What have you done to Ontario?

[sensual_lover20]

This isn`t Cuba...they will charge what ever they want to charge. You can argue all you want too. If they charge what they want and I want to pay that amount we will do it and it is none of your business. I don`t care what your expenses are and I don`t care what you think their expenses are, it just isn`t any of your business.

This is Toronto, not Cuba and you are correct on this. I know they will charge what they want. I am assessing the reasonableness of their rates by using a comparative to other professions, their life span, education and rates. They are unhappy as they are not obtaining the flow of customers they once did, despite the same rates. They are upset at the lowering prices and I am providing an explanation for this. It is my opinion, whether right or wrong I am entitled to it as you are. Difference is, you are ignorant to my comments and evidently put less thought into yours. I am glad that Andrew69 (appears educated and well composed) agrees with me and provides a rational explanation for his comments unlike yourself. Please explain why my expenses and their expenses is not mine or anyone's business when establishing a price between arms length parties. In addition, please explain how you paying their rate bears any rationale on their complaints on why prices are declining due to less expensive competition. I welcome your comments if properly supported and that of any other forum members.

[dan_calgary]

The problem is many SP's have over valued what they think they are worth, and the lifestyle they think they are entitled to.

Now like any product or service there will always be exceptional providers who can command top dollar for their services. However most will fall in the average category, like any product or service.

In Ontario we have competition, competition drives down prices.

and bottom line is, people are just a lot tighter with money these days, and I think it will continue into 2011, it's not going to get much better,

then you add in all the new girls coming in and potential new girls, that want a piece of the action, it's going to make it tough.

so ...

great sp = $$$ and repeat business

good sp = $ and some repeat business

average sp = you got the money but probaly a one time visit, might return

bad sp = one time only and unlikely to attract new business

and another thing the sp's have to consider is, believe it not, us clients do talk to each other alot, and believe me alot is not posted, whether it be pm, messenger sites, phone, email, etc. When one says that girl was amazing or that girl was terrible, we do hear about it.

[Horizon1]

Some of the people in these forums speak too highly of themselves; lol.
Lower your standard of living and join us in the real world.

[tslisaparadise]

Some of the people in these forums speak too highly of themselves; lol.
Lower your standard of living and join us in the real world.

ill tell ya what when you guys hear one bad thing about me then ill retire untill then im still the best sp on this planet by far if your a top then try having a better time with another sp it just wont happen period i think highly of myself because ive earned it.

[secret3960]

welcome back to calgary looking forward to meeting you

[huge99999]

This is Toronto, not Cuba and you are correct on this. I know they will charge what they want. I am assessing the reasonableness of their rates by using a comparative to other professions, their life span, education and rates. They are unhappy as they are not obtaining the flow of customers they once did, despite the same rates. They are upset at the lowering prices and I am providing an explanation for this. It is my opinion, whether right or wrong I am entitled to it as you are. Difference is, you are ignorant to my comments and evidently put less thought into yours. I am glad that Andrew69 (appears educated and well composed) agrees with me and provides a rational explanation for his comments unlike yourself. Please explain why my expenses and their expenses is not mine or anyone's business when establishing a price between arms length parties. In addition, please explain how you paying their rate bears any rationale on their complaints on why prices are declining due to less expensive competition. I welcome your comments if properly supported and that of any other forum members.

First of all I will admit I am NOT highly educated like yourself and I do make spelling mistakes and I bet my grade 7 english teacher would roll over in her grave if she could read my posts (and also see that i like to suck cocks lol). Maybe you are right that all educated and well composed people would agree with you and not me, but that doesn`t mean you are right and I am wrong. I do have my grade 12 and I also worked 2 and sometimes 3 jobs at one time and now I am what some people would say is rich. I hope you don`t hold that against me, because remember I did this with out being educated and not always being composed like other people on this site. You say "they are unhappy". When reading the post not all of "they" are unhappy. Some even seem happy about their work and their income. Some of the posts say they don`t pay income tax or get their money tax free. I would like to know how many Canadians don`t pay all their taxes. When making your comparative with other professions I noticed you didn`t mention the person walking through the door might be 100 pounds over weight, ugly and have bad hygiene. Yes another profession will meet people like this in their professional life but will not have to have physical contact with them. I think you are ignorant and put less thought into your comments or you would also explain to everyone why someone with a grade 10 education (OMG less education then me) can make 7 million dollars a year in the NHL and have no expenses. I think my point is life is not fair and yes 300 dollars to you might be the same as 30 dollars to me but if I want to give someone 500 dollars for their time and you don`t thats alright but it isn`t anyones business but the two people that are spending time with each other. If the girls want to charge more or less for their time that is their business. For anyone to say you must charge this amount is wrong. Some people can complain all they want but that doesn`t make them right. If I have said anything that has offended you I am sorry...I understand I am straight forward and to the point and that sometimes upsets people. Maybe a little to sarcastic for my own good.
thanks for reading

