escort bottoming...

[TSFantasia]

Well put bottom guy, to me, the old outdated version of a " real man " is has gone the way of the dodo. A real man used to be the image of the cowboy selling marlboros, oops, broke back mountain changed that narrow view. A real man used to be the big strapping pro athlete.... Well, the hinges on those closet doors have been broken off. So, what is the image construed by society now ? The business man, the family man, etc etc etc. Truth is, it shouldn't matter as a man is a man is a man. What we choose to do for our pleasure doesn't define what a real man is! Moan, drool, sing a lullaby, who cares, it sure as hell doesn't make anyone less of a man by how they react to pleasurable situations.

True story a man is a man whether he be straight, bi, or gay but there is a difference between being a masculine man or an effeminate man. Put it in this context go pick up hot chicks from the bar (yeah I know back in the day ..lol) and then when you get them in the sack hand them a strap on dildo and insist they fuck you up the ass and then moan, whine, and whimper and see how many 2nd dates you get with women. Nevermind that let me know how many run out the door! . And as I said earlier just because a guy does bottom & moan like a woman while getting fucked up the ass during an escort appt doesn't mean he is not a manly man in his everyday life... just not in that context.

[Mugsammy]

No fear! No desire!

Sounds like you're scared you might like it.. lol..

This is a perfect example of mental programming.. You have throughout your years been inundated by the thought that it's wrong to be gay and wrong to enjoy being penetrated as a man. This type of social programming is all part and parcel from the church of the one god..

If you had been raised in a world without the fear of god you would be totally different and not programmed the way you are today..

Also the fault of this is not with those who have been programmed but with society itself.. Thankfully tho things are becoming more open and accepting as fewer and fewer of the masses have faith in the church or what it teaches..

The church of god is Islam, Catholicism, Christianity & Judaism.. All 4 of these sects of the church teach hate, promote division, condemn us to live in a world separated by sectarianism and serve those who profit from it.. They all condemn gays, lesbians and trans.. This will continue as long as these sects exists..

There is nothing wrong with enjoying anal penetration.. weather you're male, female, gay, bi, trans or whatever..[/QUOTE] I'm not afraid, programmed, nor am I judgemental to those men that like it (I think?) it just doesn't appeal to me. As for religion and the church...I agree with you. However from my perspective, I'm much more tolerant and accepting of gays, lesbians and trans. When will these sects cease to exist? I don't believe it will be anytime soon! All we can do as a human race is learn acceptance that people are and can be different. I'm ok with it...I just don't want a cock up my ass! LMAO!!

[TSFantasia]

Exactly.. GO back in time.. before the church of god.. the term Greek wasn't fucking a girl in the bum.. it was what men did..

Real men were exactly that.. real men and not ashamed of anything as who they were was not predefined by society as it is today..

TS women used to be priestesses in temples.. when a man thought another man was beautiful it wasn't considered a sin..



Sounds like you're scared you might like it.. lol..

This is a perfect example of mental programming.. You have throughout your years been inundated by the thought that it's wrong to be gay and wrong to enjoy being penetrated as a man. This type of social programming is all part and parcel from the church of the one god..

If you had been raised in a world without the fear of god you would be totally different and not programmed the way you are today..

Also the fault of this is not with those who have been programmed but with society itself.. Thankfully tho things are becoming more open and accepting as fewer and fewer of the masses have faith in the church or what it teaches..

The church of god is Islam, Catholicism, Christianity & Judaism.. All 4 of these sects of the church teach hate, promote division, condemn us to live in a world separated by sectarianism and serve those who profit from it.. They all condemn gays, lesbians and trans.. This will continue as long as these sects exists..

There is nothing wrong with enjoying anal penetration.. weather you're male, female, gay, bi, trans or whatever..

Well whole problem with the social programming, gender norms programming, etc. argument is then why transition? Why do you need to have breasts? Why do you need to have feminine hair, clothing, or makeup? If there are no norms then just stay as you were and call yourself Alexis and tell everyone your a woman not conforming to social programming or gender norm brain washing? And as a trans woman if all the men attracted to you are because they want you to top them where does that leave you when that is gone? Of course for those of you who market yourselves as TOPs and have the endowment that those men like the more bottoms the merrier for you and yes try to convert more. My problem with that is that I did not start my transition to stay stuck in the freak/fetish zone of guys thinking ok to see a "tranny/t-girl" for some freaky fun but they are not "real women" so no good for anything besides that. Accepting that there are no social gender norms means no one is masculine, effeminate, or feminine. Fact is there are gender norms that have been molded by a lot of factors besides Christianity or other religious beliefs.

