What happened to the Barbie Thread

[wellhungone]

Okay, i was in the middle of responding to Barbie's trashing of the Lounge and my internet went down. As I logged back in, the thread is gone

I was on a "RANT" and was voice my disapprove on Barbie's trash talking of the Lounge.

Todd and Amanda responded with class to the low life trash that Barbie has proven to be. .........

I'm very disappointment with what Barbie has said. There have been much better girls working at the Lounge & gooodhandys(lucy, Paige, Madison, Lisa) that have never bad-mouthed the place.

Todd & Amanda have worked hard to promote the clubs and provide a fun place to visit. I'm sure that if they didn't do this, no else would have.

Barbie, take a look in the mirror before you start trashing other

[tslisaparadise]

Okay, i was in the middle of responding to Barbie's trashing of the Lounge and my internet went down. As I logged back in, the thread is gone

I was on a "RANT" and was voice my disapprove on Barbie's trash talking of the Lounge.

Todd and Amanda responded with class to the low life trash that Barbie has proven to be. .........

I'm very disappointment with what Barbie has said. There have been much better girls working at the Lounge & gooodhandys(lucy, Paige, Madison, Lisa) that have never bad-mouthed the place.

Todd & Amanda have worked hard to promote the clubs and provide a fun place to visit. I'm sure that if they didn't do this, no else would have.

Barbie, take a look in the mirror before you start trashing other

ya it died a slow death lol but im glad its gone as there are alot of girls that need to work there to make money and the guys well you know guys lol

[Paris-Montreal]

its not that bad i have a friend sarah who go couple time she always make good money ... and i did go dance one night to and i made the same money i made in a day of escorting ... but by dancing there .... plus you can give your number to client and see them in the week ... will be nice to have a place like that in montreal ... its maybe juste need little renvation and the place will be super !!!

[WillEee]

About time.

Okay, i was in the middle of responding to Barbie's trashing of the Lounge and my internet went down. As I logged back in, the thread is gone . . . . .

I had posted also on another thread today pointing out that with all the trash talk about Canadian Citizenship and racist comments that were being made in that thread there were grounds open for charges to be laid leading to very lengthy and costly legal action to be taken.

I was reading my own post and had just clicked on Edit to make a change at which time the post then vanished right before my eyes. Does that mean that Admin or Crag has decided to clean this place up? Two threads gone in one afternoon. Great news and badly needed action!

[Rantsalot]

....

I had posted also on another thread today pointing out that with all the trash talk about Canadian Citizenship and racist comments that were being made in that thread there were grounds open for charges to be laid leading to very lengthy and costly legal action to be taken.

I was reading my own post and had just clicked on Edit to make a change at which time the post then vanished right before my eyes. Does that mean that Admin or Crag has decided to clean this place up? Two threads gone in one afternoon. Great news and badly needed action!

WillEee. You are referring to the now defunct "Whites in the Minority" thread. As outlined by Admin and as monitored by all moderators it was a thread which started out controversially but then led to mud slinging and the majority agreed that it should be removed.

Also, with that, there was some consideration and conversation as to how to prevent such threads from reoccuring

[lucy]

read my responses carefully....

I didn't write any bad thing about the Lounge or Goodhandy's ,how could I ?,first off all I love Todd,he is a very genuine person,I worked couple of times in the Lounge,each times I made more than 1500 $,and I go to goodhandy's very often,I like being there and I am one of the biggest supporter ...
the only thing I mentioned is I saw one of my favourite regular was going out with that X person, It kind of bothered me,that's it ...and it's nothing to do with GOODHANDY'S
I didn't even mention her name.
how can it be a bigotted response?





Addtionally I did not appreciated the bigotted responses from
Lisa and Lucy.

[lucy]

no comments....
I LOVE YOU TOO...........

I am saying no more.

First I completely was mistaken in allowing that thread, and I could have avoided it and your mean response.
Since i should have know it was far too juicy for u to resist.

Just wasn't paying attention.

I'll be sure to have a hot finger on the delete button in future.

Love you

[Barbie_Swallows]

Well apparently i'm so controversial, that Todd decided to fire me, and take that bitches side then mine. He thinks i was bashing the club, but i wasn't. I was simply just expressing my fucking views, of how poorly i was being treated by her. Why am i being punished cause i spoke the truth? If i would have repressed my feelings about how i felt, and kept it hidden, like most people would,, i'd still be working there.