[sensual_lover20]

First of all I will admit I am NOT highly educated like yourself and I do make spelling mistakes and I bet my grade 7 english teacher would roll over in her grave if she could read my posts (and also see that i like to suck cocks lol). Maybe you are right that all educated and well composed people would agree with you and not me, but that doesn`t mean you are right and I am wrong. I do have my grade 12 and I also worked 2 and sometimes 3 jobs at one time and now I am what some people would say is rich. I hope you don`t hold that against me, because remember I did this with out being educated and not always being composed like other people on this site. You say "they are unhappy". When reading the post not all of "they" are unhappy. Some even seem happy about their work and their income. Some of the posts say they don`t pay income tax or get their money tax free. I would like to know how many Canadians don`t pay all their taxes. When making your comparative with other professions I noticed you didn`t mention the person walking through the door might be 100 pounds over weight, ugly and have bad hygiene. Yes another profession will meet people like this in their professional life but will not have to have physical contact with them. I think you are ignorant and put less thought into your comments or you would also explain to everyone why someone with a grade 10 education (OMG less education then me) can make 7 million dollars a year in the NHL and have no expenses. I think my point is life is not fair and yes 300 dollars to you might be the same as 30 dollars to me but if I want to give someone 500 dollars for their time and you don`t thats alright but it isn`t anyones business but the two people that are spending time with each other. If the girls want to charge more or less for their time that is their business. For anyone to say you must charge this amount is wrong. Some people can complain all they want but that doesn`t make them right. If I have said anything that has offended you I am sorry...I understand I am straight forward and to the point and that sometimes upsets people. Maybe a little to sarcastic for my own good.
thanks for reading

I am not offended, in fact I thank you for your opinion and comments. You seem to be educated enough to type some coherent arguments, which you should have done initially in your first post. I welcome everyone comments and again reiterate that these are opinions so neither of us are right or wrong. This is my response:

You cannot compare NHL players to escorts, even in terms of education. I don't want to go into this as it is inherently obvious. I am not insulting those who choose a route without formal education, but merely state that those who invested in it will clearly find the prices inadequate given my arguments above. I too not several who have done well without education, but these days are starting to dwindle in economic recessions.

The ones who are unhappy is nearly everyone. It is just not publicized. Hang out with some escorts and you will see. Guys are constantly low balling them and expecting free sex, moreso now than before.

I am an accountant, we occasionally have clients with insanely messed up tax situations which would make you pull you hair out to fix things. Much like an escort taking on a fat client would stress them. Difference is, we usually spend more time in stress than they do. Personally, I feel that while an escort job is difficult I think I can last longer an escort then they could last doing bookkeeping, taxes and fighting Canada Revenue Agency. However, we made both our choices regardless.

Certainly from a tax perspective there are several communities who are notorious for having an underground economy and not paying taxes. Several criminal activities are not taxed. This is unfair again, but that is life. However, as a taxpayer who pays full taxes to see others cause a free rider problem boils my blood. How would you feel if they had a swear jar and you (and some others) had to contribute a dollar everytime you cursed, but no one else had too. The monies collected are used to give everyone health care access for free. Do you think this fair? I don't care who else doesn't pay tax, I am pointing out the one profession and none others.

Lastly, regarding your final point on letting them charge what they want. Below is the tax definition of fair market value.

"Fair market value (FMV) is an estimate of the market value of a property, based on what a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured buyer would probably pay to a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured seller in the real estate market"

Based on this, you are correct. However, in reality while someone would pay $10,000 for a stamp collection who does this as a hobby and the other person would not pay a single penny, demonstrates this concept. However, I will argue that in the case of escorts persons may be not knowledgeable and pressured by their second head ultimately distorting (FMV). Therefore, given the following I reassessed MY FMV which is clearly the same as yours, Mr. Stamp Collector. To each their own. Personally it has been a long long time since I have seen an escort, just like sharing my thoughts and opinions on this website.

