CD's & TV's vs Shemales.

[Clone 0101]

Clone. Regarding this thread it was created before th other involving the flaming wars between some of the girls here. This thread I created was solely for discussion somehow it seemed that the arguments from the other deleted thread traversed onto this one.

Well I didnt drag it over here so I cannot be blamed for that. As far as I was concerned it was dead and over with and I went on with my life like most people would over a petty disagreement on the internet. Guess some people just like to rehash and drag shit out. Oh and not to mention talk shit to earn brownie points with other members.

[Rantsalot]

...

Well I didnt drag it over here so I cannot be blamed for that. As far as I was concerned it was dead and over with and I went on with my life like most people would over a petty disagreement on the internet. Guess some people just like to rehash and drag shit out. Oh and not to mention talk shit to earn brownie points with other members.

That's fine. I aint blaimn' nobody. Just stating what I saw. What more can we say? Nothing. So thats the end of that.

[Clone 0101]

That's fine. I aint blaimn' nobody. Just stating what I saw. What more can we say? Nothing. So thats the end of that.

I wasnt going off on ya or blaming you for anything. Just speaking my mind.

[Rantsalot]

I wasnt going off on ya or blaming you for anything. Just speaking my mind.

I know

[Clone 0101]

I know

Awesome

[sunshine]

very impressed

Ok, I never intended to post. I joined this site because I was interested in attitudes towards transwomen. But the misuse of the terms by people who should know what they mean is driving me nuts.

crossdresser - someone who dresses as the opposite sex as a sexual fetish

transvestite - their dressing may have some component of sexual fetish but they tend to go beyond that and they may live a large portion of their lives as the opposite gender even though they identify as their birth gender.

transsexual - someone who identifies as the gender opposite their birth gender. They can choose to express their identity in different ways and may be pre, post, or non op.

shemale - an adult movie term for a transgendered performer

transgendered - this is an umbrella term that includes anyone and everyone that plays with gender boundaries. While this term does include transsexuals it also includes crossdressers, transvestites, and even drag queens.

Think of the word transgendered like the word automobile, it doesn't tell you very much. If I told you I was sitting in an automobile right now I could be sitting in anything from a lotus to a greyhound bus. When I tell you I'm transgendered I'm being just as vague. However, when I tell you that I'm a non op transsexual woman I'm being very specific.

Those definitions are not just my opinion. Those are the the definitions used in both the social work field and the psychiatric field. Except for the term shemale, that one you will not find in the DSM-V or any other diagnostic manual or text book.

Why the strife between the groups? A lot of it is political, often transsexuals see transvestites as detrimental to their efforts to achieve equal rights. That's also one of the reasons gays are hostile towards those who are transgendered. In addition, we all judge other people based on our own experience. For instance, gay men see transsexuals and assume that the transsexuals are also gay men who can't deal with being gay and transition to make their attraction to men acceptable to society. This is of coarse nonsense, but based on the gay males experience it is the intuitive answer. And finally people like to build up their self confidence by telling themselves that they are better then next group.

Let me start by saying that I am very impressed. You obviously understand these terms and have no difficulty seperating the themes. However, I would like to comment even further in order to speak to Rantsalot's original point.

As for acceptance of any person identified as belonging to one of the categories, other members on the fringe of gender and sexual issues will usually be the first to be accepting and the first to speak in the defense of anyone who is being attacked. I think this is generally true. It makes sense because, at least, these other members of fringe groups have examined the issues in a very profound and personal way. They have a real opinion. Generally.

The drama comes when you superimpose this subject matter with the business of escorting and is a function of this last.

While most people who identify or are identified are not involved in the escort business, those that are involved with it are involved in a competitive endeavour.

Now let me speak about the TS escorting business.

Every TS escort began with a personal situation which was a factor in their becoming an escort. For many, the desire to transition and the great cost associated with it was seen as a motivation to enter the potentially lucrative world of escorting. For others, there was no desire to transition but there was a perception that a niche market was available to them as TS that was not available to them as men. And for others still, it was some other confluence of events that led them to the escorting business. Every girl has a different story.

One thing is for sure. When starting out as a TS escort, EVERY girl started from where she was. It should not be laudible to fault a girl who is just starting out because she is not on hormones, has no implants, still has a beard, whatever. Give the girl a break - she is just starting.

Shemale is a term invented by the porn industry to describe something that does NOT exist! Hey - I like the term. I use it. Men understand what I mean when I use it. But there is no such thing. What there is, is a girl who is in some state of transition or who isn't. In other words, such a wide array of possibilities that it could not be called a group if you wanted to. But, in the industry, girls are happy to use terms like shemale or TS for their own ends - a way to put themselves out there in such a way as to attract a clientele that was largely created by the porn industry - so we use the terms.

When a girl spends years and countless thousands of dollars to transition and sees a competitor who has apparently done no work at all, it riles her to be classified in the same group and often, there will be recriminations and drama. On the other hand, there are some TS escorts who never had the intention to transition. Some girls identify more with the myth Androgyne, a creature with both male and female attributes in perfectr balance. The term shemale does not really define these girls at all. Can they be faulted for putting themselves out there as escorts? No. Can they call themselves TS? Like it or not, they will appropriate the terms that people know so that they can reach out a clientele.

I have transitioned almost as far as I think I am going to. But when I started out, I was singled out and attacked by girls who had transitioned while I had not yet done so. I remember a message left on my phone that went something like this:

"Listen to me Sunshine, here in Quebec, we are an association of real transsexuals - you are not one of us. You place ads saying you are a transsexual but you don't have any breasts. You are a fake TS - get out!"