[TSFantasia]

Oh and Cameeindos your Welcome

Your thread has 1500+ views and 47 replies would have died with 100 views and 3 replies if not for me! Controversy and alternate views
brings discussion and debate. This forum is so boring when everyone says exactly the same thing.

[Mugsammy]

Well whole problem with the social programming, gender norms programming, etc. argument is then why transition? Why do you need to have breasts? Why do you need to have feminine hair, clothing, or makeup? If there are no norms then just stay as you were and call yourself Alexis and tell everyone your a woman not conforming to social programming or gender norm brain washing? And as a trans woman if all the men attracted to you are because they want you to top them where does that leave you when that is gone? Of course for those of you who market yourselves as TOPs and have the endowment that those men like the more bottoms the merrier for you and yes try to convert more. My problem with that is that I did not start my transition to stay stuck in the freak/fetish zone of guys thinking ok to see a "tranny/t-girl" for some freaky fun but they are not "real women" so no good for anything besides that. Accepting that there are no social gender norms means no one is masculine, effeminate, or feminine. Fact is there are gender norms that have been molded by a lot of factors besides Christianity or other religious beliefs.

FantaSia...i like how you think!!

[Alexis]

Well whole problem with the social programming, gender norms programming, etc. argument is then why transition? Why do you need to have breasts? Why do you need to have feminine hair, clothing, or makeup? If there are no norms then just stay as you were and call yourself Alexis and tell everyone your a woman not conforming to social programming or gender norm brain washing? And as a trans woman if all the men attracted to you are because they want you to top them where does that leave you when that is gone? Of course for those of you who market yourselves as TOPs and have the endowment that those men like the more bottoms the merrier for you and yes try to convert more. My problem with that is that I did not start my transition to stay stuck in the freak/fetish zone of guys thinking ok to see a "tranny/t-girl" for some freaky fun but they are not "real women" so no good for anything besides that. Accepting that there are no social gender norms means no one is masculine, effeminate, or feminine. Fact is there are gender norms that have been molded by a lot of factors besides Christianity or other religious beliefs.

Why transition..

Well first off I prefer my female appearance, how I look how I feel etc.. it just feels right.. I "choose" to appear feminine..

Please remember that since I'm not passable in the eyes of society I have to put up with a whole shitload of intolerant assholes on a very regular basis..

Also I do not market myself as a top..

I market as "versatile" and profess that my preference is to get fucked by men and fuck women as I am bisexual and enjoy both sexes..

I'm certainly not the one who fucked up society into the divisions it has today..

You see I live with no fear, I am true to myself and this is the real me.. passable or not..

This November when I go get some facial work done.. it will be a facelift.. no feminization surgery..

I have concerns about bone contouring.. It compromises the structural integrity of your skull..

I don't really think I need it.. I like being me and I'm happy with how I look.. just want to look younger.. for me..

I do not conform to society.. it must conform to me..

[Mugsammy]

Yes!!!

Why transition..

Well first off I prefer my female appearance, how I look how I feel etc.. it just feels right.. I "choose" to appear feminine..

Please remember that since I'm not passable in the eyes of society I have to put up with a whole shitload of intolerant assholes on a very regular basis..

Also I do not market myself as a top..

I market as "versatile" and profess that my preference is to get fucked by men and fuck women as I am bisexual and enjoy both sexes..

I'm certainly not the one who fucked up society into the divisions it has today..

You see I live with no fear, I am true to myself and this is the real me.. passable or not..

This November when I go get some facial work done.. it will be a facelift.. no feminization surgery..

I have concerns about bone contouring.. It compromises the structural integrity of your skull..

I don't really think I need it.. I like being me and I'm happy with how I look.. just want to look younger.. for me..

I do not conform to society.. it must conform to me..

you go girl! I respect more of your comments here than most I've read in any thread by anybody, so far! Good for you! If only more people had that attitude. Whatever makes you feel good.