[falkon]

I have to agree on this topic and disagree as well.

The problem is that some girls will go as low as $60. How can any escort compete with that or want to for that matter. How could any guy who has respect for himself be willing to see someone with such low standards? The main problem is, once a guy pays that price he will never go back to paying the norm. I will admit my rates have stayed about the same over the years. Between $100- $200 (more when I am travelling). I think that is a fair rate and the guys always get the same service. But I will not lower myself to anything less.

When you get cheap guys calling it waste your time and your minutes and makes you feel dirty. It fucks up the rest of your day. If you take those type of guys they always expect the world for those food stamps and always seem to be more work then there worth. Agreed you might see more clients but in the end your doing more work for less pay and the clients are getting poor service! You get what you pay for!

10 Clients at $100 = $1000 and 10 hours of non stop work
5 Clients at $200 = $1000 and only 5 hours of work.

Plus more times then not it is with someone you can enjoy. You do not have to keep answering your phone and double booking just to make your $1000 for that day. Think about that. Anyone charging that little, think how many guys must lay on her bed to make enough to make it worth it? When would she be able to change the sheets or wash herself? Think if you are number 10 for that day, do you really think she is into it or how much dna must be on her and on the sheets, it is just nasty! In the end, paying a bit more is not only better for the escort but also for the client!


Just my thoughts
Tasha

it's not the first time I read this kinda thread.

Anyway, I started typing a very long post, about marketing, about the Wal-Mart of this world and the hither end stores, but in the end, there's only thing you need to know, not only you Miss Tasha, but all the ladies: no girl should feel ashamed for having clients trying to get a cheap ride. It's nothing personal, it's a business. Yes, it's you personally, but you have to detach yourself from this.
If it's one of your regular clients asking you for 60$/hour, ok, be worried
But some random guy calling? That's like any business out there.
Anyone who has run any type of business will tell you this: don't be ashamed of anything.

It's easier said than done, but it's the only way to do it. You ever heard of lawyers complaining about the prices dropping? I know for a fact some lawyers charge near 1000$ an hour in Toronto. It's not like there isn't any lawyers out there... ah, actually, in Quebec city right now, one attorney is billing the government 700$/hour for her services... It's not like there's a shortage of lawyers in Quebec city, in fact, some are even sharing the same building since there's not so much space.

Anyway stuff you surely know, but still: emphasize on the quality of your service, that you don't rush clients (as it is said in your escort profile), etc, etc. Differentiate yourself from the other girls.
Some clients will understand, some won't.
Some just want a cheap fuck/blow job.
Some are desperately hanging out in bus stops and other public transportation waiting for Miss Barbie...
Some others will want quality.

But all clients want a fair price, and many potential clients maybe operating in the dark, so to speak, so it's up to you to inform them about your services, who you are, who you are not.

Also, I don't think it's something new. When I was a teenager, first walking the streets of Montreal, I got told a story about this place where you would go, and no matter the money you got they had something for you. For 50$, you got the old toothless lady. For an 100$, you got something else. For 500$ you got VIP, etc, etc.
Reading a story in a Montreal newspaper last year, they had this series on prostitution. from the lowest street girl addicted to crack, charging 50$ for a toothless blowjob, apparently one of the mose popular in her neighbourhood, to the high end escorts.

Things don't really change.
And for money... ah well, for money, many people will do lots of silly thing.
I was amazed to discover once what people could do for 100$ after a radio shock jock announced he would give that sum of money to the person making the most disgusting thing.
He got more than he bargained for.

Bottom line: it's nothing personal, it's just business.
I'm sorry it happens to any of you, but it's not going away, and as you said Miss Tasha, you understand the client who asks for less. You have to find ways to get beyond this.


P.S.
ah, after reading your long personal story, I understand your particular point of view.
But still, imho, and again easier said than done, you should try to seperate the two issues: the girl doing the undercutting, and the client/almost friend violating your trust, two different things. Stuff like that (long time friend not trusting me) happened to me once and it hurts, I know that. But eventually, you have to let go. There's really no other choice.

Sorry for intruding... Just a long time lurker here, felt like writing.

