are invalid as a predator could be just as interested in little boys as he or she is in little girls.

This is the solution. Not wasting tax payer money on third gender or children's washrooms. We are all the same. 60 years ago we had coloured washrooms in the south. They made different washrooms for black people. Why? Today we look at that and we find that racist and hillbilly thinking. Yet, in 2015 we cannot see that it's exactly the same problem, and the solution is not divide people, but put them together.

Is it fair that you have to be passable to use a women's washroom? No. Do I like the fact that every dude that puts on a pair of panties thinks he is a Trans-woman? No. Do I want this sex driven group associated with me and my sisters? Absolutely not, they do more damage than good to my community. But, someone is going to scream "Civil Rights". A gender less restroom removes any of these issues, just like a washroom without judgement of Color did many years ago.

[Rockheart]

Definitely does NOT help the progress of transgender rights that every dude with a cross dressing fetish wants to be called a T-Girl
every time he puts on a pair of nylons and panties. The idea of female IDs can work if there were consistency in all provinces/states in allowing true trans women/men to change their gender markers as long as they have shown that they are truly in transition ie letters from therapist, on HRT, etc. Many Provinces/States do not allow transgenders to change their gender marker without full SRS completion, which is unfair to those who do not have the financial means to have it done and those who do not intend to have it done.
I don't think that most in the trans community want the "third gender" option as it keeps us from being recognized in our gender identity and makes us a target for discrimination. I think most parents always accompany their children to public bathrooms or at least check that the "coast is clear" before sending their little ones in so no need for children/accompanying parents only bathrooms.


To suggest that these rights and courtesies only be extended to those you or others deem sufficiently "passable" or "femininely attractive"
enough isn't going to be fair to trans women, who vary in this degree just as much as genetic women vary from "butt-fuck ugly" to "drop dead gorgeous".

"Everything about a transgender has some relation to gender and sex and this is what makes parents uncomfortable."
I don't think anything about the concept of gender makes parents uncomfortable the concept of male/ female, boys/girls isn't a scary concept and there is nothing sexual about a transgender using the bathroom to pee or poop, washing their hands and carrying on with their day.

I do see the need to separate those who are truly transgender and moving forward in their transitions and those who "self declare" themselves as such and want to jump on the bandwagon without having gone through therapy and are not under physicians care in regards to their HRT and transition needs.

If you want transgender rights then there has to be some acknowledgement of a third state of Gender.
To me is all a spectrum of one gender, and i don't really see the need for so much "sex changing".
I don't think you are necessarily deformed if you feel more feminine or masculine than you body appears.
It just where you sit on the spectrum.

But for law there has to be black and white unfortunately.
If transgenders want rights under the law their status cannot be wish washy, there has to be a firm definition.
This means TS either have to agree to a third gender or you have to be a female or male.
If you are male you have no transgender rights, basically.

Unfortunately our society is too confrontational and the needs of the few seem to always outweigh the needs of the many.
One person screaming for equality always seem to get their way over the majority of people.

In Thailand where they have the most transgenders anywhere, the problem is partially resolved because of the religious culture and their feeling they have to respect the rights of all others. That they are only one person and should not try to make everyone else always change to fit them. Often when they are starting out and they are not passable, they always dress androgynously when they go out and use the mens washroom. Of course if they go out at night clubbing or whatever they will dress up.
In the employment world they will never force a business to hire them when they are not passable and may upset customers.
They will always present a male personae at work until such time as they are transitioned to a state they are accepted as a woman. I don't think but ugly is an issue but there is a point you are just not a convincing female. You can be ugly as fuck and still be accepted as female.
But this is all a respect for others built into their religion and culture. As a result of this respect for others, they are more respected themselves. They will still apply for jobs and such, but they won't start a whole civil rights movement if they don't get the job. Here businesses may get pickets for the same thing.

Anyways in Thailand they have added third gender neutral bathrooms in most schools. I think this is probably the worst place for discrimination of all because kids are mean. However in Thailand if a child shows signs of being transgender, they don't try to hide it or encourage it, they just let them live their natural lives. Here we think we need to take action of some sort.
That is our problem here too much action and not enough understanding of each other which would lead to tolerance.
Everything is butting heads in Canada anyway.

[Rockheart]

There is another simple solution. Genderless bathrooms. Nothing sexual should be going on in the washroom anyways. Sexual Predator excuses are invalid as a predator could be just as interested in little boys as he or she is in little girls.

This is the solution. Not wasting tax payer money on third gender or children's washrooms. We are all the same. 60 years ago we had coloured washrooms in the south. They made different washrooms for black people. Why? Today we look at that and we find that racist and hillbilly thinking. Yet, in 2015 we cannot see that it's exactly the same problem, and the solution is not divide people, but put them together.