[cameeindos]

No I'm pretty consistent in what I've said. 1) Guys can purchase whatever kind of "t-girl/shemale" experience they want from those willing to provide those services. 2) Any man engaged sexually with transsexuals is in the bicurious/bisexual realm being in denial and saying your straight hetero only is ludicrous! 3) I've never said men who bottom only ARE gay don't put words in my mouth. 4) Bottom guys are as useless to the majority of trans women in the real world as gay men are to any cis-woman as they want to be fucked and women want to be fucked major conflict of interest there. 5) Sexual stimulation is a combination of sensory and visual stimuli and while most of you insist YOU would never fuck another guy because you are NOT gay/bisexual you actually think t-girls must have this orientation to be turned on by fucking you.

And as long as you or other posters try to make it sound like all guys interested in t-girls want to bottom or are REALLY missing out on something if they don't. And make offensive remarks such as "Why else would a guy see a t-girl?" As if trans women are not attractive on any other level than the fact they have a cock to suck and be fucked by. Then I will continue to imply that bottom only guys are latent homosexuals and more than likely actively bisexual as I sincerely doubt that guys with those kind of desires keep their "alternate" sexual activities to their infrequent paid escort appointments . Neither statement may be true but equally offensive I'm sure.

lol... Well yeah, this has been a good discussion by all. Was being a bit tongue in cheek by starting it, knowing the views of clients who bottom, but I've never said (if so, I stand corrected) that a guy should only see a TS to get fucked. If he likes to top only for whatever reason, so be it. Men top and bottom for a variety of reasons, kind of like how with GGs men like doggy, woman on top, missionary, spoons, anal sex, and all for unique reasons. it is as is, humans are diverse.. My reasoning for bottoming is not the same as other men, and topping or whatever...but I don't mean any offence, just stating my point.

[TSFantasia]

lol... Well yeah, this has been a good discussion by all. Was being a bit tongue in cheek by starting it, knowing the views of clients who bottom, but I've never said (if so, I stand corrected) that a guy should only see a TS to get fucked. If he likes to top only for whatever reason, so be it. Men top and bottom for a variety of reasons, kind of like how with GGs men like doggy, woman on top, missionary, spoons, anal sex, and all for unique reasons. it is as is, humans are diverse.. My reasoning for bottoming is not the same as other men, and topping or whatever...but I don't mean any offence, just stating my point.

Yes that's the "bottom" line (pardon the pun) is we are all wired differently men, women & t-girls. We all have different turn-ons/offs and erogenous zones and "no fly" zones. At $200-300/hr a guy should get exactly what he wants and enjoy it to the max, even if that comes with screaming, moaning, whatever.

I've just had to come to the realization that my "wiring" is as a bottom only. In the context of escorting I wish I could enjoy topping more as I would definitely make more money at it. But such is life we are who we are !

[Mugsammy]

100% Top!

Yes that's the "bottom" line (pardon the pun) is we are all wired differently men, women & t-girls. We all have different turn-ons/offs and erogenous zones and "no fly" zones. At $200-300/hr a guy should get exactly what he wants and enjoy it to the max, even if that comes with screaming, moaning, whatever.

I've just had to come to the realization that my "wiring" is as a bottom only. In the context of escorting I wish I could enjoy topping more as I would definitely make more money at it. But such is life we are who we are !

Im so pleased to be 100% top! You are so gorgeous I wouldn't want it any other way!

[TSFantasia]

Im so pleased to be 100% top! You are so gorgeous I wouldn't want it any other way!

Thanks Hun but with your luck we will NEVER be in the same place at the same time! LOL I just read your thread too funny but unfortunate you missed out on so many great girls

[Mugsammy]

Regina

Thanks Hun but with your luck we will NEVER be in the same place at the same time! LOL I just read your thread too funny but unfortunate you missed out on so many great girls

yes, it's enough to bring a tear to a real mans eyes! I checked you out and I see I'll have to go to Regina to see you. That's not totally out of reach lol

[xoxJanexox]

Well whole problem with the social programming, gender norms programming, etc. argument is then why transition? Why do you need to have breasts? Why do you need to have feminine hair, clothing, or makeup? If there are no norms then just stay as you were and call yourself Alexis and tell everyone your a woman not conforming to social programming or gender norm brain washing? And as a trans woman if all the men attracted to you are because they want you to top them where does that leave you when that is gone? Of course for those of you who market yourselves as TOPs and have the endowment that those men like the more bottoms the merrier for you and yes try to convert more. My problem with that is that I did not start my transition to stay stuck in the freak/fetish zone of guys thinking ok to see a "tranny/t-girl" for some freaky fun but they are not "real women" so no good for anything besides that. Accepting that there are no social gender norms means no one is masculine, effeminate, or feminine. Fact is there are gender norms that have been molded by a lot of factors besides Christianity or other religious beliefs.

