Ladies, don't you think discrimination should be banned?

[Guest]

[discovigilante]

I can't match your passion and time dedicated for this thread, but rest assured your opinion and argument has my interest.

Why do you see all males dressing as females and/or trying to pass as females to be the same as a transgendered person?

I hope you do not believe that a transgendered identity is the same as any and all of these examples from entertainment? They share very little except the superficial performance of adopting the appearance of the opposite sex.

But this is the crux of discrimination. Discrimination is the act of the prejudiced person. Prejudice as the source of discrimination is bread from ignorance. A prejudiced person chooses to ignore, omit, or confuse information that can enlighten them on a subject. And, worst of all, they chose to stubbornly hold onto information that is subjective or just plain wrong.
So, if we assume that these examples from entertainment serve as the information that defines the transgender identity in the mind of the prejudiced person, then yes, all these examples are a part of discrimination.

But, the problem is that the 2D manufactured representations provided by TV (and film) do not have enough power to serve alone as the source of a prejudice. As I said earlier each person has their beliefs, emotions, and attitudes that perpetually change how a persons acts in and views their world.

One thing is for sure. This thread is full of heavy posts. Did I write too much? Still too egg-heady? Whatever, I want a smarter world.

[discovigilante]

Okay so I want to make it clear. I am not saying this stuff from personal experience or opinion. All I am saying has come from years of education and personal interest. Because of that most of what I am saying is actually regurgitating the works of much more intelligent people than me.
People like Marshall McLuhan, Theodore Adorno, Max Horkheimer, Janice Radway, John Berger, Laura Mulvey, John Fiske, Zygmunt Bauman, Stuart Hall, and many others. (Ya I had to scan the bookshelf a little for that list)

Also I would recommend watching the film "Paris is Burning" (1990). A beautiful documentary about the creation of the drag ball and vogueing (like what Madonna sang about).

[Guest]

Oh no! LOL

Hi,

I can't match your passion and time dedicated for this thread, but rest assured your opinion and argument has my interest.

Well, you could match my dedicated time if you cared about it, but you are here for the fun times
right, see some pics, be witty, blah blah blah show off your abs and cute look. Ya ya, talk hockey, respond (ahem) to my posts (and still ask silly questions).




Here's one.

Why do you see all males dressing as females and/or trying to pass as females to be the same as a transgendered person?

What!?

I hope you do not believe that a transgendered identity is the same as any and all of these examples from entertainment?

You need to be a little more specific in what you say.
Concerning the clips i show in this thread, i think it's pretty clear that it's been a very large contributing factor for proving discrimination exists and continues to exist so long as cartoons and movies follow the same dirty path they've been on since Hollywood decided it would be funny to portray TGs, in general, as target for discrimination.

I've asked the question in a few posts - if you disagree with me when i say that television and movies discriminate or encourage discrimination, then please by all means, tell me and everyone else why YOU THINK TGs / TSs / CDs have been discriminated against for all these years.

They share very little except the superficial performance of adopting the appearance of the
opposite sex.

I keep telling you what i am talking about and you try to say that i am saying something completely different .
They only have to share the ?discrimination part?. Get it, now!?

But this is the crux of discrimination.

What is the crux? Is it that the real life TGs don't share discrimination encouraged by TG lunatics/killers on television and in the movies?
Have you ever gotten all dressed up like a woman and seriously applied for a job?
Have you ever went to a trade school all dressed up like a woman, as an adult, and been harassed right out of there?
Try it.
We'll see your escort listing on www.shemalecanada.com soon after. And then you'd even have some TSs harassing you or, at least, backstabbing you, in many cases because you're not enough of this or too much of that.
Geez, what's a t-girl to do ? jump off a bridge, maybe?

The crux of Discrimination is the act of the prejudiced person. Prejudice as the source of discrimination is bred from ignorance. A prejudiced person chooses to ignore, omit, or confuse information that can enlighten them on a subject. And, worst of all, they choose to stubbornly hold onto information that is subjective or just
plain wrong.

Well, this thread in not about defining what prejudice, discrimination, or ignorance is.
The fact that you try to show me the definition shows me you are having difficulties with it. If you don't want sarcasm from me, please don't define words for me. Because then, you are being sarcastic with me.

