What have you done to Ontario?

[Meagan Nutwood]

Further to Greep's point, we as the paying customer could use the same line of reasoning and say: because I have to afford my Lexus to get to your incall location I should be able to pay less.

It works both ways.

Well that's just dumb. You don't go to any kind of establishment asking to pay less just because you had to afford your vehicle to arrive at the location. What does that have to do with the service you are receiving?

[greep]

Because girls who charge cheap rates don't do any of that hence why they are so fucking cheap in the first place.

So if you want to be cheap then go to a cheap girl. Don't bring that shit to girl who is on top of her game. We don't invest in our self as much as we do to be sold for 50 dollars.

they don't give a shit about how much is paid for the hair removal and the nails but they surely want them done though!

You seem to misunderstand the whole superficial importance of this business...

How do guys bring that shit to you?
By asking for a cheaper rate? Oh the nerve!

I bet when you go get your nails done you want cheaper rates, right

If guys wont pay your rate hang up on them. END OF DISCUSSION.

If you cant get by charging the rates you deserve, get another job. If you can get by charging your rates, great- STOP BITCH'IN. Who cares what other charge.

You girls are misdirecting your frustration at the guys who want cheaper rates.

This thread started out talking about girls who charge cheap rates but is just disintegrating into client bashing. Sad. You girls are young and already so bitter. Guess what: it only gets worse.

[sunshine]

unwarranted conclusion

I cant believe guys want to be bare backed. Unbelievable.

Ive already said what i want on this topic, so one last time....

Girls can charge what they want, the sex trade industry a free market industry, anybody can charge what they what, if u want welfare, disgusting guys ask for $80/hr, if want professional people who earn a good living charge $300/hr.

Honestly u girls are just bitching because your losing business.

That is really what it all boils down to.

I assume by their silence, none of these 'undercutters' are members on this forum.

I wish one these 'cheaper' girls would stand up and say something. Defend themselves and their decision to charge cheaper rates.

It would be a refreshing point of view on this stale topic. Today 02:32 PM
I assume by their silence, none of these 'undercutters' are members on this forum.

I wish one these 'cheaper' girls would stand up and say something. Defend themselves and their decision to charge cheaper rates.

It would be a refreshing point of view on this stale topic.
I assume by their silence, none of these 'undercutters' are members on this forum.

I wish one these 'cheaper' girls would stand up and say something. Defend themselves and their decision to charge cheaper rates.

It would be a refreshing point of view on this stale topic. Today 02:32 PM

I assume by their silence, none of these 'undercutters' are members on this forum.

I wish one these 'cheaper' girls would stand up and say something. Defend themselves and their decision to charge cheaper rates.

It would be a refreshing point of view on this stale topic. Today 02:32 PM

I am not just talking through my hat. What I have said in this thread has been confirmed by other shemales. We have broken convention and discussed the rate issue. It is good that this topic is out in the open.

You draw a wrong conclusion when you say that these undercutters are not members of this forum - they are all around you. They are just too embarrassed to say anything.

You are right about one thing: a girl can charge whatever she wants. There is no union and there is no regulating body. It is a free market. But that is not the point.

The point is WHY are they charging crack whore rates when the market can support a more reasonable rate? Here are the possible reasons as I see them:

1. They ARE crack whores and they only care about their next fix. I am not joking. The internet has made it difficult to differentiate between a crack whore and a nice girl who takes care of herself and/or,

2. They are dog-ugly and have such a low self-esteem that they undershoot the rate. Even an ugly drag queen should be able to ask for $120.

2. They are men who have not transitionned in any way and they undershoot the rate they could fetch. Even a drag queen should be able to ask for $150. Throwing on a wig and a dress does not count as a transition. Transitionning is a huge undertaking requiring large expenditures, years of work, and alot of courage and/or,

3. They are dirtbags. They purposefully go into a new area and charge dirt cheap rates in order to "clean out" the area. When their phone eventually stops ringing, they move on. This is their strategy. They don't give a shit that it destroys the business for everybody else. They have no self-respect, never mind respect for anybody else. Some of these girls actually don't look that bad, some have even transitionned to a point. They could fetch the local rate but opt for this dirtbag strategy and/or,

4. They are girls who used to charge a reasonable rate but, faced with ever-diminishing calls as the dirtbags clean out the area, have run into the situation of not being able to meet their financial obligations. They are therefore in the unpleasant situation of compromising themselves and dropping their rates. Their lower rates will be met by even lower rates by the dirtbags. This levels out around $50.

What does this have to do with clients? It may seem that clients are the big winners in this price war. But you should think hard about this because there are hidden repercussions.