Unfortunately you are stuck in your own world, somewhere in the stone age! Do you recognize that there are "real women" (i.e genetic women) who don't enjoy receptive penetrative sex at all! Have you ever heard about this? What do we call them? Mutant and proud? Perverts? Freaks?! They are not normal since they aren't assuming the womanhood position (i.e. bottoming).

The most disturbing thing I have ever seen is people who were not born as women yet they dictate with precision what real womanhood is all about (Ass up in the air). Speak with a feminist woman and she will consider your whole views about women to be degrading to females in general.

[TSFantasia]

Unfortunately you are stuck in your own world, somewhere in the stone age! Do you recognize that there are "real women" (i.e genetic women) who don't enjoy receptive penetrative sex at all! Have you ever heard about this? What do we call them? Mutant and proud? Perverts? Freaks?! They are not normal since they aren't assuming the womanhood position (i.e. bottoming).

The most disturbing thing I have ever seen is people who were not born as women yet they dictate with precision what real womanhood is all about (Ass up in the air). Speak with a feminist woman and she will consider your whole views about women to be degrading to females in general.

Well interesting take that women with vaginas,who mostly enjoy penetrative sex (and yes that is the general consensus, while you always talk about exceptions) are in the stone age. I have no idea what your "wiring" is as you have always skirted the question so I make my own assumptions. So your a transgender ?? who enjoys topping guys good for you. Being a woman is a total package deal and only small part to do with sex.

And as I'm a trans woman I was born with a female gender identity within a biologically male sexed body. Which is why trans women transition as we are not comfortable with the wrong genitals attached to us or our bodies shaped by testosterone rather than estrogens.
We transition to become apart of the female part of society "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". We are not out to redefine women but to emulate them to the best of our abilities. So of course we are going follow the "general rule" and not the "exception to every rule".

But always nice of you to remind me that I was born "a man" just as all the interviewers do with trans women Janet Mock, Carmen Carrerra, Laverne Cox, etc. etc. in the typically ignorant of trans women self perceptions way. So we are all just crazy men who wanna be women is that right? This is why I just don't talk to you as you would be thrown out of any trans women's groups for making such incredibly insensitive statements. But hey its a free world so support your position all you like. And I'm still not sure what that is?

Perceptions such as "freaks, perverts, mutants", etc come from societal views and the general view of most men wanting just sex hook ups with t-girls/trannies/shemale.

[xoxJanexox]

Well interesting take that women with vaginas,who mostly enjoy penetrative sex (and yes that is the general consensus, while you always talk about exceptions) are in the stone age. I have no idea what your "wiring" is as you have always skirted the question so I make my own assumptions. So your a transgender ?? who enjoys topping guys good for you. Being a woman is a total package deal and only small part to do with sex.

And as I'm a trans woman I was born with a female gender identity within a biologically male sexed body. Which is why trans women transition as we are not comfortable with the wrong genitals attached to us or our bodies shaped by testosterone rather than estrogens.
We transition to become apart of the female part of society "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". We are not out to redefine women but to emulate them to the best of our abilities. So of course we are going follow the "general rule" and not the "exception to every rule".

But always nice of you to remind me that I was born "a man" just as all the interviewers do with trans women Janet Mock, Carmen Carrerra, Laverne Cox, etc. etc. in the typically ignorant of trans women self perceptions way. So we are all just crazy men who wanna be women is that right? This is why I just don't talk to you as you would be thrown out of any trans women's groups for making such incredibly insensitive statements. But hey its a free world so support your position all you like. And I'm still not sure what that is?

Perceptions such as "freaks, perverts, mutants", etc come from societal views and the general view of most men wanting just sex hook ups with t-girls/trannies/shemale.

Very simple, if you seek acceptance for who you are then you should accept others for who they are.

You start making rules and exceptions to the rules, then please remember that as a trans person some people will argue that you are the exception of the exception of the exception of the general rule!