• Stereotyping others often results from, and leads to, prejudice and bigotry.
• Unchecked prejudice and bigotry leads to discrimination, violence, and, in extreme cases, genocide.
• Prejudice can be spread by the use of propaganda and inflamed by demagogues.
• Language, particularly slang, is often used to dehumanize members of certain groups of people, and this dehumanization is a precursor of discrimination, isolation, and violence.

So, if we assume that these examples from entertainment serve as the information that defines the transgender identity in the mind of the prejudiced person, then yes, all these examples are a part
of discrimination.

?These examples?, the ones i show in this thread in the form of articles and movie clips, show discrimination, yes.
I am not saying that because there is a TG person on tv that it's discrimination. I thought the Flip Wilson clips were a great example of that. Especially the clip with George Carlin who's bit it was to purposely act discriminatory towards Geraldine Jones so she could snap back. That was great. I guess you missed that part.
People become influenced BECAUSE of television, movies and cartoons. Why are you trying to debate this fact? Is it because...

A prejudiced person chooses to ignore, omit, or confuse information that can enlighten them on a subject. And, worst of all, they chose to stubbornly hold onto information that is subjective or just plain wrong.

.
.

But, the problem is that the 2D manufactured representations provided by TV (and film) do not have enough power...

Oh, they do have enough power! This is what this entire thread is about.
Television ads don't make people go out and buy things?? You're kidding me?? I just see have to see a McDonald's commercial on television and my mouth waters ? i change the tv station or mute the sound when i see the ads.
If they can make you buy things, they can easily make you think things. And if you can't see that fact, i strongly suggest that you unplug your tv set for a few months and catch up with where you left off in your personal growth.
If you believe what you write when you say that the media doesn't influence the way we think, ?Houston, we have a problem .?

But, the problem is that the 2D manufactured representations provided by TV (and film) do not have enough power to serve alone as the source of a prejudice. As I said earlier each person has their beliefs, emotions, and attitudes that perpetually change how a persons acts in and views their world.

Television and movies and news stories and real life stories and then cartoons and sit-coms and all the rest of the exposure TGs get on shows like Springer all influences the public's opinion all across the board and it paints a pretty grim acceptance pattern for TGs in mainstream society.

One thing is for sure. This thread is full of heavy posts. Did I write too much? Still too egg-heady? Whatever, I want a smarter world.

The heavy posts are from me, thanks.
"Did i write too much?" Well, you write too much only when you use many words to not say anything.
"Still egg-heady?" I thought egg-heads paid attention a lot more, sorry.
You certainly can write paragraphs and sentences that can confuse the topic, yes. That's why i need to take them apart and address them one by one.

Okay so I want to make it clear. I am not saying this stuff from personal experience or opinion. All I am saying has come from years of education and personal interest. Because of that most of what I am saying is actually regurgitating the works of much more intelligent people than me.
People like Marshall McLuhan, Theodore Adorno, Max Horkheimer, Janice Radway, John Berger, Laura Mulvey, John Fiske, Zygmunt Bauman, Stuart Hall, and many others. (Ya I had to scan the bookshelf
a little for that list)

Oh i see, so all of these people say that television and movies don't influence what people think? Is that what i see you ?regurgitatiing? ?
Hmm, i wonder why so much money is spent on advertising, then.

Also I would recommend watching the film "Paris is Burning" (1990). A beautiful documentary about the creation of the drag ball and vogueing like what Madonna sang about).

Well, from what i read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_I...ing_%28film%29 the participants used were angry for pretty much being taken advantage of by Livingston.

Did you know that an outrage ensued when Paris Is Burning failed to earn an Academy Award nomination for Best Documentary Feature that year.
Then, it went out of print suddenly. Geez, i wonder who did that? You know who controls the film industry, right?

Call your local video store and see if they have it or if they can get a copy of it. Make sure you ask for Paris is Burning by Jennie Livingston.
Ah, but don't fret, i found it online and i will watch it.

Just find the next part in the 'related videos'.

Don't forget to answer the questions i asked you, please.

Babe,
xoxo

[Guest]

Jezebel Yum

Geez, what's a t-girl to do – jump off a bridge, maybe?

