Orlando Massacre Shooter: Terrorist? Homophobe? Self-loathing Closeted Gay?

[TSFantasia]

The world and especially the LGBTQ community worldwide is in shock and mourning over America's worst ever mass shooting, which occurred at Pulse nightclub a popular gay club. Forty-nine innocent victims lost their lives and dozens others wounded many still in critical condition.
While the details of the story is still developing and the motive for the attack under investigation.
The shooter called 911 half way into his killing spree to express loyalty to ISIS, which makes it a terrorist attack. His father said he was very angry over seeing two men kissing a few weeks before the attack, which makes it a homophobic hate crime. Details are now coming out that the shooter was a regular at the Club was often there trying to pick up men, which makes him a self-loathing closeted gay man.

This isn't surprising as people are often in this state of self-loathing, self-guilt over the conflict between their "sinful" desires and activities and their traditional or religious beliefs. People will do crazy things to try to "redeem" themselves from their actions and place the blame on the "devils" who tempted them into the wrong-doing in the first place. Many trans women are beaten or die at the hands of their lovers/ex-lovers who fear being "exposed" as a tranny lover.

There are so many examples of preachers/evangelists, who loudly condemn sexual sins only to be caught carrying on affairs, frequenting prostitutes, or involved in gay encounters.

Whatever the reasons for this attack it's a sad loss of the family and friends of the victims and a sad day for the LGBTQ community worldwide.

[Rockheart]

What i hate about this whole incident the most, is everyone trying to label it.

He is a fucking mass murderer all the other labels are fucking useless and just political bullshit.

Labels are for idiots and gossipers.

For some reason everyone is not complete unless they can label him a hater, a homophob, terrorist, a extemrist, hate crime, terror crime. Blah blah blah.

It doesn't fucking matter one bit what you label him.

He is a person that committed mass murder.
There is no confusion, it doesn't have to be labelled a hate crime or terrorism.

They guy committed MASS MURDER and he is dead now, why does it really matter.
Nobody will ever actually know and it just doesn't matter what you label him because he is DEAD DEAD DEAD.
If they determined he worked alone, any other reason doesn't really matter much.

Instead of labels maybe talk about getting assault rifles off the street and not worrying about where he hated gays or not.
This is not specifically a gay issue it is a human issue and something needs to be done about the ongoing mass murder of citizens of any kind!! PERIOD!!!
Special interest groups are useless in getting any action because they don't represent the majority. If you are against murder be against all murders not just the murders of certain people. Every person is equal and every person matters, not just a certain few.

[TSFantasia]

What i hate about this whole incident the most, is everyone trying to label it.

He is a fucking mass murderer all the other labels are fucking useless and just political bullshit.

Labels are for idiots and gossipers.

For some reason everyone is not complete unless they can label him a hater, a homophob, terrorist, a extemrist, hate crime, terror crime. Blah blah blah.

It doesn't fucking matter one bit what you label him.

He is a person that committed mass murder.
There is no confusion, it doesn't have to be labelled a hate crime or terrorism.

They guy committed MASS MURDER and he is dead now, why does it really matter.
Nobody will ever actually know and it just doesn't matter what you label him because he is DEAD DEAD DEAD.
If they determined he worked alone, any other reason doesn't really matter much.

Instead of labels maybe talk about getting assault rifles off the street and not worrying about where he hated gays or not.
This is not specifically a gay issue it is a human issue and something needs to be done about the ongoing mass murder of citizens of any kind!! PERIOD!!!
Special interest groups are useless in getting any action because they don't represent the majority. If you are against murder be against all murders not just the murders of certain people. Every person is equal and every person matters, not just a certain few.

Couldn't disagree with you MORE!! What this person's motives and reasons were for this mass murder will determine what authorities, courts, government need to do both in investigating and bringing any accomplices to justice and what they need to do to prevent future incidents like this from happening.

[Alexis]

Instead of labels maybe talk about getting assault rifles off the street and not worrying about where he hated gays or not.

I'd like to point out that France has some of the toughest gun laws around.. Tougher than Canada's.. Yet they have fallen victim to multiple terror attacks with fully automatic firearms.. Gun laws will not change the problem of crazies with guns and criminals with guns and terrorists with guns..

I do believe in detailed background checks tho, but again.. you cannot stop the crazies.. you can only deal with the aftermath..

The gay clubs here in Vancouver need to get their shit together on their security, get on the bar watch program and search people like Celebrities does.. Celebs has excellent security, the guys wear vests, there's undercover security, they have radios and an action plan for most scenarios including a crazy with a gun.. There's no way anyone should get in the door of any club with an AR15!