Once the rates bottom out, there is only one way for girls to compete. They must accede to performing all manner of unsafe practices. And this leads to what? It leads to lots of disease for everybody who go down that road. This is inevitable. And this leads to what? An exodus out of the business by all the self-respecting girls and a complete collapse of the business except for all the dirtbags and crack whores who don't care if they are sick and keep going. Does that sound like fun for the clients?

This has all happened before - I am not projecting an unrealistic scenario built in my imagination. I am paraphrasing from history.

What can clients do? They can support girls who ask for a reasonable rate? What is a reasonable rate? I will take a stab and say that these should be the MINIMUM reasonable rates:

Ugly or older drag queen $120 or more
Drag queen $150 or more
Any level of transition $200 or more
Attractive and transitionned $250 or more

If a girl asks for less, is obviously a dirtbag, is obviously on drugs, is obviously sick, is known for engaging in unsafe sex practices, just walk away.

Sunshine

[Meagan Nutwood]

and the fat lady sings!

[Sauga_dude]

Well that's just dumb. You don't go to any kind of establishment asking to pay less just because you had to afford your vehicle to arrive at the location. What does that have to do with the service you are receiving?

But U are saying that we have to pay more because YOU CHOOSE to pay high prices for things.

[Meagan Nutwood]

But U are saying that we have to pay more because YOU CHOOSE to pay high prices for things.

CAN YOU IMAGINE?!


I choose to pay high prices for things? Or the things I pay for are expensive?

The things I pay for to achieve the look and feel you all love are expensive.

& If you don't like soft - hairless skin. Manicured nails - Pedicured feet - A beautiful face accentuated by quality make up - framed by luscious tresses of hair then don't call... lol plain and simple. But if it turns you on and gets you hot then you better start saving!

[Tasha Jones RIP]

Wow...what happened to this great topic and open conversation?

Again let me try to make my point simple & maybe more to the point.

I am not client bashing at all. I already said that if I was a client I would be asking for the lower price as well. Everyone does that, it is life. But when your dealing with human beings it might be better to have some tact & respect. Asking a girl who already said her rates where such and such. To insult her by trying to get her to go much lower. Let me be clear, were not talking $20-$30 dollars we are talking $50 to $100. As well to get those calls day in & day out. You guys must have room to understand it gets upsetting and builds up. Which is why I feel there should not be such an issue with us venting. Venting about this situation, not bashing anyone.

I also do not think I am asking for to much for my time. I am a well reviewed girl and I charge about $150 most of the time. When I saw that the rates had dropped because of the other girls charging less or to also be fair maybe the clients not having as much free cash on hand. I dropped my rates but not my service. I think that was very fair and understanding on my part. This whole thing for me is not just about money. But I am also not in this line of work for the good of my health. I saw it was coming to a point that it was not worth it. So I went back to school and now I only work a couple of times a week.

Although the other 2 girls make some good points. To see someone who just puts on a wig rather then going the extra mile. To know these girls are doing things unsafe. As well offering less service then us girls who go that extra mile and wish to be proud of what we do. It is a bit insulting and can be frustrating. But then again, we all started somewhere right. I do not think this issue is with how far in her transition a girl is. That really is not the point at all and to be honest should not have even been brought into this topic.

But Ladies. I hear the frustration in your post. But you will not win any points or prove your points with that tone. Client bashing will get you no where and is only proving there points about us just “bitching”. It is also NOT what this topic was about. So please maybe take your angry out on the real issue, the guys are just following our lead and can not be blamed 100% for the other girls actions. They also make good points, if we could get our nails done just as good for 1/2 the price, would we not jump on that?

Tasha

[greep]

I assume by their silence, none of these 'undercutters' are members on this forum.

I wish one these 'cheaper' girls would stand up and say something. Defend themselves and their decision to charge cheaper rates.

It would be a refreshing point of view on this stale topic. Today 02:32 PM

I am not just talking through my hat. What I have said in this thread has been confirmed by other shemales. We have broken convention and discussed the rate issue. It is good that this topic is out in the open.

You draw a wrong conclusion when you say that these undercutters are not members of this forum - they are all around you. They are just too embarrassed to say anything.

You are right about one thing: a girl can charge whatever she wants. There is no union and there is no regulating body. It is a free market. But that is not the point.

The point is WHY are they charging crack whore rates when the market can support a more reasonable rate? Here are the possible reasons as I see them:

1. They ARE crack whores and they only care about their next fix. I am not joking. The internet has made it difficult to differentiate between a crack whore and a nice girl who takes care of herself and/or,

2. They are dog-ugly and have such a low self-esteem that they undershoot the rate. Even an ugly drag queen should be able to ask for $120.

