escort bottoming...

[bb420]

It's obvious...

Real men have the insecure need to sexually dominate and control another person to prove their masculinity.

[TSFantasia]

So if they top a guy they are gays. Aren't the bottoms assuming women role?
Aren't you genitally a cis-man?



The obvious is that in some countries around the world you will be considered a psycopath for desiring to be a trans woman. This is what happens when people start judging each other! If the law in Canada granted you dignity and respect, then make sure that you uphold the same standards to others especially when you belong to an oppressed group to start with.

I'm not judging or insulting I am supportive of all those in the LGBTQI community, which any man engaged with transsexuals is apart of whether they like to admit or identify themselves that way or not. I'm not supportive of guys engaging in bi and gay activities and then calling those activities straight hetero activities and trying to redefine sexuality definitions to soothe their own conscience. And yes it is against the law to be transsexual or engage in homosexual activities in many countries punishable by imprisonment or worse. I'm not suggesting anyone is doing anything wrong whether they choose to top or bottom.

[bb420]

I'm not supportive of guys engaging in bi and gay activities and then calling those activities straight hetero activities and trying to redefine sexuality definitions to soothe their own conscience.

I'm confused.

Don't t-girls do the same thing? Always seem to be looking for "straight" top men.
A guy who tops a t-girl is just as gay as a guy who bottoms for one.

[TSFantasia]

I'm confused.

Don't t-girls do the same thing? Always seem to be looking for "straight" top men.
A guy who tops a t-girl is just as gay as a guy who bottoms for one.

Definitely bisexual also yes. And I know I'm trans, bisexual and gay its all good no need to hide who you are.

[vancouverman]

And that is one reason gay men are gay because anal sex just feels so damn good to them

gay people are gay long before they try anal sex for the first time, or even know what it is. (i really hope you are not trying to open up the debate that people are not born gay but somehow learn it later in life when evil gay people recruit them as Christians seem to keep thinking). sexual orientation is not developed because of a certain sexual act. guys who like their girlfriends to put fingers up their assholes are not gay men. You really need to get out a bit more.

this is a separate issue from all the "I am straight" crowd who love sucking cocks. someone in denial of their attraction to male features has nothing to do with this particular discussion. I personally can not run around saying I am 100% straight while at the same time I take a penis up my ass, but you sure get men in this hobby saying that a lot. That is their own burden to carry and hopefully one day they can remove the shame and just be happy with who they are.

people have to put labels on one another; we need to get away from that. sometimes a person just doesn't fit with one standard label and that is ok! And some providers on this site like to get everything put in a nice box with a bow on it. Why? We are all animals who just want to fuck! Enjoy it.

[vancouverman]

It's obvious...

Real men have the insecure need to sexually dominate and control another person to prove their masculinity.

I live near rogers arena and last night was UFC show. The amount of these "look at me alpha male with my hot girlfriend I don't treat very well" is quite a sight. I find that crowd to be a bastion of insecurity.

[cameeindos]

Point blank?? Guys bottoming for t-girls or GG with strap-ons is a less manly action,yes. It is a role reversal in which the man is taking the female role and position of being dominated and penetrated and the t-girl/GG with a strap-on is taking the role of dominating and penetrating. The usual language in these type of sessions is referring to the man in feminine terms "make you my bitch" , "fuck your tight ass pussy" etc., etc.
If I heard you moaning like a woman I would assume that is the fantasy that is running through your head! While you may be a manly man's man in your everyday life in this scenario you are playing out the feminine role. It is what it is!

It is what what is? You don't even have a consistent opinion, one moment it's "oh, whatever floats your boat!" and then it's "lololol....gays!" lol..

And "make me your bitch" isn't something I'd say if I can ever help it. I don't really believe in masculine or feminine roles in sexual activity....but meh...if a TS escort judges me for moaning, it's not as if I may see her again nor need to care what she thinks... and yes, you can read clients' minds, when in reality if they're moaning they're probably just expressing how good it feels in their arse/prostate and not some domination fantasy.. lol...

Look, we all know your views on men who bottom....yes, you think it's gay, yes you say this on practically every thread on the topic....and thus everybody here all knows your views on the issue...unless you have new insights on the matter continue with your broken record thinking...it will just be read and then dismissed by most...

[sunshine]

My opinion

So if they top a guy they are gays. Aren't the bottoms assuming women role?
Aren't you genitally a cis-man?



The obvious is that in some countries around the world you will be considered a psycopath for desiring to be a trans woman. This is what happens when people start judging each other! If the law in Canada granted you dignity and respect, then make sure that you uphold the same standards to others especially when you belong to an oppressed group to start with.