Not to put blame, and I'm not, but any club with lax security is very dangerous.. bad shit can happen when you add drugs & alcohol to humans..

As for the guy that did this.. My "opinion" thus far is that he came from a somewhat extreme right wing Muslim family.. He was likely a conflicted man that called out to his father in disgust as he saw 2 men kissing only to hide to what his father would have been a shameful sin.. He probably had lots of social problems trying to fit in and may have felt rejected by the gay community as well..

He thought about it for a couple of days.. he specifically went out and legally bought the rifle, amo and extra clips to do this.. he probably couldn't face the fear of coming out and shaming his father, his family.. the religious ideology was so deeply entrenched in him that the only way he could see to make this right was to do this..

His father was a wingnut and very far right.. the blame here lies with him.. he's currently being investigated by the FBI..

Gun laws don't fix this.. education fixes this.. openness fixes this.. we have way more Muslims here in Canada and you can get an AR15 here if you qualify for a PAL.. It takes about 60 seconds to modify the clip to go from 5 rounds to 30.. It's a cheap assault rifle and that's why it's chosen so often.. There's much better choices available at most gun shops in Canada.. But we have less crazies because of better education and social programs..

While I am an optimist I am quite confident that we could be in for a terror shit storm.. Canada is full of illegal weapons, grenades, RPG's and all kinds of stuff that you would not think possible.. How do they get it in? Well they just hide it with all the cocaine and heroin that comes in.. we know that gets in and changing gun laws won't change that..

[Shyla Wild]

How about some better questions?

How does someone buy a weapon like this so easily? At what point does a weapon called an Assault Rifle considered self defense or used to defend yourself? How would you even be able to defend yourself with a weapon you cannot openly carry?

[Mouthwideopen]

Warning: Labels and generalities ahead!

I'm honestly shocked at the responses here. I'm all for tighter gun controls. It would be nice if the U.S. could make it so that assault rifles can only be used in controlled shooting ranges- but I don't see that happening anytime soon. As Alexis has already pointed out... many adjustments can be made to existing rifles and guns to turn them into auto and semi-automatic weapons.

Let's say you ban guns entirely (impossible by any stretch of the imagination). Then you would have to ban the sales of pressure cookers and ball bearings as used in the Boston marathon bombing (the executors of which Omar Mateen praised in his 911 call from the nightclub whilst pledging allegiance to ISIL). By the time you ban pressure cookers someone will have come up with an easy diy explosive device made of things bought at the local shoppers drug mart.

I'm amazed at the reluctance of everyone to tie this repressed gay psycho's actions to his faith. I'm amazed that so few here understand how gays are treated in Muslim countries. I wonder how many of you have friends living openly gay lives in Saudi Arabia or Morocco? Let's at least be honest about this issue... I think that the gays beaten and killed in Europe as of late would really appreciate it. From my perspective a country can have gay rights or Muslims but not both. Same goes for women's rights.

There are very good reasons why Germany had to open a separate refugee camp specifically for gays and lesbians. There are reasons why public swimming pools in both Germany and Sweden now have hours divided for segregation by gender and some outright banning asylum seekers after numerous reported assaults.

I personally "label" myself as agnostic. I simply cannot relate to any theist be they Christian, Muslim, Scieftologist or Buddhist that wants to talk about virgins that give birth or horses with wings. I don't care who anyone's favourite sky monster is. Yes Catholics have done horrendous things... and their numbers are dwindling because of it.

Yes the history of Catholicism had it's darker days of brutality, war and death.... that was literally centuries ago. I see all of these theologies as types of diseases. We as a society are not worried about polio anymore... because it's in our past... it isn't as dangerous as it once was. These days we put more research and treatment into things like Cancer because it is taking many of our lives. I've never seen videos of Catholics throwing gays off of rooftops to plummet -hands tied- to their deaths... only Islamists. Islam is the theological cancer of our times. Btw if you've never seen such videos you really should search them out... you may be horrified but it will certainly set you straight about how the muslim world - and more importantly it's doctrine the Quran views homosexuality.

I guess I'm an idiot for using labels and generalities. In general birds fly. Some birds don't but the much greater majority do... the "not all" argument is a waste of time as the exceptions prove the rule. In general gays and women are not treated well in countries that are majority Muslim. This just happens to be the truth. Hiding the truth away for the sake of political correctness won't stop Imam's in the U.S. from giving lectures... -one of them just weeks ago in Orlando - about how killing gays is the merciful and humane thing to do:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ando-said-gay/

Q: If it were instead a right wing southern religious dolt of the abortion clinic bombing variety that had instead shot up Pulse nightclub.... would we be afraid to talk about his faith? Would we ignore what motivated his actions? Would we ignore priests that preach about how committing such acts is merciful? I don't think so. I long for a time when we thinking apes can move past this obsession with finding our creators.... until then can we all just call a spade a spade?