[huge99999]

I am not offended, in fact I thank you for your opinion and comments. You seem to be educated enough to type some coherent arguments, which you should have done initially in your first post. I welcome everyone comments and again reiterate that these are opinions so neither of us are right or wrong. This is my response:

You cannot compare NHL players to escorts, even in terms of education. I don't want to go into this as it is inherently obvious. I am not insulting those who choose a route without formal education, but merely state that those who invested in it will clearly find the prices inadequate given my arguments above. I too not several who have done well without education, but these days are starting to dwindle in economic recessions.

The ones who are unhappy is nearly everyone. It is just not publicized. Hang out with some escorts and you will see. Guys are constantly low balling them and expecting free sex, moreso now than before.

I am an accountant, we occasionally have clients with insanely messed up tax situations which would make you pull you hair out to fix things. Much like an escort taking on a fat client would stress them. Difference is, we usually spend more time in stress than they do. Personally, I feel that while an escort job is difficult I think I can last longer an escort then they could last doing bookkeeping, taxes and fighting Canada Revenue Agency. However, we made both our choices regardless.

Certainly from a tax perspective there are several communities who are notorious for having an underground economy and not paying taxes. Several criminal activities are not taxed. This is unfair again, but that is life. However, as a taxpayer who pays full taxes to see others cause a free rider problem boils my blood. How would you feel if they had a swear jar and you (and some others) had to contribute a dollar everytime you cursed, but no one else had too. The monies collected are used to give everyone health care access for free. Do you think this fair? I don't care who else doesn't pay tax, I am pointing out the one profession and none others.

Lastly, regarding your final point on letting them charge what they want. Below is the tax definition of fair market value.

"Fair market value (FMV) is an estimate of the market value of a property, based on what a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured buyer would probably pay to a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured seller in the real estate market"

Based on this, you are correct. However, in reality while someone would pay $10,000 for a stamp collection who does this as a hobby and the other person would not pay a single penny, demonstrates this concept. However, I will argue that in the case of escorts persons may be not knowledgeable and pressured by their second head ultimately distorting (FMV). Therefore, given the following I reassessed MY FMV which is clearly the same as yours, Mr. Stamp Collector. To each their own. Personally it has been a long long time since I have seen an escort, just like sharing my thoughts and opinions on this website.

The accountant I use has been doing his job for over 40 years...I bet an escort would have to charge less or LOW BALL the other escorts if they escorted for more than 40 years. So i disagree that you could escort deep into your sixties while you could be an accountant into your sixties. I do know what taxes are used for, but I disagree that health care is free. As an accountant you know if there is a cost then it is not free. An example of the point I was making was people who get tips or tradesmen who work for cash. The list goes on and on. The system is not perfect as you know in your job. If someone does not pay all there taxes it does not bother me. You could also use your arguement to say the more taxes you pay the more government services you should get (I do not agree with this). One could make the arguement that the taxes one has to give to the government is screwing us making the government the escort.lol. It does not matter if one uses the wrong head before spending time with with one of the ladies. What makes a person (myself included) buy 100 pairs of shoes when one only has 2 feet (or as a friend of mine 1 foot). What head are we using when we do this. The one point you made in your last arguement that I totally agree with is I AM RIGHT. Thank you. When it comes down to it each lady will make a judgement on what to charge for their time. The amount might be the right one and it might be the wrong one. Some will complain and some will not. Some will be happy and some will not be happy. Some will make a lot of money and some will not. It doesn`t matter what you and I think is right or wrong. It is what they think because it is their business and not ours and that is what I said in my first post.
thanks for the discussion

[maddplotter]

First of all I will admit I am NOT highly educated like yourself and I do make spelling mistakes and I bet my grade 7 english teacher would roll over in her grave if she could read my posts (and also see that i like to suck cocks lol). I think my point is life is not fair and yes 300 dollars to you might be the same as 30 dollars to me but if I want to give someone 500 dollars for their time and you don`t thats alright but it isn`t anyones business but the two people that are spending time with each other. If the girls want to charge more or less for their time that is their business. For anyone to say you must charge this amount is wrong. Some people can complain all they want but that doesn`t make them right. If I have said anything that has offended you I am sorry...I understand I am straight forward and to the point and that sometimes upsets people. Maybe a little to sarcastic for my own good.
thanks for reading

I think this is the heart of the debate and I agree. The client can not set the price. They can try to negotiate but ultimately the decisions is the SP's. For some girls, there is no negotiation because the price is firm, hopefully, like their cocks. The client can "shop with their feet", in other words, seek out a competitor with a lower price. Again, visiting one of these girls is a luxury, so if I can not afford it at this time, then I will have to pass. I am not going to wallow in self-righteous indignation and say that they are unfair in their pricing. Simply I will just move on to something else to preoccupy my time. Right now, I have to go check my lottery tickets. *crosses fingers.