Wow - there is some weird thinking going on in this thread. Jane makes a lot of sense and I think she sees through the words to the truth beneath.

Gender identity has nothing to do with sexual preferences. Some guys like fucking, some like being fucked, some like both, and some like other things. It doesn't have anything to do with their gender identity. Some guys are very feminine, some are very masculine, and some are somewhere in between. But whichever way they are, they can like anything on the above list.

As far as the domination stuff goes, only a small number of my clients are into that. I'm not a dominatrix though so I'm not marketing to guys in those circles. Guys can and do enjoy sex with me in a variety of ways.

Let's not go backwards. Trans-people had to fight hard to be able to express their gender identity without getting stoned by the crowd on the street corner. For the ones who choose to work as escorts, it is nonsense to condemn men who want to enjoy this sexual activity or that sexual activity. There's no judgement if you believe in extending to others the same privileges that are extended to you.

To answer the original question posed in the thread, if a guy moans while being fucked, I take that to mean I am doing a good job and my guy is happy and relaxed enough to enjoy being with me. What's wrong with that? Nothing. If a guy is quiet, that's fine too if that's how he normally is when getting fucked. As long as the guy is relaxed and enjoying what I'm doing, I know I'm on the right track.

Calling clients gay because they are bottoms is ridiculous and callous. It is probably a good way to ensure that client will not come back to see you. I'm sure my clients don't identify as gay so I don't call them that. The greatest majority of my clients identify as straight. I'm OK with that. It's really their self-image. Again, it has nothing to do with what they enjoy sexually.

Sunshine

[Alexis]

gay people are gay long before they try anal sex for the first time, or even know what it is. (i really hope you are not trying to open up the debate that people are not born gay but somehow learn it later in life when evil gay people recruit them as Christians seem to keep thinking). sexual orientation is not developed because of a certain sexual act. guys who like their girlfriends to put fingers up their assholes are not gay men. You really need to get out a bit more.

this is a separate issue from all the "I am straight" crowd who love sucking cocks. someone in denial of their attraction to male features has nothing to do with this particular discussion. I personally can not run around saying I am 100% straight while at the same time I take a penis up my ass, but you sure get men in this hobby saying that a lot. That is their own burden to carry and hopefully one day they can remove the shame and just be happy with who they are.

people have to put labels on one another; we need to get away from that. sometimes a person just doesn't fit with one standard label and that is ok! And some providers on this site like to get everything put in a nice box with a bow on it. Why? We are all animals who just want to fuck! Enjoy it.

Good point there..

Simply enjoying anal penetration doesn't make one gay..

What if a female likes anal? What does that make her? What if a female wants and does penetrate a male? What are they then?

I love getting my ass fucked.. hell gangbang it please.. but Tomorrow I'm going to fuck some tight little pussy again cuz I like fucking women..

Labels are for packaging not people.. people are people and people have preferences.. nothing more..

It's simply enjoying the sensations of your body and someone else..

Many men can never bring themselves to trying a real dick.. society's stigma is upon them and they have a mountain of guilt on them..

Others only do stuff in the closet.. some might see a dominatrix and get pegged.. the brave ones see a tgirl..

Then some are so bold as to be bi and enjoy the guy/guy thing.. which personally does nothing for me..

Yes you can be 100% straight and enjoy anal penetration.. it's not even that kinky really..

[TSFantasia]

It is what what is? You don't even have a consistent opinion, one moment it's "oh, whatever floats your boat!" and then it's "lololol....gays!" lol..

And "make me your bitch" isn't something I'd say if I can ever help it. I don't really believe in masculine or feminine roles in sexual activity....but meh...if a TS escort judges me for moaning, it's not as if I may see her again nor need to care what she thinks... and yes, you can read clients' minds, when in reality if they're moaning they're probably just expressing how good it feels in their arse/prostate and not some domination fantasy.. lol...

Look, we all know your views on men who bottom....yes, you think it's gay, yes you say this on practically every thread on the topic....and thus everybody here all knows your views on the issue...unless you have new insights on the matter continue with your broken record thinking...it will just be read and then dismissed by most...

No I'm pretty consistent in what I've said. 1) Guys can purchase whatever kind of "t-girl/shemale" experience they want from those willing to provide those services. 2) Any man engaged sexually with transsexuals is in the bicurious/bisexual realm being in denial and saying your straight hetero only is ludicrous! 3) I've never said men who bottom only ARE gay don't put words in my mouth. 4) Bottom guys are as useless to the majority of trans women in the real world as gay men are to any cis-woman as they want to be fucked and women want to be fucked major conflict of interest there. 5) Sexual stimulation is a combination of sensory and visual stimuli and while most of you insist YOU would never fuck another guy because you are NOT gay/bisexual you actually think t-girls must have this orientation to be turned on by fucking you.