I emailed Todd, telling him that bitch was giving me a hard time and i had no reply in return, so i felt like i was being ignored, so i felt i had to make it public. He thinks im bashing & mocking the club, which clearly i'm not. But i guess everybody has different views of how i was protraying the lounge strip with my story. Anyways, here's the email I got from Todd, and the original story that was posted on my thread, which is not deleted, cause i guess i'm too wild and fucked up, that they had to clean up my mess, lol.

B@rbie Swallows

--------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Barbie: I replied publicly on the thread you started on the forum, but then it got removed after a bit.


So just in case you did not see it, I am going to email it directly to you here.


I don't dislike you as a person, but obviously things are not meant to be. This message is from both myself and Mandy, and was meant to be public response. But I'm glad they took down the thread also, as it would not have gone anywhere pretty.


Take care of yourself,
Todd.


Dear Barbie and those who read the forum:

I am writing this message on behalf of Mandy and myself regarding some
of the views and thoughts that Barbie has expressed below. While we
both sincerely admire her approach to living life openly and honestly,
and express her right to free speech, we are both strongly opposed and
offended to her continuing to belittle and disrespect T-Girls who are
in different phases of transition. Or who choose to express themselves
as cross-dressers.

This goes against everything we stand for, politically, at Goodhandy's
and at the Lounge. We chose to start using the word "T-Girl" with much
more frequency in the past few years, because it is an
all-encompassing word that covers the entire spectrum of gender
expression. (We also acknowledge that there is still use of the term
"shemale" in some places on some of our websites, because Mandy also
supports the use of that word. But in general, we have been moving
more towards using the word T-Girl as much as possible) We realized
that our clientele at both the Lounge and Goodhandy's are just like
the girls: they are unique and individual and are attracted to
different types of T-Girls. Girls who live full time as transsexuals
with breast implants or hormones, girls who choose to not have
surgery, girls who might have a day job and be in a position where
they are working towards the point when they can live full-time as a
lady, and only live as a lady part-time, and even girls who have no
interest in transitioning, but who like to dress up and express
themselves.

So for Barbie to come onto a public forum and publicly bash the
different types of T-Girls, and even make threats to the safety of
another of the entertainers from the Lounge and slander her, is
something that both myself and Mandy are concerned with. We will not
tolerate this type of bigotry - and that is what it is.

And we would like to also address the statement that we are presenting
false advertisement at the Lounge by "hiring" "men in wigs". Number 1,
the term "T-Girl" covers all forms of gender expression. Nowhere do we
suggest that the Lounge is a place where you will only find girls who
fit into a certain pigeon hole. So in case anyone is confused: the
Lounge presents "T-Girl Strippers" which means you will find girls
like Barbie who have implants and live full-time as girls, and you
will also meet ladies who are anywhere else on the spectrum. Including
those who live as boys, but dress up to perform as T-Girl strippers.

Number 2: we do not "hire" strippers at the Lounge. The Lounge is not
our club, we are promoters who operate an event in the basement of
Diamonds Cabaret. Diamonds Cabaret is a licensed adult entertainment
facility. The girls who work at the Lounge are considered freelance
burlesque entertainers. They sign a 2 page form which is a Mississauga
by-law form which proves their identity, some basic information, and
where they agree to operate within the laws that are established by
Mississauga regarding adult entertainment. The law states that there
is no sexual touching allowed in the booths, and that is standard at
all strip clubs. And just like at all strip clubs, customers are going
to always push and ask for more than the law allows. We strongly
suggest that those who wish to see the Lounge remain open not engage
in the sort of behavior Barbie describes, as it will result in closing
down. Goodhandy's is a sex club, if you wish to have sex with T-Girls,
come to Goodhandy's and get a membership and go into a private booth
and as Mandy likes to say on the microphone "Fuck your brains out if
you want to".

Tipping a DJ is also absolutely standard at strip clubs. In many cases
it is even higher than $20 per shift. Our DJs are reasonable, and if a
girl comes in and makes no money at all, they are always welcome to
ask the DJ if they can skip tipping them out that week. Tipping is one
of those "what goes around comes around" things and all our staff know
to be reasonable. I just wanted to make that public.