Hi,

I saw a thread, in here, about Jezebel Yum and so i decided to poke around the net to see what i could come up with.

I've made some interesting discoveries.
Seeing as we are not allowed to post other tranny sites into tgirlforums, i just copied the posts from the two threads i saw about Jezebel Yum.



Jezeble Yum, by the way, was actually Jenna Rubi Horgan. Born as Joey Horgan.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Memori...62033913828452


I found this post on another tg forum, written by a member named,Firestorm 84. I corrected a few grammatical errors in the post because it was badly written.
“Jezebel Yum (R.I.P.)
You are aware of the fact that she committed suicide by jumping off the the 405 Freeway onto Hawthorne Blvd in Los Angeles, California?
Normally, I think the girls that stay off forums are the smart ones, however, in her case, I believe a forum such as this could have saved her life.
She suffered from depression. I can totally relate this time. I go into the deep myself. I know the feeling all to well where you feel no one cares about you and there is no rainbow at the end of the tunnel....”


Here is another post from a different forum, written by JJJ.
“I am an extended family member of Jenna. We did not grow up together, so we were not very close, we were 5 years apart. As a teenager he would visit my home, and as early as his teen years, it was very noticeable that this person did not feel loved and accepted. He was abandoned by both parents, but the family that raised him wasn't very supportive either. I had the priviledge of him living in my home for a couple of months around 2-3 years ago. This person had the biggest heart, she was very honest,she was fun. She cared a lot for those around her and felt she was completely alone in the world. I wish I would've stayed more in touch with her. She just wanted to be accepted. I'm sure that her family regrets a lot of things they said to her that remained embedded in her head. They never accepted her. I've been thinking a lot about her since i heard of her death...I'm sorry Jenna for not being there for you. I pray that you find your way may you rest in peace.”



Another post written by o m g, from the same forum as the comment above.
“Truth be told he really wasnt happy here on this earth. He was abbnded as a young child, there was NONE of his family there when he needed a shoulder to lean on, none of his family accepted him for what he had became (now all of a sudden he takes his life for the simple fact that he had NOBODY to run to with all his problems and now ALL OF A SUDDEN his family wants to feel so sorry for him and act like there so hurt like if it really matters to them that hes no longer here. He obviously did not have good relationships with women as "JOEY" so decided to turn into "JENNA" then did not have good relationships with men. long story short he was bond to kill himselve and nobody was there for him through out his life now hes died thanks to all his worthless piece of shit family and all you idiots wanna act hurt and act like if you guys really give a dammmnnn!!! HOW FUCKING LAME!!! “


From the same forum, written by a member called, Dave.
"So we were all sitting around and transsexual Jenna Horgan starts hitting on one of the straight guys that didnt know Horgan was really a man, so his friend calls out Jenna/Ruby/Jezebel, whatever he was calling himself that day, and they get into what was apparently another argument about Jenna lying to people about being a man and how he should just stick to porn and escorting and to stay out of "our" world. Jenna goes into one of her famous anger rages and starts fighting with EVERYONE and saying how he hates us even more than he hates his family. Then after a bit all of a sudden chills and says, you know what, your all right about me. I am a loser. I am not a girl. I am a man. I have sex with strangers for money and I do porn and steal from everyone to get what I want. I act like a bitch and nobody likes me because I have a bad attitude. Then she says, "I should just kill myself". Straight dude she was hitting on then yells out in front of everyone, "I think it's for the best" and everyone starts busting up. Jenna then throws a chair into the group and runs out the door yelling "Fuck you all!". And yes, we were all smoking meth including jenna but that had nothing to do with anything. That was the last we saw of him."



A post from Kyrstal, the mother of Jezebel's daughter, from the same forum as above.
“I would like to correct the story that was told, this and a few other websites mentioned in part what happened... First off it wasn't a woman who passed away it was a man, a transexual man who was very sad... He spent his whole life feeling like no one care about him or loved him, he finally was pushed to his limits that night... I find it very hurtful that people say such distasteful things about what happened as though it were a joke, he is my daughter's father, before he admitted being gay we were 18 when she was born, he was 24 years old when he died... I am sorry to those who had to see what happened, I too believe it was the wrong way to handle the situation... But me and my family would appreciate it if people didn't say anymore nasty things about his death... If not for me for his 6 year old daughter...
Thank you...”