And as long as you or other posters try to make it sound like all guys interested in t-girls want to bottom or are REALLY missing out on something if they don't. And make offensive remarks such as "Why else would a guy see a t-girl?" As if trans women are not attractive on any other level than the fact they have a cock to suck and be fucked by. Then I will continue to imply that bottom only guys are latent homosexuals and more than likely actively bisexual as I sincerely doubt that guys with those kind of desires keep their "alternate" sexual activities to their infrequent paid escort appointments . Neither statement may be true but equally offensive I'm sure.

[Mark Hermetic]

aaahhhh, intelligence !!!!

Wow - there is some weird thinking going on in this thread. Jane makes a lot of sense and I think she sees through the words to the truth beneath.

Gender identity has nothing to do with sexual preferences. Some guys like fucking, some like being fucked, some like both, and some like other things. It doesn't have anything to do with their gender identity. Some guys are very feminine, some are very masculine, and some are somewhere in between. But whichever way they are, they can like anything on the above list.


To answer the original question posed in the thread, if a guy moans while being fucked, I take that to mean I am doing a good job and my guy is happy and relaxed enough to enjoy being with me. What's wrong with that? Nothing. If a guy is quiet, that's fine too if that's how he normally is when getting fucked. As long as the guy is relaxed and enjoying what I'm doing, I know I'm on the right track.

Calling clients gay because they are bottoms is ridiculous and callous. It is probably a good way to ensure that client will not come back to see you. I'm sure my clients don't identify as gay so I don't call them that. The greatest majority of my clients identify as straight. I'm OK with that. It's really their self-image. Again, it has nothing to do with what they enjoy sexually.

Sunshine

AAAHHHhhhhh I love when gender Identity gets brought up, well put sunshine, well put indeed. Yes, I agree gender identity has absolutely nothing to do with sexual preference in essence, but the two are intimately linked. Let's all have a good dose of Judith Butler, once again ( I hope everyone has read some of her or they should consider themselves ill informed in current debates about gender... and she did her main work in the early nineties). Butler maintains, in a nutshell, that gender is a social construct, that it is performative and thus non-existent. We perform the gender role that has been ideologically handed to us. biological sex is based on the organs that one has at birth.. but even this becomes problematic.. what happen with females who have un-descended testicles... or other human beings that have un-identifiable genitalia.... A huge issue to contend with is the power that language has in identifying and organizing out thoughts.

Butler?s Gender Trouble (1990) puts forth an immense array of theoretical platforms, but in particular her attention to gender (and indeed identity) as a performative action builds off of Simone de Beauvoir?s ( everyone knows her... right? Sartre's lover? existentialism? okay good) claim that ?sex is understood to be the invariant, anatomically distinct, and factic aspects of the ? body, whereas gender is the cultural meaning and form that that body acquires? distinct and separate from biological sex: ?One is not born, but rather, becomes a woman?(Butler ?Sex and Gender in Simone de Beauvoir's Second Sex? 1986). Butler claims that gender is the performative effect of reiterative acts; that is, acts that are repeated and thus ?congeal over time to produce the appearance of a substance, of a natural sort of being? (Butler, ?Gender Trouble 1990? 33). Furthermore, Butler builds upon the feminist theory of Monique Wittig when she talks about language; that ?language has the power to create the ?socially real? through the locutionary acts of speaking subjects?(Butler ?Gender Trouble 2007? 156).

Butler goes on to explain that language ?is a set of acts, repeated over time, that produce reality-effects that are eventually misperceived as ?facts??[and that]? the repeated practise of naming sexual difference has created this appearance of natural division?(Butler ?Gender Trouble 2007? 157). It seems, then, that the terms ?man? and ?woman? are in fact some kind of political or cultural category, and not natural facts. Rather than these being the expressions of some sort of innate gender identity, gestures and acts which are learned and repeated over time create an illusion of a stable gender. Acts, Butler states:

are performative in the sense that the essence or identity that they otherwise purport to express are fabrications manufactured and sustained through corporeal signs and discursive means. That the gendered body is performative suggests that it has no ontological status apart from the various acts which constitute its reality. (Butler, ?Gender Trouble 1990? 136)

So... Gender identification is a decidedly tricky thing. In one camp, we can abandon altogether the labelling of anything and be free and happy and post-structuralist and post-modernist and nothing matters tra la la. or we can categorize and succumb to the tendencies left over form the Enlightenment period that says everything must be separate and distinguishable, and in our current debate, that if one is a bottom he is homosexual and if he is a topper he might only be and we can place him in this category... on and on..... Is inclusivity a good thing? I mean the term Trans* ( note the * ) is now being trumpeted to include everyone under the Transgender umbrella and then some... but if someone identifies as, lets say gender queer , that person might take great offense at being labelled Trans* so what is one to do ? not everyone who identifies as something non-cisnormative wants to be part of some gender revolution..