The message was really funny actually - it makes me laugh whenever I think about it. But it illustrates what I am saying.

If this is as clear as mud, forgive me. For me, it seems obvious. But to the men out there and, evidently, to some members of the various groups mentionned, it may not be so evident as all that.

To tell the truth, I probably consider myself a non-op transsexual. That's me personally. But in my business, I construct a persona that men will understand - shemale works fine for me.

Hope this helps,

Sunshine
Your French Canadian TS girl in Calgary

[tslisaparadise]

I know

you kids need to just fuck each other and get it over with lol

[Clone 0101]

you kids need to just fuck each other and get it over with lol

LOL Me and Rants were never fighting. I actually do not think myself and Rants have ever had an argument.

[sj_]

Sunshine, I can understand that making something into a business tends to add drama to the situation. But I'm not sure I share your faith in the fringe groups. I think a lot of them do think things out, but not all of them. I've heard the cisgendered complain about transsexuals, transsexuals complain about crosdressers, crosdressers complain about crosdressers who don't bother to wear makeup. Makes me wonder who the fringe group is. Seems like one group is always on the fringe of another and every group has at least one fringe group to pick on. I've even heard older transsexual women complain about how much easier it is for transsexuals to transition now then it was 20 years ago.

I suppose that is why I get a little frazzled when people misuse the term transgender. We have specific words to separate us, but transgender is a term that's supposed to unite us.

[sunshine]

Sunshine, I can understand that making something into a business tends to add drama to the situation. But I'm not sure I share your faith in the fringe groups. I think a lot of them do think things out, but not all of them. I've heard the cisgendered complain about transsexuals, transsexuals complain about crosdressers, crosdressers complain about crosdressers who don't bother to wear makeup. Makes me wonder who the fringe group is. Seems like one group is always on the fringe of another and every group has at least one fringe group to pick on. I've even heard older transsexual women complain about how much easier it is for transsexuals to transition now then it was 20 years ago.

I suppose that is why I get a little frazzled when people misuse the term transgender. We have specific words to separate us, but transgender is a term that's supposed to unite us.

Thanks for letting me know about it. My experience is very limited. I can only refer to the attitude of the few friends who identify themselves as members we are discussing, as well as those I know who are lesbians or gays. I have never heard a disparaging word. I myself am very open and accepting and it may be that I am projecting that onto the world at large.

I am saddened to hear about such ridiculous bickering. Don't we have enough on our plate already? Whatever happened to empathy? The travails of getting through life should create an empathetic reaction when others embark on such a difficult journey. I would have thought...

But then, the world is getting so small and crowded that an increase in conflict is to be expected I suppose. I am sure you know what you are talking about. Maybe you could share your personal experience - what led you to this observation?

I really appreciate that you decided to post.

Sunshine

[dom r]

Well transvestites are exactly like crossdresser which are MEN IN FEMALE MAKE UP AND FEMALE CLOTHING and are not senusous because THEY ARE MEN. Shemales are NOT men because female hormones changed their physical growth and appearance to female thus they are sensuous women....senusous women with cocks.

Now what category am I by looking at my pix?

[greep]

Well transvestites are exactly like crossdresser which are MEN IN FEMALE MAKE UP AND FEMALE CLOTHING and are not senusous because THEY ARE MEN. Shemales are NOT men because female hormones changed their physical growth and appearance to female thus they are sensuous women....senusous women with cocks.

Now what category am I by looking at my pix?

Finally someone who knows what their talking about on this subject. Thanks dom for your input. Things are looking more clearer now.

[chantel]

what category are you in,,im not sure but i would say by looking at your pics and your informative answers your a professor of phsycology or you read alot

[Rantsalot]

...

Sunshine, I can understand that making something into a business tends to add drama to the situation. But I'm not sure I share your faith in the fringe groups. I think a lot of them do think things out, but not all of them. I've heard the cisgendered complain about transsexuals, transsexuals complain about crosdressers, crosdressers complain about crosdressers who don't bother to wear makeup. Makes me wonder who the fringe group is. Seems like one group is always on the fringe of another and every group has at least one fringe group to pick on. I've even heard older transsexual women complain about how much easier it is for transsexuals to transition now then it was 20 years ago.

I suppose that is why I get a little frazzled when people misuse the term transgender. We have specific words to separate us, but transgender is a term that's supposed to unite us.

And yet I hear the exact opposite to all this. Point being I do not think one such group is said to be more on the fringe than another. It's all speculative.

[Alexis]

WOW!

Thanks SJ for your input..

I agree with the textbook definitions of the terms..

Further we can see by how people respond that there are misconceptions, misunderstandings and great differences in how transgendered individuals see themselves and others. By me stating that I'm a transvestite I would be wrong by some and correct by others interpretations of the word.

This is Websters dictionary for the labels..

Definition of TRANSVESTITE

: a person and especially a male who adopts the dress and often the behavior typical of the opposite sex especially for purposes of emotional or sexual gratification

Definition of TRANSGENDER

: of, relating to, or being a person (as a transsexual or transvestite) who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth

Definition of TRANSSEXUAL

: a person who strongly identifies with the opposite sex and may seek to live as a member of this sex especially by undergoing surgery and hormone therapy to obtain the necessary physical appearance (as by changing the external sex organs)

The term "Shemale" does not exist in the dictionary..

Personally I guess based upon the textbook definitions I'd say I fit into all of these definitions..

Good thing I'm happy with who I am and don't really choose to be classed into a group. It does matter tho in terms of being an escort, or a professional domme..

I did feel rather offended recently though when someone called me a drag queen.. I always thought drag queens were gay guys that dressed up in girls clothes..