For those who would label me an "Islamophobe" I'll remind you that Islam is a religion - not a race. Also no group suffers more deaths and torture under Islam than Muslims themselves.... especially if they're not straight.

Btw; the sentence "gay thrown from building" yields 1,330,000 results on google.

[F100]

We can all be happy the SOB is dead and will never hurt anyone again. While it does appear from the press reports that he had issues with gays and may have even exhibited some gay tendencies himself, he pledged allegiance to ISIS while murdering all those people. He was a freakin TERRORIST !! The FBI investigated him twice from 2013 -2014. Obama has handcuffed the Law Enforcement Community with all his "politically correct" directives. Bad guys will always find a way to kill. More gun laws will not stop them. Two Police Officers were just stabbed to death in France by another Terrorist. We all need to be very vigilant and report suspicious activity to the authorities.

[TSFantasia]

I'm honestly shocked at the responses here. I'm all for tighter gun controls. It would be nice if the U.S. could make it so that assault rifles can only be used in controlled shooting ranges- but I don't see that happening anytime soon. As Alexis has already pointed out... many adjustments can be made to existing rifles and guns to turn them into auto and semi-automatic weapons.

Let's say you ban guns entirely (impossible by any stretch of the imagination). Then you would have to ban the sales of pressure cookers and ball bearings as used in the Boston marathon bombing (the executors of which Omar Mateen praised in his 911 call from the nightclub whilst pledging allegiance to ISIL). By the time you ban pressure cookers someone will have come up with an easy diy explosive device made of things bought at the local shoppers drug mart.

I'm amazed at the reluctance of everyone to tie this repressed gay psycho's actions to his faith. I'm amazed that so few here understand how gays are treated in Muslim countries. I wonder how many of you have friends living openly gay lives in Saudi Arabia or Morocco? Let's at least be honest about this issue... I think that the gays beaten and killed in Europe as of late would really appreciate it. From my perspective a country can have gay rights or Muslims but not both. Same goes for women's rights.

There are very good reasons why Germany had to open a separate refugee camp specifically for gays and lesbians. There are reasons why public swimming pools in both Germany and Sweden now have hours divided for segregation by gender and some outright banning asylum seekers after numerous reported assaults.

I personally "label" myself as agnostic. I simply cannot relate to any theist be they Christian, Muslim, Scieftologist or Buddhist that wants to talk about virgins that give birth or horses with wings. I don't care who anyone's favourite sky monster is. Yes Catholics have done horrendous things... and their numbers are dwindling because of it.

Yes the history of Catholicism had it's darker days of brutality, war and death.... that was literally centuries ago. I see all of these theologies as types of diseases. We as a society are not worried about polio anymore... because it's in our past... it isn't as dangerous as it once was. These days we put more research and treatment into things like Cancer because it is taking many of our lives. I've never seen videos of Catholics throwing gays off of rooftops to plummet -hands tied- to their deaths... only Islamists. Islam is the theological cancer of our times. Btw if you've never seen such videos you really should search them out... you may be horrified but it will certainly set you straight about how the muslim world - and more importantly it's doctrine the Quran views homosexuality.

I guess I'm an idiot for using labels and generalities. In general birds fly. Some birds don't but the much greater majority do... the "not all" argument is a waste of time as the exceptions prove the rule. In general gays and women are not treated well in countries that are majority Muslim. This just happens to be the truth. Hiding the truth away for the sake of political correctness won't stop Imam's in the U.S. from giving lectures... -one of them just weeks ago in Orlando - about how killing gays is the merciful and humane thing to do:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ando-said-gay/

Q: If it were instead a right wing southern religious dolt of the abortion clinic bombing variety that had instead shot up Pulse nightclub.... would we be afraid to talk about his faith? Would we ignore what motivated his actions? Would we ignore priests that preach about how committing such acts is merciful? I don't think so. I long for a time when we thinking apes can move past this obsession with finding our creators.... until then can we all just call a spade a spade?

For those who would label me an "Islamophobe" I'll remind you that Islam is a religion - not a race. Also no group suffers more deaths and torture under Islam than Muslims themselves.... especially if they're not straight.

Btw; the sentence "gay thrown from building" yields 1,330,000 results on google.