[wondergirl]

maybe some of the attractive trannies found other jobs
whats great about toronto is that there is a big glbt community and we can take advantage of our visibilitis to persue a career that is both legal and meaningful.
But if someone really want to do sex work, than all the power to them.

[sunshine]

It's my life

I started this thread to apologize for not being able to continue with my Ontario tour. Not to repeat what I have already said, I sincerely regret that I had to cut it short.

I was hoping that this thread would be closed and that we could move on to other things. Now I really feel it is time to shut it down. This thread has been hijacked by a discussion of how much money girls should charge.

As had been said by a few, it is none of your business. You have no idea what it entails to do what we do. Some talk as if we could just decide what we do - go get a different job, etc. As if our will alone could determine what we do in life. But ask yourself - are any of you in that position? - able to choose what you do to survive? Able to shrug off the influence of your entire lives? If any of you are in this position, you are in the minority.

I should know what it takes to do what I do. I am in a much better position to know than any of you. As has already been said, it is my choice what rates I charge. The client can try to negotiate, the other girls can drop their rates to try to attract more clients, but when it comes to my rates the ultimate decision is mine alone.

I am not going to defend my decision. I am not going to explain the breakdown of expenses versus income. I am not going to justify it in any way to anyone - it is not up for debate and this discussion will not alter it.

As a client, you have to shop within your means. If you want an expensive item, you have to save up for it. If you want to settle for an inexpensive item, you may get it sooner. Your budget will dictate what you can and cannot buy. Seeing an escort may be considered a luxury expenditure. Then again, if you are in the lifestyle and you opt for escorts as opposed to a LTR, it may not be considered a luxury at all. This is for you to decide if a decision is within your reach. The point is that you only have a choice within the constraints of your situation. You can imagine how great it would be if this or that were true but that is just wishful thinking.

There is only one thing wrong with the analogy of purchasing an item. I am not an item. None of the other girls are items either. We are human beings. This isn't a thing you are purchasing. Certainly it is a contract. Certainly it is an exchange. But the girl is not a thing any more than you are a thing. In many ways, it is similar to the contract that exists in a LTR. Respect for your partner is an essential element, as is recognition of what your partner brings to your life. As soon as one of the two partners loses respect for the other, the relationship is at risk.

It is not so different with you and an escort. There must be mutual respect and recognition. If either element is missing, no amount of money on your part can make up for it, no level of service from the girl can fix it either. Just because it is a temporary relationship does not excuse either party from being a decent human being.

If you can look at it that way, you can go one step further and consider that your payment is a form of recognition and acknowledgement, a form of support for your temporary partner. Don't ever think that the girl does not appreciate it. But if you discount what your partner brings to the table, if you belittle her by treating her like an employee, if you argue with her about what is the least amount that she requires in order to meet her obligations, you have already done great damage.

It really is very much like it is in an LTR. Your payment is only one aspect of a greater commitment. The better you are as a person, the better your experience will be in your relationship. You are not buying a sexual plaything. You are in a periodic relationship. So let me turn this around and ask YOU some questions: What kind of relationship do you want? What are you bringing to the table? Are your expectations reasonable when it comes to your partner?

Sunshine

[tslisaparadise]

I started this thread to apologize for not being able to continue with my Ontario tour. Not to repeat what I have already said, I sincerely regret that I had to cut it short.

I was hoping that this thread would be closed and that we could move on to other things. Now I really feel it is time to shut it down. This thread has been hijacked by a discussion of how much money girls should charge.

As had been said by a few, it is none of your business. You have no idea what it entails to do what we do. Some talk as if we could just decide what we do - go get a different job, etc. As if our will alone could determine what we do in life. But ask yourself - are any of you in that position? - able to choose what you do to survive? Able to shrug off the influence of your entire lives? If any of you are in this position, you are in the minority.