2. They are men who have not transitionned in any way and they undershoot the rate they could fetch. Even a drag queen should be able to ask for $150. Throwing on a wig and a dress does not count as a transition. Transitionning is a huge undertaking requiring large expenditures, years of work, and alot of courage and/or,

3. They are dirtbags. They purposefully go into a new area and charge dirt cheap rates in order to "clean out" the area. When their phone eventually stops ringing, they move on. This is their strategy. They don't give a shit that it destroys the business for everybody else. They have no self-respect, never mind respect for anybody else. Some of these girls actually don't look that bad, some have even transitionned to a point. They could fetch the local rate but opt for this dirtbag strategy and/or,

4. They are girls who used to charge a reasonable rate but, faced with ever-diminishing calls as the dirtbags clean out the area, have run into the situation of not being able to meet their financial obligations. They are therefore in the unpleasant situation of compromising themselves and dropping their rates. Their lower rates will be met by even lower rates by the dirtbags. This levels out around $50.

What does this have to do with clients? It may seem that clients are the big winners in this price war. But you should think hard about this because there are hidden repercussions.

Once the rates bottom out, there is only one way for girls to compete. They must accede to performing all manner of unsafe practices. And this leads to what? It leads to lots of disease for everybody who go down that road. This is inevitable. And this leads to what? An exodus out of the business by all the self-respecting girls and a complete collapse of the business except for all the dirtbags and crack whores who don't care if they are sick and keep going. Does that sound like fun for the clients?

This has all happened before - I am not projecting an unrealistic scenario built in my imagination. I am paraphrasing from history.

What can clients do? They can support girls who ask for a reasonable rate? What is a reasonable rate? I will take a stab and say that these should be the MINIMUM reasonable rates:

Ugly or older drag queen $120 or more
Drag queen $150 or more
Any level of transition $200 or more
Attractive and transitionned $250 or more

If a girl asks for less, is obviously a dirtbag, is obviously on drugs, is obviously sick, is known for engaging in unsafe sex practices, just walk away.

Sunshine

I agree with most of what you say here. I have sympathy for girls who are trying to make a descent living. And I appreciate your and other girls dedication (and vigilence) to practising safe sex (that benefits us all)

At least your focusing your frustration in the right area -on the girls and not just on the clients (Like a couple others in this thread have done).

[Meagan Nutwood]

Cheap ain't good and good ain't cheap.

[sunshine]

Lots of good input

This thread seems to have distanced itself from the original point. I had actually written a long rant but had decided to keep it to an apology for not being able to continue in Ontario. But somehow, something got me going anyway.

It is a good thing that we are talking honestly about rates. And I agree with Tasha - this shouldn't be an assault on clients. They are only taking advantage of better rates. At least now, they are more aware of the impact of their actions on the overall business.

And Paris is right - it isn't just Toronto and Ontario. I also get lots of calls asking for ridiculous rates. It happens everywhere. At least now, we have brought attention to what is happening to the business all over the country.

And Yokomi is right - cheap aint good and good aint cheap. At least now we know how it affects the girls to discount them by asking for lower rates.

Although it is a bit like the chicken and the egg debate, it is the girls who are dropping their rates and habituating the clients to asking for these prices. At least now, everyone will be better able to uunderstand who is doing what to support or destroy the business.

We aren't going to solve it any more than we have by saying any more. I am glad that we were able to discuss it without too many arguments. And I want to thank the few girls who had the courage to speak frankly about the situation. The tendency is to always make it appear that we are doing great. I am sure that these girls are doing well. Guess who will be on top when things turn back around.

Thank you everybody

Sunshine

[tslisaparadise]

This thread seems to have distanced itself from the original point. I had actually written a long rant but had decided to keep it to an apology for not being able to continue in Ontario. But somehow, something got me going anyway.

It is a good thing that we are talking honestly about rates. And I agree with Tasha - this shouldn't be an assault on clients. They are only taking advantage of better rates. At least now, they are more aware of the impact of their actions on the overall business.

And Paris is right - it isn't just Toronto and Ontario. I also get lots of calls asking for ridiculous rates. It happens everywhere. At least now, we have brought attention to what is happening to the business all over the country.

And Yokomi is right - cheap aint good and good aint cheap. At least now we know how it affects the girls to discount them by asking for lower rates.

Although it is a bit like the chicken and the egg debate, it is the girls who are dropping their rates and habituating the clients to asking for these prices. At least now, everyone will be better able to uunderstand who is doing what to support or destroy the business.