I pretty much agree with most of your assessment. I see Muslims & Islam not as a race but as a dangerous religious ideology and definitely anti-women's rights and anti-LGBT at it's core. While not everyone who identifies as Muslim is an extremist or would condone violence against the "infidels" those who become disillusioned, disenfranchised, or isolated with western society are definitely more susceptible to becoming radicalized and resort to violence as the Orlando shooter appears to have been. It's a natural thing for people to react with fear, anger, and suspicion towards the Muslim community as more and more of these horrific events occur, which makes more Muslims feel disenfranchised and isolated and the cycle continues.

[alex99]

How about some better questions?

How does someone buy a weapon like this so easily? At what point does a weapon called an Assault Rifle considered self defense or used to defend yourself? How would you even be able to defend yourself with a weapon you cannot openly carry?

You need it just in case your neighbour decides to attack you while driving a tank.

[Mouthwideopen]

It's a natural thing for people to react with fear, anger, and suspicion towards the Muslim community as more and more of these horrific events occur, which makes more Muslims feel disenfranchised and isolated and the cycle continues.

Another thing that allows the cycle to continue is the walls of silence surrounding attackers like Omar Mateen. FBI has recently found footage of his wife buying the ammunition used in the attack. In San Bernardino many friends and family of the attackers had seen bombs,guns and bomb making equipment littering their apartment. In Belgium and France the attackers often hide in their own communities as many surrounding them keep their lips sealed. The silence of Muslims in communities inside non-muslim countries is not helping anymore than genuine racists that feed the flames IMO.

With the factual history of what has occurred....... it's little wonder that people react with fear, anger and suspicion. It is the healthy reaction. It really isn't a muslim thing. If it were people who believe in a flying spaghetti monster that were killing people and then protecting the killers in their own communities... I and others would react with fear, anger and suspicion towards people who believe in a flying spaghetti monster. We don't do ourselves any favours by coddling and tiptoeing around every group that holds beliefs that are contrary to our western values (ie gender equality and acceptance of homosexuality).

I'm not sorry if I offend anyone. The freedoms to enjoy what you want in the bedroom is worth offending people for. The freedoms of equality regardless of gender is worth offending people for. These freedoms we westerners enjoy were earned over many years through hard work, blood and tears and we shouldn't forget that. I don't have the answers but I'm pretty sure the Quran, Bible, Hadith or any other religious text doesn't have them either.

[Alexis]

I'm not sorry if I offend anyone. The freedoms to enjoy what you want in the bedroom is worth offending people for. The freedoms of equality regardless of gender is worth offending people for. These freedoms we westerners enjoy were earned over many years through hard work, blood and tears and we shouldn't forget that. I don't have the answers but I'm pretty sure the Quran, Bible, Hadith or any other religious text doesn't have them either.

I agree that freedom is worth fighting for.. but I totally disagree with your view of how the western society became free..

For 500 years westerners have used slavery & oppression of the lower class to rise to the top. They have committed the greatest atrocities, genocides & mass murders of all time. The west continues to enslave the poor while those that grow our food starve..

We start wars for oil, put dictators in power that we know are corrupt and evil. Our media lies to hide the sins of the rich and money lets you murder.. They tell us that they are bombing for democracy.. It's a lie..

We are not free.. we are slaves to a system of oppression that feeds the greedy.. that is part of the problem..

The west will continue to wage war for profit as millions die.. and people wonder why when this shit happens..

If you want a really scary religious text.. Read the Talmud.. It's the jewish holy book that proclaims them as the only humans and declares the rest of us as animals.. How if a jew kills a non-jew it's not murder.. It's far more extreme than the Koran..

The reality is that the rich who rule the world have the means to end poverty, end homelessness, end war and end hunger.. but they don't, they are greedy, evil, corrupt, our rulers and our masters..

Canada was built on Genocide..

All the cheap shit we buy is made by slave labour & our government continues to support the war of Terror..

PS: If you want to know about the reality of the west and Islam read up on the history of what happened in the middle east from 1800-1948.. The people there have been progressively oppressed by the west since the fall of the Ottoman empire.. The USA wants the oil and will do whatever is required, no matter how evil, to get it..

[alex99]

I'm not even convinced that this guy was a closeted gay. It just seems a little too convenient, especially considering the violence being committed against LGBTQ people in so many Muslim countries. The people doing this can't all be closeted. He was obviously staking out the place, and deciding on how and where to make a statement, and this attack was also racially driven, since he apparently chose not to shoot blacks. I feel like this closeted gay narrative is being used in an attempt to mitigate some of the potential backlash, and make him look like less of a hero to those who want to see this kind of violence. With the current trend, it looks like more attacks are coming too unfortunately, and for most of us, there's nothing we can do even if we have guns, because these are usually surprise attacks, and if shootings start to fail, there will simply be more bombings, or worse.

