Shemales verses Transsexuals

[Wiseone26]

i am going to try to find some info i have on what is 'now' considered to be transgender. it seems to also be inclusive of cd/ts/tv/tg etc.

being very new to this community perhaps in my newness i see things differently.

the two spirit in me wants her breast to grow to balance body and spirit.

Paula you want the complete change and wish to live your life fully female, i also understand this.

Lisa, i am not sure where and how far you want to go with you transition.

We all change in our own time to become the person inside. i do know of someone that found out they were really female and once they new that and accepted it they were content. no physical changes being done what so ever.

some of us know instantly what is wrong re:body and inside,, for those of us in the grey area things get more confusing and difficult. how does one who is two spirited dress? androgenous? for those of us, pardon the expression, with the balls to say this is who i am deal with it we can move forward. many are not so lucky.

the definition of 'transgender' seems to have more to do 'rights' rather than any labelling. a cd as defined in the Ontario Human Rights Commision also has the right to go to work fully dresses and should not be faces with harrassement and so.

i will try to find that article and post it.
some food for thought.

Well I think we are getting at how the CD/TV community thinks they can be in the same label as pre/post op girls. Transgender, Transsexual are classified as umbrella terms now and more vague per definition. The unfortunate thing is that cause of this society deems that the pre/post ops are in the same label umbrella as CD/TV. It's a totally different ballgame. Most CD/TV don't want breasts, don't want a vagina etc..they just do it for pleasure/fetish. For the pre/post ones it is a life threatening issue both mentally and physically. We don't do this for pleasure or to get off. So to put us under the same umbrella I think is truly wrong. HRC is right about equality, however to have a CD/TV come to work and expect to use the womens washroom is another can of worms that most genetic women would speak out about. This debate / arguement has been ongoing for years and years. And honestly society is yet mature enough to handle it properly.

just my opinion on the subject. And I can see this discussion getting heated at some point...

[tslisaparadise]

i am going to try to find some info i have on what is 'now' considered to be transgender. it seems to also be inclusive of cd/ts/tv/tg etc.

being very new to this community perhaps in my newness i see things differently.

the two spirit in me wants her breast to grow to balance body and spirit.

Paula you want the complete change and wish to live your life fully female, i also understand this.

Lisa, i am not sure where and how far you want to go with you transition.

We all change in our own time to become the person inside. i do know of someone that found out they were really female and once they new that and accepted it they were content. no physical changes being done what so ever.

some of us know instantly what is wrong re:body and inside,, for those of us in the grey area things get more confusing and difficult. how does one who is two spirited dress? androgenous? for those of us, pardon the expression, with the balls to say this is who i am deal with it we can move forward. many are not so lucky.

the definition of 'transgender' seems to have more to do 'rights' rather than any labelling. a cd as defined in the Ontario Human Rights Commision also has the right to go to work fully dresses and should not be faces with harrassement and so.

i will try to find that article and post it.
some food for thought.

a true transgender doesnt have 2 spirites in them its that simple that is why we go stealth and live our lives as one person the one who our brains tell us who we are period.anybody who puts on a dress seems to think there a trans lol not so, theres a huge price we pay to be trans and we dont take it lightly thats why we look down on the cds who seem to think they have the rights we have yet wont and dont wanna pay the price and seek the rewards of becoming a full time girl 24/7.most cds usually keep it away from there wives and loved ones for odvious reasons and are very happy dressing up when there wives are at work and some make money at it .to each there own i quess .

[Wiseone26]

kristopin, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender is pretty much bang on.

[kristopin]

well waht ever

we all can believe what we like about waht terms to use to described what kinda folks we. perhaps i was just insulted by having two spirited people not be transgendered, it kinda feels that way, althought the sherbourne Health Centre, 519, Fred Victor Centre, Trans Health Lobby Group would disagreed with your definitions.. so if am not transgendered then there is NO point in me being involved in this forum.

By your definition im just a fuck up, i guess.

i will find that article and let you read it and then you can decide for yourselves.

[milkandhoney]

lets be honest:

all TS started as crossdressers.

all TS have masturbated a million times wearing women's clothes when they were guys.

why is this so controversial?

its just so stupid--everybody knows that TS start life as young guys who get off on dressing like woman. why act as if you never did it? why pretend it wasn't, at least in part, about sex.

but mainly, why this need to put down other people who haven't spent a fortune on surgery?

[kristopin]

outta here

lets be honest:

all TS started as crossdressers.

all TS have masturbated a million times wearing women's clothes when they were guys.

why is this so controversial?

its just so stupid--everybody knows that TS start life as young guys who get off on dressing like woman. why act as if you never did it? why pretend it wasn't, at least in part, about sex.

but mainly, why this need to put down other people who haven't spent a fortune on surgery?

nicely put milkandhoney. but once words are spoken they are so hard to take back. the cat is out of the bag as they say.

as a "non-tranny" my opinions have no import here.