And since Barbie has been very public about her bigotry, Mandy and I
both feel very strongly that we cannot tolerate that sort of person in
our venues. Effective immediately we are asking that Barbie please not
come to our club, as our club caters to the entire spectrum of T-Girls
and she has made it clear that she has hostile feelings and even
intentions towards certain types of T-Girls. Mandy does not have a
membership to T-Girl forums, I am writing on both of our behalf,
because although I'm male, I feel very connected to the T-Girl
community and passionate about it. I know that Mandy is personally,
politically, and emotionally offended by this bigotry. Barbie's views
remind me of the days when they had country clubs that didn't allow
black people, and make me kind of sick to my stomach. The safety of
our clientele has to always take precedent, so please Barbie, let's
just agree to disagree, and move on with life. You clearly do not want
to hang out in a place that caters to a diverse range of people, so
stay away, I'm sure it will be less stressful and depressing for you.

I also am surprised about your bigotry just showing up now. You were very happy with the Lounge and the money you were making for the first couple months. And also I thought you liked cross dressers, I have seen you hang out with them before, you even brought a very nice cross-dresser friend with you on one of your first visits to Goodhandy's.

Thanks for reading, Todd and Mandy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[cobbler]

you two get a room lol it was my post and should not have been deleted as there was nothing i said that would have brought a law suit as for the others well lets see sunshine threatened me and pulled the race card like she does everytime shocking i know lucy never said nothing and some dude doesnt like pakkies so whats the problem?the problem is that there were 3 people posting as if they were somehow protesting there equality and thats fine i agree there my equel as long as they were born here then there just as canadian as me no matter where there parents came from period but you idiots seem to think just because my government gave people a canadian passport doesnt make you a canadian in my eyes sorry about yer luck canada is the greatest country on earth not because we let every race in here its because most of us are so peacefull we dont say how we really feel about it.

You just don't get it do you Lisa? I fear you never will, so I'll go back to ignoring you.
Thank you to the rest of you admins for being stand-up about keeping the forum civil. I like a good rant as much as the next person, but hate mongering has no place here or indeed anywhere. Thank you.

[WillEee]

For a more congenial forum.

I appreciate Admin. that you and Rantsalot, as Forum officials accountable for the content of the forum, have made the effort you mention here today to contain the aberrant behaviour of the originator of the threads under discussion. A few members may have a chuckle about the off-colour and/or insulting comments made regularly by the two most flagrant offenders, and some may even foolishly encourage them to continue doing so.

I myself believe though that the majority of members really do find these kinds of writings completely unacceptable and I know that, given the chance, many other members will or would also agree in that belief.

I can accept that trying to keep tabs on everything that is posted here all day, every day may be overwhelming some days. Yes, yours is surely a difficult task and I believe too Admin. that you are doing what you can to make the forum accessible to everybody, to give everybody a chance. That is very commendable, however, when your willingness to accomodate everyone is taken advantage of by a few, and especially those who will not accede to your advice, should not be allowed the priviledge of further posting.

Sure, there are some things posted about that may sound niggly to some, but for anyone who does take the time to post about what seems to be a niggly matter to someone else, it surely must have been of some significance to them. They do not deserve to be insulted, told to fuck off or made fun of for their honest comments. That is what has been occuring here and it is those kinds of responses that then become inflamed and go into a run away mode, as happened to the two threads being discussed here today.

Again something starting out on the fence that i left fester.

On one hand Lisa rarely makes threads so I saw that as a good thing.
It actually had it's merit's at first.

The biggest problem is many are far too sensitive and many are too insensitve to discuss touchy subjects around here.

The moral to be taken here is I am trying to give everyone a chance.

Sometimes it is coming back to bite me but,
Barbie and others like her really want to be here and she does have some great stuff sometimes.
It is hard to turn my back on anyone that really wants to be here.
So i am trying to find ways to include them best i can.
I hate being left out of something I like even if I am a big jerk sometimes.

In future her threads will be far more closely scrutinized before they see the light of day.

However I can also seem to read between the lines of her ramblings and maybe hear a different message than u guys sometimes.

Many of you have to stop taking such offense to some things tho.
Really, it's those little nit pick things that don't really matter.

thanks

WillEee. You are referring to the now defunct "Whites in the Minority" thread. As outlined by Admin and as monitored by all moderators it was a thread which started out controversially but then led to mud slinging and the majority agreed that it should be removed.

Also, with that, there was some consideration and conversation as to how to prevent such threads from reoccuring

[sunshine]

I started nothing

I did not start this crap. I tried to diffuse the situation at first and defended Lisa. But she did not have the good sense to stop and think about what she was saying.