We aren't going to solve it any more than we have by saying any more. I am glad that we were able to discuss it without too many arguments. And I want to thank the few girls who had the courage to speak frankly about the situation. The tendency is to always make it appear that we are doing great. I am sure that these girls are doing well. Guess who will be on top when things turn back around.

Thank you everybody

Sunshine

none of you girls are right its non of your bussisness what other girls make period if you are hot friendly and nice to your men then they will have no problem coming back again and again,if your a bitch or have a bitchy tone in your voice when answering then fuck off and get another job.only the good sps will make the money in the long run i live way the hell in the middle of nowhere and ya dont see me complaining if the money isnt there for any of you then go get another job instead of bitching about it and look in the mirrer if any of you cant survive on your comebacks then somethings drasticlly wrong and it aint the cheap whores undercutting you.

[Tasha Jones RIP]

none of you girls are right its non of your bussisness what other girls make period if you are hot friendly and nice to your men then they will have no problem coming back again and again,if your a bitch or have a bitchy tone in your voice when answering then fuck off and get another job.only the good sps will make the money in the long run i live way the hell in the middle of nowhere and ya dont see me complaining if the money isnt there for any of you then go get another job instead of bitching about it and look in the mirrer if any of you cant survive on your comebacks then somethings drasticlly wrong and it aint the cheap whores undercutting you.

Oh Lisa please pick a side and just stick to it! One minute you understand and are as upset as the rest of us. The next you are against us...
It is like changing painties with you...never know what you will pick!
Thanks so much for your imput!

Sunshine. That was very well writen and right on point...Thank you!

[sunshine]

Nonsense

none of you girls are right its non of your bussisness what other girls make period if you are hot friendly and nice to your men then they will have no problem coming back again and again,if your a bitch or have a bitchy tone in your voice when answering then fuck off and get another job.only the good sps will make the money in the long run i live way the hell in the middle of nowhere and ya dont see me complaining if the money isnt there for any of you then go get another job instead of bitching about it and look in the mirrer if any of you cant survive on your comebacks then somethings drasticlly wrong and it aint the cheap whores undercutting you.

First of all, it IS my business and if you don't like it then YOU FUCK OFF. You obviously didn't understand what I wrote and I am not going to defend myself to you. The only thing I am going to say is that you can go ahead and bury your head in the sand if you want to but that doesn't mean that this shit isn't going on.

And who is talking about being a bitch? You - Ha, that is funny.

Sunshine

[dan_calgary]

Every single t-girl escort & gg escort gets calls asking for cheaper rates, so f--kin what, like greep said "hang-up"

I have read this thread, and correct me if I'm wrong, but clients & potential clients in Ontario & Alberta have more or less been bashed & bashed and called cheap, and you can't understand why only trash is calling you, yeah great business strategy

yeah i want to be called that, just like you want to be called, a girl who sells herself for money.

Wake-up call to all of you !!!!!!!!!!!!

We the clients really don't f---in care what the price is, as long as it's an enjoyable time, and then we repeat.

Bottom line is there is less clients and more girls working, well then you better find a way to RE-INVENT yourself, some of you haven't changed your pics or website in YEARS,

example, I thought the little Vid Jizelle did, was so cool, and maybe a new way to advertise yourselves, we see you, hear your voice, see you in everyday life. You don't have to show anything.

Yes there are people out there that want it for $50 or less, but then again, why would you want them as a client.
And why would we want a girl that charges $50, give us a LITTLE credit.

like the old saying "if it sounds to good to be true, it probaly is."

HOLY F--K, unreal

and it's worth repeating

$100 or less ... well you get what you pay for, what did you really expect was going to happen

$200 ... hit and miss, but will probaly miss, and then kick yourself after

$300 ... usually a hit, usually a good time,if the girl is a bad SP, not much you can do,

$400 ... will be a great time, never miss

$500 ... god it's gonna be a great nite !!!!!

$800 ... usually 2-3 hour session that makes you sleep good that night

$1000 .. well, its exactly what you would expect for that price, a little piece of heaven and more

you tell the girl before hand that you are willing to spend $500-$1000, trust me she will give you a night to remember. And she will make sure she has no other appointments waiting outside, and attention is on you & you only.

http://tgirlforums.com/yabbse/showth...=126505&page=2

[tslisaparadise]

First of all, it IS my business and if you don't like it then YOU FUCK OFF. You obviously didn't understand what I wrote and I am not going to defend myself to you. The only thing I am going to say is that you can go ahead and bury your head in the sand if you want to but that doesn't mean that this shit isn't going on.

And who is talking about being a bitch? You - Ha, that is funny.

Sunshine

lol i didnt single you i said eveyone and your all bitching about it.