Here is where she took her life. She jumped and was struck by a few fast moving cars. Some people in the forums made jokes about how the experience must have made her feel down and flattened. Discrimination even after death.

R.I.P.

[Guest]

Trans Inmate Sues for Reassignment Surgery

Posted on Advocate.com April 21, 2011
Trans Inmate Sues for Reassignment Surgery
By Advocate.com

A transgender inmate who says she has been repeatedly raped since her 2003 incarceration is asking a federal court in San Francisco for a state-funded gender-reassignment surgery so she can be transferred to a women's prison.
Lyralisa Stevens, 42, who was born male but now lives as a female, is serving 50 years to life in a California prison for the shotgun murder of a San Bernardino County woman following a dispute over clothes. The 5-foot-6 Stevens, who began her prison sentence with a feminized physique — silicon-enhanced breasts and hips — says she has been sexually assaulted in the all-male facility and subjected to constant harassment.
"The male inmate is not expecting to see breasts in the shower next to him," says Stevens, whose expert witnesses claim the surgery and transfer are the best way to protect the convicted murder from further abuse.
While the prison has been providing Stevens with female hormones since 2003, opposing counsel has argued that the state should only be required to provide “minimally adequate care,” not an operation that will cost taxpayers as much as $50,000.
"A prison is not required by law to give a prisoner medical care that is as good as he would receive if he were a free person, let alone an affluent free person," wrote attorney Steven J. Bechtold, as quoted by the Los Angeles Times.
According to California law, the state’s 162,000 prisoners are assigned to men's or women's institutions based on their gender, which is determined solely by the prisoner's genitals.

Reporting from Vacaville— Lyralisa Stevens, who was born male but lives as a female, is serving 50 years to life in a California prison for killing a San Bernardino County woman with a shotgun in a dispute over clothes.


Stevens is one of more than 300 inmates in the state prison system diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder, a psychiatric condition addressed in free society with hormone replacement therapy and, in some cases, sex reassignment surgery.

Prison officials have provided female hormones for Stevens since her incarceration in 2003. But now she is asking the 1st District Court of Appeal in San Francisco to require the state to pay for a sex-change operation.

Stevens, 42, and her expert witnesses say that surgery is medically necessary, and that removal of her penis and testicles and transfer to a women's prison are the best way to protect her from rape and abuse by male inmates.

As prison officials have struggled to address chronic overcrowding, the constant threat of gang violence and a health system that federal judges have equated with "cruel and unusual" punishment, they have also gone to court multiple times to answer allegations that they failed to properly treat and protect transgender inmates.

Judges have sided with transgender prisoners — who according to a UC Irvine study are 13 times more likely to suffer sexual assault than other inmates — on some significant cases. In 2009, the California Supreme Court ruled that an inmate could sue guards for failing to protect her from repeated rapes and beatings by her cellmate. In 1999, an appeals court ordered prison officials to provide hormone therapy to inmates who were already taking them when they arrived. The treatments cost about $1,000 a year per prisoner.

A ruling in Stevens' favor would make California the first place in the country required to provide reassignment surgery for an inmate, according to lawyers for the receiver appointed to oversee California's troubled prison health system. They argue that the state should be required to provide only "minimally adequate care," not sex-change operations that cost $15,000 to $50,000.

Stevens, who has a slight build — 5-foot-6 and about 115 pounds — and entered prison with silicon injections in her breasts and hips to feminize her physique, said in a court filing that she feels like she's under threat of sexual assault in the men's facility and wants the surgery, in part, so she'll be sent to a women's institution.

"The male inmate is not expecting to see breasts … in the shower next to him," Stevens wrote. The situation can lead to violent disputes among the men and sparks attacks against transgender inmates, who may have less upper body strength because of the hormone therapy, Stevens said.

In a court filing supporting Stevens' petition, psychotherapist Lin Fraser said she has "grave concerns" for Stevens' safety because she "had been put alone in cells all night long with men who threatened and abused her."

California law requires prison administrators to assign the state's nearly 162,000 inmates to men's or women's institutions based on "gender," which officials determine solely by a prisoner's genitals. Richard Masbruch, who tried multiple times to castrate himself while in a Texas prison and eventually succeeded, is in the California Institution for Women inChino. Masbruch, who goes by the name Sherri, was transferred from Texas to serve 40 years for a 1991 rape in Fresno.