As far as being a "real Canadian" by being born her, that is pure idiocy and quite contrary to Canadian Law. I was not born here but I became a Canadian citizen. I AM a Canadian in EVERY sense of the word.

This isn't the USA. There aren't the same problems with immigration that they have down there. Nor do we have the same attitude toward immigrants.

As far as me being racist or racist in reverse or whatever she is trying to say, this is complete nonsense. I am completely inclusive in my thoughts and actions. I simply insist that public forums such as this not be used to propagate hate messages and racist crap. It is highly offensive.

If we are to live together in peace, we MUST accept cultural and ethnic differences and we must insist that our own culture and ethnicity be respected and accepted. We must stand up for the victims of prejudice and be their voice when they need help.

Lisa's position is untenable from a historical perspective as well. The "Whites" did not found this country. They stole it from the Aboriginals.

From a genetic perspective, Lisa's position is nonsense as well. Where is this "pure" Anglo-Saxon blood line that she is so proud of? It is a fiction. A white person might have genetic heritage from Africa and a Black person might have heritage from Europe. An Oriental might trace their history from the Middle-East, etc. This mixing of the gene pool has been going on for thousands or years.

My biggest objection is that Lisa speaks from a position of ignorance. She spouts opinions that have no basis in fact. Why is she so "proud" to be a "white canadian"? This is not something she accomplished. She was born with that skin colour. So this "pride" must be a statement of "superiority" over some other groups she perceives incorrectly as interlopers or unwelcome guests in "her" country. Hey, this isn't "her" country.

How can Lisa learn to correct her incorrect views if she won't even listen?
I do not think this forum should accept this kind of race-hate or any other discriminitory point of view. Transsexuals have a hard enough time getting accepted, as Faure pointed out. Here is a forum that treates them with equality and fairness. How long will that last if it is also a forum for race hate. Is this to become the "white transsexual forum"?

I will be the first to admit that Lisa has a sense of humour and that she has brought laughter to many threads. But this is not funny from any perspective. It is not small niggly stuff. It is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE. Many people who frequent the forum were not born here, are not of Anglo-Saxon descent. They have worked hard to participate in this forum and to be accepted here. No matter how long Lisa has been here, she does not have the right to spout the vile poison she calls an opinion.

That is all I have to say on the subject. If this sort of nonsense continues much longer, I will make some hard decisions. Enough is enough! I do not wish to live angry. I do not wish to have to defend myself or my friends from within the very group where we are supposed to be at home.

Sunshine

[prettyboy]

I did not start this crap. I tried to diffuse the situation at first and defended Lisa. But she did not have the good sense to stop and think about what she was saying.

As far as being a "real Canadian" by being born her, that is pure idiocy and quite contrary to Canadian Law. I was not born here but I became a Canadian citizen. I AM a Canadian in EVERY sense of the word.

This isn't the USA. There aren't the same problems with immigration that they have down there. Nor do we have the same attitude toward immigrants.

As far as me being racist or racist in reverse or whatever she is trying to say, this is complete nonsense. I am completely inclusive in my thoughts and actions. I simply insist that public forums such as this not be used to propagate hate messages and racist crap. It is highly offensive.

If we are to live together in peace, we MUST accept cultural and ethnic differences and we must insist that our own culture and ethnicity be respected and accepted. We must stand up for the victims of prejudice and be their voice when they need help.

Lisa's position is untenable from a historical perspective as well. The "Whites" did not found this country. They stole it from the Aboriginals.

From a genetic perspective, Lisa's position is nonsense as well. Where is this "pure" Anglo-Saxon blood line that she is so proud of? It is a fiction. A white person might have genetic heritage from Africa and a Black person might have heritage from Europe. An Oriental might trace their history from the Middle-East, etc. This mixing of the gene pool has been going on for thousands or years.

My biggest objection is that Lisa speaks from a position of ignorance. She spouts opinions that have no basis in fact. Why is she so "proud" to be a "white canadian"? This is not something she accomplished. She was born with that skin colour. So this "pride" must be a statement of "superiority" over some other groups she perceives incorrectly as interlopers or unwelcome guests in "her" country. Hey, this isn't "her" country.

How can Lisa learn to correct her incorrect views if she won't even listen?
I do not think this forum should accept this kind of race-hate or any other discriminitory point of view. Transsexuals have a hard enough time getting accepted, as Faure pointed out. Here is a forum that treates them with equality and fairness. How long will that last if it is also a forum for race hate. Is this to become the "white transsexual forum"?