Is it fair that you have to be passable to use a women's washroom? No. Do I like the fact that every dude that puts on a pair of panties thinks he is a Trans-woman? No. Do I want this sex driven group associated with me and my sisters? Absolutely not, they do more damage than good to my community. But, someone is going to scream "Civil Rights". A gender less restroom removes any of these issues, just like a washroom without judgement of Color did many years ago.

There should just be individual gender neutral bathrooms available.
There is already handicap and family washrooms most places that could be increased in number.

Problem with genderless washrooms would be women I think.
Women are the main ones who want their own space. In reality it should just be going 1 or 2 and washing your hands.
However the women's washroom as taken on a bit of social aspect for one thing, women like to go there together and talk and shit.
The other problem is women have other needs than men such as menstruation. This is something many women don't like men to see, just like they don't like to see men see or smell them shit. Women like to maintain the air that they never shit or smell or anything, you know this to be true. Some women won't even admit they fart. Women need to maintain some illusions to men.

I see it all the time at clubs and events. If a women comes in the mens washroom, nobody cares.
But if a man ever tried to come into the women's there would be a scene, always.
Men never try to go into the women's washroom.

But over all it is women that have the security problem it is not just sexual.
However menstruation is actually sexual in nature.

[xoxJanexox]

This issue comes very often when its very simple one in reality. I really doubt that a fetish cross-dresser would jump to women restroom in the middle of a day. Most, if not all of them, are actually limited to their homes, or those occasional night outs to a gay bar, etc.

The reality about this issue is very straightforward, if the girl is passable, there would be absolutely no issue. But, for girls who are not, there are indeed some issues. It might not be fair because as long as the girl is sincere she should be accepted. On the other hand, if a girl decided transitioning late in life, she should give herself some time to re-shape a little bit.

Genetic women simply won't mind anyone fitting into their own tripe to share their private areas.

[Shyla Wild]

There should just be individual gender neutral bathrooms available.
There is already handicap and family washrooms most places that could be increased in number.

Problem with genderless washrooms would be women I think.
Women are the main ones who want their own space. In reality it should just be going 1 or 2 and washing your hands.
However the women's washroom as taken on a bit of social aspect for one thing, women like to go there together and talk and shit.
The other problem is women have other needs than men such as menstruation. This is something many women don't like men to see, just like they don't like to see men see or smell them shit. Women like to maintain the air that they never shit or smell or anything, you know this to be true. Some women won't even admit they fart. Women need to maintain some illusions to men.

I see it all the time at clubs and events. If a women comes in the mens washroom, nobody cares.
But if a man ever tried to come into the women's there would be a scene, always.
Men never try to go into the women's washroom.

But over all it is women that have the security problem it is not just sexual.
However menstruation is actually sexual in nature.

Change the word "women/woman" to "white people", change "men/man/TS" to "black People" and change "gender" to "colour". Now, reread what you wrote. It's amazing how it sounds like segregation of Blacks in the southern USA in the 50s.

i agree that the problem is women. It is always them trampling on our rights. They obviously have forgotten that they couldn't even vote 60 years ago, now that they got their civil rights they now have the right to step on other people.

[Shyla Wild]

to share their private areas.

Quite hypocrisy don't you think? A private area in a public place?

[xoxJanexox]

Quite hypocrisy don't you think? A private area in a public place?

Public washroom area for women is a private area for them, otherwise, men as well may step in.

[Rockheart]

Change the word "women/woman" to "white people", change "men/man/TS" to "black People" and change "gender" to "colour". Now, reread what you wrote. It's amazing how it sounds like segregation of Blacks in the southern USA in the 50s.

i agree that the problem is women. It is always them trampling on our rights. They obviously have forgotten that they couldn't even vote 60 years ago, now that they got their civil rights they now have the right to step on other people.

That makes no sense. Gender is not colour. Everyone has gender, not everyone has colour.
Don't try and turn this into a race thing because it is not.
Women have a natural tendency to be standoffish to men, it is not that they are being intolerant to men.
It is in the makeup of a woman to hide from men, play hard to get or cause a man grief, it is all part of the give and take of the genders. In olden times the male was strong enough to over power their mate and have their way, so that idea of being safe from men is built right into the genes. Naturally women would not associate with a man that they don't deem a suitable mating partner. Where as men can view all women as mating partners. A lot of things we call discrimination is just natural selection.
Most likely the main reason men tried to keep women down is that women hold most of the power in society as a whole. In a culture where brawn gives men no advantage over women, women control almost every situation. Now they even have discrimination on their side.

If women view someone as a man there is a problem.
So really the whole issue is how someone is presented.