While confronting complaints and lawsuits by transgender inmates challenging their housing assignments during the mid-2000s, the California prison system commissioned a study by UC Irvine sociologists to help them understand the small, uniquely vulnerable population. The study found that 59% of transgender inmates said they had been raped or otherwise sexually assaulted behind bars, compared with 4.4% of the general prison population, lead researcher Valerie Jenness told the state Senate Public Safety Committee.

Despite those numbers, 59% of transgender inmates said they did not want to move to a women's institution.

"The advantages of being in a men's prison include the pursuit of sex and the possibility of securing a male partner," Jenness said. "Concern about safety is not a main factor in predicting [housing] preferences."

Stevens declined to join a group of transgender inmates interviewed by The Times recently at the prison system's main medical facility in Vacaville. But six others — of the 30 to 50 transgender inmates housed there at any given time — spoke candidly about their lives in prison.

Thomas Strawn, 52, who uses the name Lisa and is serving a life sentence after a third-strike conviction for burglary, said she is in a committed relationship with the man in the next cell and would not want to move.

Thomas Strawn, a transgender inmate who goes by the name Lisa, applies eyeliner inside her cell. She says she is in a committed relationship with a man in the next cell and would not want to be transferred to a women's prison. (Brian van der Brug / Los Angeles Times)

"I stayed single for an entire year when I got here," Strawn said. "But now I got with somebody and I've been with him now two years."

Others, such as convicted killer David, or Bella, Birrell, 58, who said she had been raped in prison, would like to be transferred to a women's facility. "You don't have to worry about the constant harassment like you get from the men here," she said.

Only two of the six said they would be interested in a sex change operation if a court order compelled the state to pay the costs.

"I had made plans to try to get [the surgery] done before I committed the crime that I did," said Steve Alamillo, 39, who goes by Nikkas and is serving life for first-degree murder. "If the state can do that stuff, absolutely."

Willie Murphy, 47, who is also known as Mena and is serving life on a third-strike conviction for burglary, was among the majority, preferring to "keep what I got."

Surgery is where the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation draws the line.

"A prison is not required by law to give a prisoner medical care that is as good as he would receive if he were a free person, let alone an affluent free person," attorney Steven J. Bechtold, who represents the receiver, wrote in the state's response to Stevens' petition for the operation.

The prison system has lost on a similar point before. The state provides hormone therapy today because a federal court found in a 1999 case that failing to continue treatment for inmates who were on hormones before coming to prison amounted to cruel and unusual punishment.

"We regularly get questions about why we are treating these patients," said Dr. Joseph Bick, chief medical officer at Vacaville. "The bottom line is, not only is it appropriate, but it's mandated by federal courts."

Stevens, who has fathered three children, argues in her court case that the cocktail of estrogen and testosterone-blockers the state has provided since her incarceration in 2003 are no longer adequate to combat her emotional distress. Failing to provide surgery could increase her "risk of future self-harm," wrote Dr. Denise Taylor, a medical expert who filed a brief on Stevens' behalf.

Taylor also argued that leaving Stevens on estrogen therapy could lead to the reemergence of a benign tumor removed from her brain in 2005.

Bick, who filed a declaration with the court in January defending the state's position, said the previous tumor was not believed to be caused by estrogen therapy. He said Stevens' treatment in prison has been "adequate and successful."

Perhaps the biggest threat to Stevens' case is the state's budget crisis, in the view of several transgender inmates interviewed. They worried that a judge might be reluctant to rule in her favor with the state facing hard times.

"If I were out there, I wouldn't understand, especially if I was unemployed or trying to support a family," Birrell said.

"But if you could only go into our heads for a day or two to see what we go through internally," she said, "you would get a greater appreciation of how devastating it is to be a transgender individual locked up in a man's prison."

[email protected]
Copyright ? 2011, Los Angeles Times

[Guest]

Thanks Lexi. Perfect example of what we face.

Hi,

Here you go! THIS is what happens to us.

Would anyone like to tell me WHY this happens?
Couldn't because of the media?