I will be the first to admit that Lisa has a sense of humour and that she has brought laughter to many threads. But this is not funny from any perspective. It is not small niggly stuff. It is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE. Many people who frequent the forum were not born here, are not of Anglo-Saxon descent. They have worked hard to participate in this forum and to be accepted here. No matter how long Lisa has been here, she does not have the right to spout the vile poison she calls an opinion.

That is all I have to say on the subject. If this sort of nonsense continues much longer, I will make some hard decisions. Enough is enough! I do not wish to live angry. I do not wish to have to defend myself or my friends from within the very group where we are supposed to be at home.

Sunshine

Very well said Sunshine!

[tsKITANA]

SORRY TO BREAK OFF THE SERIOUSNESS.
but. I WOKE UP TODAY TO A BEAUTIFUL WARM SUNNY TORONTO. hehehe.
just thought id share the warm.

okok u may u go on with the serious stuffs, i go walk around the neighbourhood.

[sunshine]

lets clarify and agree and settle down now

While Lisa needs some lessons on being a little more politically correct.

You people need to quit making such a big fucking deal about this stuff.
If you don't like it report it, don't reply to it.
It just makes you look ridiculous.

Yes Lisa thinks people are becoming Canadian citizens too easily now days and many do not respect us for it.
It is true people of European descent who founded this country (mostly white) are now the minority.
Plain and simple, why can't she say that?
Because you are too touchy?

She never pointed to a specific race or said you were one of the culprits.
In fact I believe she feels the same about white people from Russia and Bulgaria
In fact Canada has restricted immigration from certain countries recently including Bulgaria and Mexico because their citizens WERE taking unfair advantage or our immigration policiies.
Sunshine you came to our country and joined in with the rest of us.
In fact the people coming to our country and trying to change us to their way, would never allow us to do the same thing in their country.

Why would you think Lisa represents the views of the forum.
She is merely a personality here and has her own views.
I don't think her views are racist rather they are imperialist.

If you constantly have to threaten to leave the forum over every stupid little thing, then go already.
Otherwise please start having a thicker skin.
You are just reading things into it you do not have to.

Lisa try to be a little more politically correct.
White people aren't allowed to have opinions.

Why can't we have a discussion of caucasians becoming a minority in Canada.
They are, it's a fact.
Why do many of you feel it is racist to talk about hardships of whites?
Every other minority can say they are so hard done by, why can't a white person.

Can't we ever discuss anything without someone getting upset.
We should be able to discuss things like this.

Maybe give someone an iota of a break one time here.

You guys analyze the text as to find any mis-spelling or phrase that could remotely offend anyone on earth.
Get over it, people are never going to make a picture perfect post and u have to stop jumping all over each other because of it.

Alright Admin. I do not agree that you are representing things as they truly are. But that is alright. I just want to say a few things:

I have NEVER threatened to leave the forum. I appreciate the forum and I enjoy participating in some of the discussions that take place here. Also, this summer, I have some really great news that I would like to share with the readers of the forum. I have no intention of leaving the forum unless you throw me out.

Lisa has been a fixture on the forum. However, I would like to point out that, although I am often too busy to participate as much as she does, I have been a member since the very beginning. I belong here as much as anyone. My opinions belong here as much as anyone's.

If you assert that Lisa has a right to voice her opinions, then so do I. If you want discussions to proceed without attacks, then you must censor. If you do not want to censor, then you have to accept EVERY opinion when it is voiced. That's fine too.

I have made huge efforts to post intelligently and not to offend on the forum. I state my opinions when I can do so without offending.

Admin, you say these are small niggly things and we need thicker skin. I NEVER sweat the small stuff. But racism is highly offensive to me. When I see it, I will speak up in defense of the victims and in defense of good sense. If you are prepared to accept the posting of racist views, then you should also accept opposing views or views that attempt to defend against. So apply what you preach to others and accept my responses as valid posts. That's all. Call it my personality if you want. Call it whatever...

Obviously Lisa's views are not the forum's views. However, the posts on the forum are representative of the forum to readers. That was my point. I accept your tack in this struggle and I will do my best to be more open and accepting in the future.

Sunshine

[shemale_patriciaM]

You are one classy lady Sunshine...very eloquent and logical. Kudos to you sister.