[milkandhoney]

Lisa's dismissal of the two-spirit concept is ignorant, and more importantly, wrong. all it really says it that she has absolutely no clue about the history of the 'third sex'

http://www.goddesstempleoforangecoun...ansgender.html
http://www.pacificpridefoundation.or.../twospirit.htm
http://www.cahootsmagazine.com/index...sk=view&id=461
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit
http://cfsh.ca/your_sexual_health/ge...ospirited.aspx
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywo.../berdache.html
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Two-Spirit
http://www.2spirits.com/Transgender%20Page%2018-19.pdf

just to be clear, the very conservative concept of the transsexual that is being promoted here is as old as the rise of 'sex change' operations that began (unsuccessfully) with Lili Elbe in 1930.

it is the result of highly technologized western medicine, mainly the result of the invention of anesthesia. hands up all the TS who are willing to get breast implants without anesthetic.

the idea of two-spirit sexuality, and the existence of 'third sex' communities like berdache, kathoeys, hijras, sworn virgins etc are far far far older than the surgically derived version that dominates today.

[Wiseone26]

I knew this would get heated. Two spirit is mentioned on that link I posted. But like I said medical officials that came up with the guidelines need to update the guidelines. Now regards to milk'n'honeys remark how all ts start off as CDs I disagree and I will not argue my 'opinion'. I was never a guy, in my mind I was always a girl as most true TS are. What I'm stating is the here and now from what I've seen and heard the last few years. I stand by my remarks and will not get into a heated debate about this that and everything else. Everyone is entitled to opinions let's leave it at the. I know this is going to get more pissy and some people are going to take it the wrong way. Nuff said. Plus typing this on my iPod is a pain.

[kristopin]

another time

i will respond to all this in a new thread, when i have the time to gather all the info i need and when i have my emotions in check. i shall do so in an informative factual method.

we all have our opinions and understand who we are inside. tis again goes back to an understanding of 'language'. i do not need other peoples opinions to validate who i am. i know who i am and what i am.

as dylan once said 'the times they are a changing'

[tslisaparadise]

Lisa's dismissal of the two-spirit concept is ignorant, and more importantly, wrong. all it really says it that she has absolutely no clue about the history of the 'third sex'

http://www.goddesstempleoforangecoun...ansgender.html
http://www.pacificpridefoundation.or.../twospirit.htm
http://www.cahootsmagazine.com/index...sk=view&id=461
http://www.videojug.com/expertanswer...wo-spirit-mean
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit
http://cfsh.ca/your_sexual_health/ge...ospirited.aspx
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywo.../berdache.html
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Two-Spirit
http://www.2spirits.com/Transgender%20Page%2018-19.pdf

just to be clear, the very conservative concept of the transsexual that is being promoted here is as old as the rise of 'sex change' operations that began (unsuccessfully) with Lili Elbe in 1930.

it is the result of highly technologized western medicine, mainly the result of the invention of anesthesia. hands up all the TS who are willing to get breast implants without anesthetic.

the idea of two-spirit sexuality, and the existence of 'third sex' communities like berdache, kathoeys, hijras, sworn virgins etc are far far far older than the surgically derived version that dominates today.

just to be clear your a fucking idiot who doesnt know there ass from a hole in the ground now fuck off and die bitch

[tslisaparadise]

we all can believe what we like about waht terms to use to described what kinda folks we. perhaps i was just insulted by having two spirited people not be transgendered, it kinda feels that way, althought the sherbourne Health Centre, 519, Fred Victor Centre, Trans Health Lobby Group would disagreed with your definitions.. so if am not transgendered then there is NO point in me being involved in this forum.

By your definition im just a fuck up, i guess.

i will find that article and let you read it and then you can decide for yourselves.

nobody here is doubting what you are but if you think a so called expert on trans has an opinion of who we are that you believe to be gospel then so be it but untill you or anyone else walks in our shoes then they know nothing period.

[milkandhoney]

just to be clear your a fucking idiot who doesnt know there ass from a hole in the ground now fuck off and die bitch

wow--uh ok Popeye
"i yam what i yam" etc.
its hard to know what to say to someone who hasn't opened a book in 20 years but whatever.

[tslisaparadise]

wow--uh ok Popeye
"i yam what i yam" etc.
its hard to know what to say to someone who hasn't opened a book in 20 years but whatever.

your the expert right dipshit

[Rockheart]

lets be honest:

all TS started as crossdressers.

all TS have masturbated a million times wearing women's clothes when they were guys.

why is this so controversial?

its just so stupid--everybody knows that TS start life as young guys who get off on dressing like woman. why act as if you never did it? why pretend it wasn't, at least in part, about sex.

but mainly, why this need to put down other people who haven't spent a fortune on surgery?

You are confusing masturbation, being a crossdresser, and transseuxality.
Most don't change sexes on a full time basis cause they like to get off.

Maybe they are getting off, not because they are a tranny but because they are horny and need release.
Everyone gets horny.
Trannies aren't in a constant state of arousal because they are transsexuals.

[kristopin]

whats the point

what si the point of all this.

swearing, denegrating other people. this has no value.

this will be my last comment here.

i was not speaking about any medical authority. i was not denegrating other people for being who they are.

i have some very close friends who are cd,s and they are very nice people. they do not dress to have sex. they feel a need to be femminine. perhaps this is the beginning of their transition.

i have been very badly scarred by women and men and transwomen. i have very little faith left in humanity. hurting other people in anyway to me is a sin.

we have all seen how when people are divided they are conquered. the trans community. everyone inclusive, has to be able to get along and become a real issue for politicians.

perhaps i have just outgrown this forum.

language and definitions seem to be our greatist problem. we have seen people leave because of it.

i will seldom be here now. i have things to do.

as far as the new thread. well lets say that seems to be a waste of time.


Admin, good luck you are going to need it i think.