After all that I have no answers to give... but neither does modern scholarship. Butler's work is what brought Queer theory and Transgender theory to life!!! lets keep giving them air so as to breath new theory on us all....

Oh, and I'm almost strictly a topper, being a bottom doesn't do it for me, I don't like the feeling... but I'm extraordinarily attracted to TransWomen.... How do I Identify ? as a man who likes to be the top when having intimate relations with beautiful Transwomen because he doesn't like the feel of being the bottom... that's how ! bah... I hate categories... stupid Enlightenment thinks it was so damn smart. oh.. see citations below if you want to know my sources for the ramble above ... it's allot of Judith Butler lol

Cheers,

-Mark

works cited


Butler, Judith. Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity. New York: Routledge, 1990
Print

Butler, Judith. Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity. New York: Routledge, 2007
Print

Butler, Judith. ?Sex and Gender in Simone de Beauvoir's Second Sex? Yale French Studies - Simone de
Beauvoir: Witness to a Century. 72.1 (1986). 35-49. Web

[bottomguyusually]

It's obvious...

Real men have the insecure need to sexually dominate and control another person to prove their masculinity.

No, real men are comfortable in their own skin no matter what they choose to do they still know in their mind and heart they are a real man, they are just open minded and man enough to enjoy what ever feels good to them.

[Mugsammy]

Quite frankly...NOT!

I will take a TG in my mouth to pleasure her. I will top her...my fav position is me on my back and her sitting on top riding me, I will stroke her simultaneously. I cannot picture or understand a man, taking one in the rear...big or small...and enjoying it! I just can't!!! And NO...I WON'T TRY IT EITHER!

[rider014]

Exactly

No, real men are comfortable in their own skin no matter what they choose to do they still know in their mind and heart they are a real man, they are just open minded and man enough to enjoy what ever feels good to them.

Well put bottom guy, to me, the old outdated version of a " real man " is has gone the way of the dodo. A real man used to be the image of the cowboy selling marlboros, oops, broke back mountain changed that narrow view. A real man used to be the big strapping pro athlete.... Well, the hinges on those closet doors have been broken off. So, what is the image construed by society now ? The business man, the family man, etc etc etc. Truth is, it shouldn't matter as a man is a man is a man. What we choose to do for our pleasure doesn't define what a real man is! Moan, drool, sing a lullaby, who cares, it sure as hell doesn't make anyone less of a man by how they react to pleasurable situations.

[Alexis]

No, real men are comfortable in their own skin no matter what they choose to do they still know in their mind and heart they are a real man, they are just open minded and man enough to enjoy what ever feels good to them.

Exactly.. GO back in time.. before the church of god.. the term Greek wasn't fucking a girl in the bum.. it was what men did..

Real men were exactly that.. real men and not ashamed of anything as who they were was not predefined by society as it is today..

TS women used to be priestesses in temples.. when a man thought another man was beautiful it wasn't considered a sin..

I will take a TG in my mouth to pleasure her. I will top her...my fav position is me on my back and her sitting on top riding me, I will stroke her simultaneously. I cannot picture or understand a man, taking one in the rear...big or small...and enjoying it! I just can't!!! And NO...I WON'T TRY IT EITHER!

Sounds like you're scared you might like it.. lol..

This is a perfect example of mental programming.. You have throughout your years been inundated by the thought that it's wrong to be gay and wrong to enjoy being penetrated as a man. This type of social programming is all part and parcel from the church of the one god..

If you had been raised in a world without the fear of god you would be totally different and not programmed the way you are today..

Also the fault of this is not with those who have been programmed but with society itself.. Thankfully tho things are becoming more open and accepting as fewer and fewer of the masses have faith in the church or what it teaches..

The church of god is Islam, Catholicism, Christianity & Judaism.. All 4 of these sects of the church teach hate, promote division, condemn us to live in a world separated by sectarianism and serve those who profit from it.. They all condemn gays, lesbians and trans.. This will continue as long as these sects exists..

There is nothing wrong with enjoying anal penetration.. weather you're male, female, gay, bi, trans or whatever..