See the convulsions? You people see your hockey players doing that and everyone is UP in arms about it.
Oh, Rant! Rant! Rant!
But when it happens to a t-girl, oh different story, she deserved it somehow, she caused it by the way she behaves.
This sh*t happens monthly, weekly and it just continues.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/...beating-640128

Good find, Lexi!
I am so VERY glad you created a thread for it so it doesn't get buried and lost in this thread. I had to include in here, though.

Babe,
xoxo

[Guest]

Update on the beating:

[Guest]

Good movie.

Hi Discovigilante,

Also I would recommend watching the film "Paris is Burning" (1990). A beautiful documentary about the creation of the drag ball and vogueing like what Madonna sang about).

Okay, i just watched Paris is Burning. It was entertaining, informative, VERY true, very real. Thanks for suggesting it.

Why did you recommend for me to watch this movie? Was there something specific you wanted to point out to me in regards to discrimination - a special message pertaining to this thread that you wanted me to see?

Babe,
xoxo

[discovigilante]

you're ticking me of

You asked many questions over the last few posts. Which ONE do you mean? Or would you like answers to all?

Milton Berle, Fred and Barney, the cat in Madagascar, etc. (your examples from entertainment) dressing up as a woman do not make them associated with a transgendered person. I will elaborate on that later.

When I read your responses I feel they are filled with a lot anger, frustration, maybe even sadness or more than that, maybe grief.

When you talk about all these pieces from the entertainment industry and when you respond to my posts, you describe them in harsh tones and angry wording. Your emotions are very much a part of how you present here.
This is what i see, it is not a judgment. Emotions are meant to be expressed. Please continue to do so.

What is bothering me right now is that I feel that I am just a thorn in your side because you want this thread to be your personal rant line. Is this a discussion or not?
What I think is the problem is that you don't take the time to recognize the influence your emotional state is having on your perspective towards these things you see and read.

Have you ever sat down to watch a movie with either high expectations or in a negative mood both because of things that had occurred before. Something that happened to you that made you feel that way?
All people approach things with attitudes and prejudices that define their experience of the event.
So, you get up from that movie and it did not meet your expectations or it was great but you found parts that you really disliked, both because of the attitude you brought with you.
This is why media does not have ENOUGH POWER TO SERVE ALONE as the driving force in creating prejudice that makes discrimination.
It is a part of the problem, but not the source of the problem. Humans are the source. We are the "senders" of the message. And we do not live equally. Some hold power while others live generations out of power. Media is just a tool, like a hammer, that serves the objectives of those who wield it.

If you truly wish to learn more about the power of the media. I suggest you begin by learning about the theory of hegemony.
Your display of inexhaustible searches for informative youtube vids is good. But every argument needs more diverse sources. The internet is like TV: full of information that can sway you one way or another. The way you stop that is by looking in other places for answers.

[Guest]

Ticked off?That's your fault - you don't answer the questions, and i keep asking them

You asked many questions over the last few posts. Which ONE do you mean? Or would you like answers to all?

Milton Berle, Fred and Barney, the cat in Madagascar, etc. (your examples from entertainment) dressing up as a woman do not make them associated with a transgendered person. I will elaborate on that later.

When I read your responses I feel they are filled with a lot anger, frustration, maybe even sadness or more than that, maybe grief.

When you talk about all these pieces from the entertainment industry and when you respond to my posts, you describe them in harsh tones and angry wording. Your emotions are very much a part of how you present here.
This is what i see, it is not a judgment. Emotions are meant to be expressed. Please continue to do so.

What is bothering me right now is that I feel that I am just a thorn in your side because you want this thread to be your personal rant line. Is this a discussion or not?
What I think is the problem is that you don't take the time to recognize the influence your emotional state is having on your perspective towards these things you see and read.

Have you ever sat down to watch a movie with either high expectations or in a negative mood both because of things that had occurred before. Something that happened to you that made you feel that way?
All people approach things with attitudes and prejudices that define their experience of the event.
So, you get up from that movie and it did not meet your expectations or it was great but you found parts that you really disliked, both because of the attitude you brought with you.
This is why media does not have ENOUGH POWER TO SERVE ALONE as the driving force in creating prejudice that makes discrimination.
It is a part of the problem, but not the source of the problem. Humans are the source. We are the "senders" of the message. And we do not live equally. Some hold power while others live generations out of power. Media is just a tool, like a hammer, that serves the objectives of those who wield it.