[Locomotion]

Political Correctness

What really annoys me is the political correct element of modern society. The media and Trudeau's government avoid calling it "Islamic Terrorism' for fear of being called "racist".

Islam isn't a race. It's a political ideology disguised as a religion hell bent on world conquest, similar to nazism. In fact, the islamic terrorist who murdered a soldier in Ottawa a few years ago and stormed parliament ... was a white guy. So the racist card doesn't really fly with me.

Someone mentioned earlier how brutal the catholics were in history. Very true, the Spanish Inquisition (torturing Jews to become Christian) was an absolute disgrace. The crusades were a battle to keep muslims from invading Europe. The muslims lost. It was war, war is hell no matter what the cause. There are often atrocities on all sides, most go unreported or recorded in the history books. The point is, catholics (and most other major world religions) have moved on. You can't change history, but you can at least try to make sure history doesn't repeat itself. Move on. Try to move forward.

Now here we are in modern times. The politically correct governments of the west, like Germany & Sweden have opened their gates letting millions upon millions of muslim migrants (most young men of fighting age, not families) into their countries. These migrants are not integrating into the society of their host countries, they are actually taking over large sections of each country and calling it "Islamic Territory."

Another poster on this thread mentioned the murderer's "right wing religious background". The funny thing about it, is these so called "extreme right wing muslims" usually vote for politically correct "extremest left wing" governments, like the one we currently have in Ottawa. Why? Because they know they will be tolerated, given a free pass as they build their numbers, until sharia law can be brought in.

It's all a game, and a dangerous one we will all be paying for in the future.

[Mouthwideopen]

I agree that freedom is worth fighting for.. but I totally disagree with your view of how the western society became free..

Sorry; where did I express my view upon exactly how the western society became free? All I'm really saying is that the ideals we hold dear today are worth defending and even offending people over. We can look at problem A "Orlando massacre shooter" or we can distract and obfuscate the issue by looking on a macro scale at problems A through Z. If we converse long enough and view issues through a lens big enough we may come to a realization that basically life is unfair and that some of us have won the DNA/birthplace lottery while others have not. What does that solve or prove?

We can't hop into a time machine and undo things our ancestors did. Guilt from the actions or inactions of past generations has little effect on me. There is no perfect system and all beings are self interested without exception. So Western society was not created from purely innocent beginnings, it's not perfect..... is that a significant point?

Can anyone point to a society that hasn't been built off the backs of genocide, war or slavery? It's not perfect but if you look around it's the best one to live in. We have the power to nullify the system and set everything on fire and start over but we don't.... why not? Well, the many failed purely communist and socialist countries of the past and present have proven that the best systems are a mix of capitalism and communism. I don't think you would find too many North Americans willing to trade places with a Venezuelan anytime soon; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-starving.html Myself I'm happier being "enslaved" by the rich under the system we have here in N.A. than the working classes are under the systtems elsewhere.

I'd like to think that we can all just get along. I'd also like to think that Santa and flying reindeers will land on my roof the night of Dec. 24th. Human evolution didn't stop at the neck. We all have selfishness, greed and aggression but also compassion and sympathy built into our very psyches. These traits aren't going anywhere anytime soon. There will always be war. There will always be "the rich" to blame. The rich share the same human nature as any of us. I'm not going to foolishly delude myself into thinking that if I were born rich I would act differently.

I guess we're all sort of stuck in the middle just trying to enjoy life as it comes. I suppose that until a tragedy like the one that occurred in Orlando lands on our doorsteps at a club that we ourselves frequent we won't need to take dangerous ideologies seriously.
And if there is a collective of TS escorts that are offering free services to promote communist / socialist principles .... pls pm me the details. And if free services are extended to asylum seekers from Muslim nations... you may want to review your security measures and perhaps install metal detectors at your door.

I know I'm being a cheeky ass. I do apologize for that.

[CBrake78]

How about some better questions?

How does someone buy a weapon like this so easily? At what point does a weapon called an Assault Rifle considered self defense or used to defend yourself? How would you even be able to defend yourself with a weapon you cannot openly carry?

I 100% agree with you Shyla. In Canada you cannot own an automatic weapon. You would have no problem defending yourself or family with a pump action 12 ga or a semi automatic rifle. There's no need to have automatic weapons. The same thing could easily happen here but I think there would be less of a chance or it being such a high number of casualties here.