I should know what it takes to do what I do. I am in a much better position to know than any of you. As has already been said, it is my choice what rates I charge. The client can try to negotiate, the other girls can drop their rates to try to attract more clients, but when it comes to my rates the ultimate decision is mine alone.

I am not going to defend my decision. I am not going to explain the breakdown of expenses versus income. I am not going to justify it in any way to anyone - it is not up for debate and this discussion will not alter it.

As a client, you have to shop within your means. If you want an expensive item, you have to save up for it. If you want to settle for an inexpensive item, you may get it sooner. Your budget will dictate what you can and cannot buy. Seeing an escort may be considered a luxury expenditure. Then again, if you are in the lifestyle and you opt for escorts as opposed to a LTR, it may not be considered a luxury at all. This is for you to decide if a decision is within your reach. The point is that you only have a choice within the constraints of your situation. You can imagine how great it would be if this or that were true but that is just wishful thinking.

There is only one thing wrong with the analogy of purchasing an item. I am not an item. None of the other girls are items either. We are human beings. This isn't a thing you are purchasing. Certainly it is a contract. Certainly it is an exchange. But the girl is not a thing any more than you are a thing. In many ways, it is similar to the contract that exists in a LTR. Respect for your partner is an essential element, as is recognition of what your partner brings to your life. As soon as one of the two partners loses respect for the other, the relationship is at risk.

It is not so different with you and an escort. There must be mutual respect and recognition. If either element is missing, no amount of money on your part can make up for it, no level of service from the girl can fix it either. Just because it is a temporary relationship does not excuse either party from being a decent human being.

If you can look at it that way, you can go one step further and consider that your payment is a form of recognition and acknowledgement, a form of support for your temporary partner. Don't ever think that the girl does not appreciate it. But if you discount what your partner brings to the table, if you belittle her by treating her like an employee, if you argue with her about what is the least amount that she requires in order to meet her obligations, you have already done great damage.

It really is very much like it is in an LTR. Your payment is only one aspect of a greater commitment. The better you are as a person, the better your experience will be in your relationship. You are not buying a sexual plaything. You are in a periodic relationship. So let me turn this around and ask YOU some questions: What kind of relationship do you want? What are you bringing to the table? Are your expectations reasonable when it comes to your partner?

Sunshine

sunshine you are 100 per cent correct on every point,maybe the most honest thought out post ive ever read on tgf i firmly believe you would make a great writer i know id buy your book.

[Einstein]

sunshine you are 100 per cent correct on every point,maybe the most honest thought out post ive ever read on tgf i firmly believe you would make a great writer i know id buy your book.

Sunshine is very a very inteligent person I can tell that just
from her posts and writing/vocabulary. I would have definitely
wanted to sit by & study with her in school.

[sensual_lover20]

Huge9999,

Some of our escorts are older than you think. Not everyone can be 22 every year. However, you don't see escorts in their sixties but you do see accountants that age (and many). When looked at from a GG perspective I am sure there are tons of escorts who have been doing it for 30 years. Many before were suggesting their lifespan was 10 years, but I think it can be much greater than that and is. The accountant definitely does not make the money in his early years than an escort does and as easily from a work standpoint. Different for TG's is their transitioning whereas as a GG does not.

Health care is free and paid by OHIP in Canada as long as you have a health card. This is being paid by our taxes. I am surprised you don't care about people not paying their share, perhaps one day when your sitting in a line up in a hospital after a bad accident you will wish there was more money around to pay for more doctors at a hospital. Perhaps that may just be ineffciency. I think it does mean more services, maybe not in particular in the medical field. HST was introduced as we are in a deficit and the tax will help fund it.

What me and you think matters, it is called customer feedback and does in fact dictate supply and demand. If all the men colluded, held off on the girls until they reduced their rate it would happen since they have bills to pay. Perhaps some may leave, however, some have fixed comittments. Similarily they can have an escort strike and not provide their services until we pay their rates. Considering they are a luxury and not a necessity it will not happen.

The item which I agreed with you on is that they can charge whatever they want. This is obvious. Again, people are willing to pay then it doesn't matter. When people don't, then they why via customer feedback does matter.

Wondergirl,

You look great!

Sunshine,

No need to explain, you and I both have an inherent bias being on opposite sides of the spectrum (sort of since I have paid what they asked me). In the end of all arguments, we should all agree to disagree. I will add again that you are intelligent and wonder where you were educated.