If you truly wish to learn more about the power of the media. I suggest you begin by learning about the theory of hegemony.
Your display of inexhaustible searches for informative youtube vids is good. But every argument needs more diverse sources. The internet is like TV: full of information that can sway you one way or another. The way you stop that is by looking in other places for answers.

I am a bit frustrated, yes, because you don't really answer my questions. And yes this is a discussion but you seem to pick and choose the questions that you answer. There are questions splattered all through this thread that you and greep just avoid like a plague and then you just press on with your opinions.Where is the discussion when you do that?

All the questions i've asked are all similar because i keep asking them and NO ONE answers them lol.
It seems to me that you are trying to be a thorn in my side. And that let be noticed by all - not me responding to your posts and in detail. So carry on, please. I ask a question and you don't answer. You ask more questions "Okay, got it."


What are we doing, playing fetch, here?
You do not answer me in detail, you pick and choose and omit questions that you can scoot around playing word tag with me.

It's a complicated thread with some pretty simple and basic questions, but it seems too complicated for someone who drops names as if they give you credit somehow, and you mention all your degrees. Please, impress me with how you can answer a question, instead.

And then you say, you are getting ticked off. LOL How could that be, i answer all your questions one by one. I dissect your posts to do that.

I guess the fact that you are not as smart as you might think or even claim to be is what is ticking you off. You don't even answer SIMPLE questions.

And for me to appear angry?...not at all. Just another one of your manipulations in this thread.
Go look at my silly face in my silly video of me blowing the recorder and see how i am. That's me, calm, cool, ready to answer a question, and i answer well.
You don't, really. You are too busy playing some sort a superiority game with me where you actually think you can ignore what i ask and simply ask more questions. Oh yea, you're so smart.

That's why i've asked you a few times already if you are paying attention.

Here some of the questions i have asked you and others. Do they get answered?...no.
You throw more questions at me, instead, and challenge the research i've done, here. It's laughable.





However, if you have read the whole thread and saw all the clips i presented, and you still feel the same way, please explain to me how if it's not the work of Hollywood, with their cute, little, furry, cross-dressing animals being treated badly by those around them when they are "read" or found out, then, why does mainstream society dislike transseuxals so much?...to the point where they get fired from jobs and are refused work, and worse.
It would be interesting to read your points. I would like to know, if you would like to share your views. Remember, i am talking about why society treats TS's so badly. What causes that behavior, you know? Where does it all stem from?




"You think TGs choose to be TGs?











When greep said this, i ask him to explain it.

...I dont believe your claim that 'Hollywood' is hurting TG people by showing in them a negative light...

...the way transgendered people conduct themselves in real life, influences and shapes peoples views of them way more than what we get from TV....

And in which ways do TSs conduct themselves in "real life" which influence and shape peoples' views of TSs?

Yea, must be this poor girl's fault. She must have done something wrong.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/...beating-640128

Transgenders appear to be murders, don't they?








SURE, it's comedy, and it's funny to look at but does it make it right what's being done there?













Post #139 has a few questions.










They only have to share the ?discrimination part?. Get it, now!?













What is the crux? Is it that the real life TGs don't share discrimination encouraged by TG lunatics/killers on television and in the movies?
Have you ever gotten all dressed up like a woman and seriously applied for a job?
Have you ever went to a trade school all dressed up like a woman, as an adult, and been harassed right out of there?











Geez, what's a t-girl to do ? jump off a bridge, maybe?












People become influenced BECAUSE of television, movies and cartoons. Why are you trying to debate this fact?












Television ads don't make people go out and buy things??














Oh i see, so all of these people say that television and movies don't influence what people think? Is that what i see you ?regurgitating? ?










Did you know that an outrage ensued when Paris Is Burning failed to earn an Academy Award nomination for Best Documentary Feature that year.
Then, it went out of print suddenly. Geez, i wonder who did that? You know who controls the film industry, right?








Why did you recommend for me to watch this movie? Was there something specific you wanted to point out to me in regards to discrimination - a special message pertaining to this thread that you wanted me to see?