In the end this has to fit laws, not reality.
Legally and physically you are a man until you become a woman no matter what colour you are or how you feel in your mind.
Women basically are not discriminating against transgenders, they are discriminating against men.
As a group women want rights to do anything they want including men stuff, men would rather do men stuff along but they don't really care if women want to join. However women rarely want men involved in their shit, and men don't usually care.
And as long as men are always consider a threat to rape or assault women, nothing will change.
The fact is society as a whole thinks any man could break down and commit sexual offenses given the opportunity.
This means that transgenders are grouped into this distrust of men.
Unfortunately a few bad men have tainted the entire lot.

Ideally there should just be an increased number of private washrooms, then people wanting privacy for whatever reason could have it.
Like i say having intersex private bathrooms would work, it's just when you try to make a shared public facility.
It just won't work.

[Shyla Wild]

That makes no sense. Gender is not colour. Everyone has gender, not everyone has colour.
Don't try and turn this into a race thing because it is not.
Women have a natural tendency to be standoffish to men, it is not that they are being intolerant to men.
It is in the makeup of a woman to hide from men, play hard to get or cause a man grief, it is all part of the give and take of the genders. In olden times the male was strong enough to over power their mate and have their way, so that idea of being safe from men is built right into the genes. Naturally women would not associate with a man that they don't deem a suitable mating partner. Where as men can view all women as mating partners. A lot of things we call discrimination is just natural selection.
Most likely the main reason men tried to keep women down is that women hold most of the power in society as a whole. In a culture where brawn gives men no advantage over women, women control almost every situation. Now they even have discrimination on their side.

If women view someone as a man there is a problem.
So really the whole issue is how someone is presented.

In the end this has to fit laws, not reality.
Legally and physically you are a man until you become a woman no matter what colour you are or how you feel in your mind.
Women basically are not discriminating against transgenders, they are discriminating against men.
As a group women want rights to do anything they want including men stuff, men would rather do men stuff along but they don't really care if women want to join. However women rarely want men involved in their shit, and men don't usually care.
And as long as men are always consider a threat to rape or assault women, nothing will change.
The fact is society as a whole thinks any man could break down and commit sexual offenses given the opportunity.
This means that transgenders are grouped into this distrust of men.
Unfortunately a few bad men have tainted the entire lot.

Ideally there should just be an increased number of private washrooms, then people wanting privacy for whatever reason could have it.
Like i say having intersex private bathrooms would work, it's just when you try to make a shared public facility.
It just won't work.

Everyone does not have colour? Just because you are white doesn't means you don't have a color. Race thing? No. it's a Civil Rights case which ANY Lawyer when arguing a Law and Change will pull out cases from the past in which the Law was changed. Such as segregation laws violating human rights issues in the South 60 years ago.

If women don't feel safe, maybe society should take a look at why they are not safe, instead of freaking out on the trans community that just wants to pee and get out of there.

Your argument is exactly what they said about mixing blacks and whites inthe south. "women would not be safe" " blacks are dirty and carry disease" "white need the space from blacks" and they mixed race bathroom would not work. But it did and still does.

A public bathroom is a place to do your business and leave...NOT a place for Shelter from the outside world (that is your home), protection (that is the police) and not a social ground to discuss the night (that's facebook). So maybe women should use the washroom as intended.

its funny how women want to do all the things that men want to do to be equal. But when we try to put the bathrooms together it's the end of the world. Nice equality

[JerryW]

Legislation is not new.This passed by the wayside a cple of years ago,it was one of many amendments added so another bill would not be passed..Is someone on dial up here lol

[TSFantasia]

Legislation is not new.This passed by the wayside a cple of years ago,it was one of many amendments added so another bill would not be passed..Is someone on dial up here lol

Yes you are right about that Bill C-279 did pass in the House of Commons 2 yrs ago this is the link I should have posted an attempt being made to amend C-279 by Conservative Senator Don Plett .

"Amendment to Bill C-279 goes beyond bathroom issue says transgendered Victoria womanSharePrint
March 11, 2015 03:18 from James Gardner The issue of bathrooms has come up recently in the Canadian Senate.

Conservative Senator, Don Plett has introduced an amendment to Bill C-279 stating that anyone not "biologically male" should not be allowed to use a woman's washroom in order to protect vulnerable women and children"

More current link on what is happening now and very good CBC interview with Amanda Ryan a trans woman and trans rights activist worth watching.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tran...ment-1.2975024

[Alexis]

The bill is dead..

This bill will not pass before the election and the Liberal government after will not pass it.. It's as good as dead..

What we should be seriously concerned about is Bill C-51 and how it strips our rights while creating a secret police force that is above the law..

Bill C-51 is a direct path to a police state system.. It must be stopped!