So, can the discussion move forward? I would like to finally get to read what you can say about the questions i've "re-posted" just for you. I've even went out of my way to do that for you, to make it easier.

I know it's frustrating. Instead of playing games, just address the questions so this discussion can continue.

Babe,
xoxo

Dim wit.

Musical dim wit.

[greep]

Babe, I think people do answer your questions, You just don't like the answers.

Some of the videos you uploaded ARE real occurrences of discrimination against TG'ered people. But most of the videos, especially from movies and television are not cases of discrimination. They are negative portrayals of certain individuals, not instances of discrimination. You must understand EVERYBODY gets negatively portrayed by Hollywood from time to time -women, midgets, fat people, good looking people, business men, lawyers, Priests, cashiers etc. Under your faulty definition of discrimination, every imaginable group in society is currently being discriminated against by Hollywood.

You must prove with evidence of a 'backroom' campaign by the Movie studios executives to 'knowingly' discriminate against transgendered people.

You have not done that. Simply because you cant.

Also, just curious, what would be their motive?


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[Rockheart]

Babe, I think people do answer your questions, You just don't like the answers.

Babe some of the videos you uploaded ARE real occurrences of discrimination agoanst TG'ered people. But most of the videos, especially from movies and television are not cases of discrimination. They are negative portrayals of TG'ered individuals (in some of the clips), EVERYBODY gets negatively portrayed by Hollywood -women, midgets, fat people, good looking people, business men, lawyers, etc. Under your faulty notion of discrimination, every imaginable group in society has been discriminated by Hollywood.

You must prove with evidence of a 'back room' campaign by the Movie studios to discriminate.

You have not done that.

Also, What would be their motive? Just curious.


.

I agree with this.
You are choosing every situation where men dress as women anywhere as discrimination and that people have been pre-meditating this for years.

Milton Berle and Monty Python are not discriminatory against transgenders, they just follow the long standing tradition of men dressing as women for drama and comedy.

The history of Drama is men dressing as women.
In the first Greek and Roman Theatres there were no women actors. The men played all the roles.
The first stagings of most of Shakespeares plays were done by only men actors i all roles. Look it up.
If anything it is discrimination against women.

The fact is they are representing all facets of society.
In your books,
If they show fat people they are discriminating against fat people.
If they don't show fat people they are also discriminating.

In your books no one can do right unless they only portray average straight people being totally normal and boring.
Well this is fucking boring and no one wants to see it.

You are throwing alot out there really fast and not accepting others thoughts very easily here.

I agree some have been too insistent but you have to discuss issues not dictate them.

Also not sure why you are discussing other threads all in this thread instead of discussing the other threads on the thread itself.
It is very confusing.

[greep]

I agree with this.
You are choosing every situation where men dress as women anywhere as discrimination and that people have been pre-meditating this for years.

Milton Berle and Monty Python are not discriminatory against transgenders, they just follow the long standing tradition of men dressing as women for drama and comedy.

The history of Drama is men dressing as women.
In the first Greek and Roman Theatres there were no women actors. The men played all the roles.
The first stagings of most of Shakespeares plays were done by only men actors i all roles. Look it up.
If anything it is discrimination against women.

The fact is they are representing all facets of society.
In your books,
If they show fat people they are discriminating against fat people.
If they don't show fat people they are also discriminating.

In your books no one can do right unless they only portray average straight people being totally normal and boring.
Well this is fucking boring and no one wants to see it.

You are throwing alot out there really fast and not accepting others thoughts very easily here.

I agree some have been too insistent but you have to discuss issues not dictate them.

Also not sure why you are discussing other threads all in this thread instead of discussing the other threads on the thread itself.
It is very confusing.

The problem in this thread Crag, and I'm not being sarcastic here, is I don't think Babe fully understands what discrimination means and how it is manifested in the media.

Heres some evidence: Look at the title of this thread:

Ladies: don't you think discrimination should be banned?

As 'most' of us know it is banned under the Canadian Charter of Rights. And under the US Bill of Rights (I believe)

One would think she would at least know this, since she seems to be an expert on the topic (as well as many others,.)

Of course, just because something is banned doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but you got to have some sliver of proof or evidence to back up your claims.

.

[Guest]

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