Ladies, don't you think discrimination should be banned?

[Guest]

Wow. Unbelievable.

Hi discovigilante,

Are yu ready? Here we goooooooo....hang on!

This topic of discussion is very broad at the moment.

Hmm. And here i am thinking, all this time, that i was writing about discrimination against transgender people.
Obviously, you can't grasp the concept of “little stuff” such as sexual discrimination. I can clearly see how you wish to broaden the scope so that you may confuse the issues giving you ample opportunities to do pli?s and Fouett? rond de jambe en tournant with words that sound intelligent but really show your lack of comprehension of my written words.

We have stretched between issues of transgender representation; to questions of use for entertainment; to the authority of media, particularly, film and television, in culture; to comparisons of transgender to other identity markers, e.g. race, ethnicity, the physical impaired, and victims of disease. So perhaps we can try to focus a little more on some
specifics.

You can't grasp what i am talking about? There have been no stretching of issues here on my part. Discrimination is what i am talking about. What are you talking about?

I have gathered by what you have said Babe that the problem is that TV creates and maintains negative perspectives towards transgendered people. Is that right?

You think that's what i am talking about? You sure?
I said Hollywood controls it all. That would include television, movies, cartoons, whatever Hollywood
is involved with, which is basically anything to do with moving-pictures for profit.

Now, from that I see that many diverse topics must be considered.

You see wrong. Clean your glasses or sober up. You are bringing up the subject of “diver topics” after starting your post by trying to introduce the idea that i had brought up these “divers topics”.
Again, I am discussing discrimination. To be more specific, I am discussing how the media discriminates against transgenders.

Firstly, the actual power TV has over a human beings understanding of their self and their world. This would require a person to fully analyze the depth of components that are a part of TV. There are many.
That is why, today, Communication Studies departments exist in nearly all universities. Of which I am a graduate.

Components that are part of a Television? Electronic components...wha? “Watchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?”
Please, name off the names of some the components that are part of a television that have the power over human beings' understanding of their selves and their world? I mean, if “there are many”?
A graduate of Communication Studies should be able to answer that.

Secondly, In discussing the representations of transgendered, we must consider multiple perspectives that go into a representation, be it face to face, through media, or individual conception. As a necessity this would lead us into the third consideration of how being transgendered serves as an identity marker like skin colour, religion, and physical impairment.

Lemme see, now...hmmm, well, blacks are born with dark skin, curly hair etc. Can't help that, they are BORN THAT WAY.
Physically challenged people have visible signs of being,...well, physically challenged. Can't change that in many cases because they were born that way.
Guess wha?...transgenders are born that way, too.
Or do you think we just choose to be transgender?

In discussion of transgender as an identity marker, like all other identity markers, you inevitably go into a discussion of taxonomy(placing things into groups by category). And this leads you to question what transgender means.

No way, sweety! It, maybe, leaves you wondering.
You really have a degree? How much did you pay for it? Were they on sale? Did i miss another sale?

We can compare a crossdresser to a transsexual, but perhaps we can not categorize them together.

We don't compare cross-dressers to transsexuals. They are completely different mentally.
All transsexuals are cross-dressers but not all cross-dressers are transsexuals. Both fit under the transgender umbrella for the most part.

Again, for these reasons there are Cultural Studies departments arising in many universities. Of which I am also a graduate.

Based on how you argue a point or even comprehend the clear points i've presented, i am obliged to tell you to go back for a refresher course. Or hold your degree up to the light to see if it's real.

What needs to be seen to properly continue this conversation is for clarification of goals and ways to get there.

What needs to be seen to properly continue this conversation is for you, my dear, to re-read the thread and all the comments slowly because you are so off track, here. It's almost laughable.
They actually gave you a degree?
I clarified the purpose of this thread with practically every post i've made.
To make others aware of what i feel has happened to our transsexual image in mainstream society and how it got to where it is, is my objective.
With your degrees, all i can see you doing is writing flowery, educated paragraphs while still NOT understanding the points i've already made.
You've already missed the whole concept and reasoning of including other people with disabilities and people of different cultures who have all been discriminated against in the past. But not now. People are no longer allowed to do that to them, BUT here's the clincher, it's still okay for transgenders to be discriminated against on national television. That sends a nasty message.

Babe, what is your answer to the problem?

And finally, with your degrees, you ask me what the solution is?
I think i've touched on that topic, too.




(RRRRRIIIIIIIINNNGGGGG!!!)
Ooops!!


There goes the school bell. Class dismissed!
Don't forget to re-read this whole thread. There might be a pop quiz.


Be ready,
Babe,
xoxo

[Guest]

Hmm. How we conduct ourselves...interesting.

...the way transgendered people conduct themselves in real life, influences and shapes peoples views of them way more than what we get from TV.

Anyone else agree with me on this?

Hi greep,

And in which ways do TSs conduct themselves in "real life" which influence and shape peoples' views of TSs?
Please list as many things as you can.
Then, we'll discuss all that you don't understand.

Babe,
xoxo

[greep]

Hi Babe.

Just got off the phone with Saul Rubenstein the head of Hollywood. He told me there is no concerted or hidden efforts to discriminate and stereotype transgender's in the US movie industry.

There, now do you believe me. Please Babe, trust me on this one, you are looking for something that is not there.

If you look at something long enough, you will find what you want to see. I think that is the case here.

If you still don't believe me, and are convinced of an ongoing campaign to Discriminate, why don't you get a lawyer and file a class action lawsuit.

See how far you get.

[dom r]

I agree that transgender people should not be made fun of because like you said that is no different than making fun of other genders, fat people, whites, blacks or the mentally challenged. But many shemales appear to look 100% like normal women and they're not really made fun of ever. Most of what you're describing is the media and tv shows making fun of men in female clothing and make up(Flip Wilson,Fred and Barney) because as the reasons I said, men do not look pretty or senusous in a dress only women/shemales do, so to some people it may seem amusing for a masculine man to wear female clothing. But I do see your point that if a man or boy chooses to wear female clothing they should not be made fun of either because that would no different than if people made fun of other people for wearing other types of clothing. But then again, everyone is entitled to freedom of expression.

And my freedom of expression is, this female riding that broomstick with the moon in the background is frucking HOT!!!! A picture of her lustful face only is enough to make me cummm.

[Guest]

[unreachableone]

Great speech, Amanda.
Great video, Babe.

[Guest]

Trust you?

Hi Babe.

Just got off the phone with Saul Rubenstein the head of Hollywood. He told me there is no concerted or hidden efforts to discriminate and stereotype transgender's in the US movie industry.

There, now do you believe me. Please Babe, trust me on this one, you are looking for something that is not there.

Trust YOU on this one? Why should i trust you?
Why are you so concerned for this conversation to stop?
And why are you trying to speak for all the girls by saying that none of them agree with me?

You pretend to have called some Saul Rubinstein to do what...to make me believe you?
Greep, you actually believed that liar?
I am starting to think that you, greep, enjoy discriminating against trannys. Otherwise, why defend those who do, by telling the board that i am dreaming this whole thing up because of a pretend phone call you didn't make?

Not very nice behavior. Why would you want me to stop discussing how the media discriminates against TGs, greep?

Babe,
xoxo

[Guest]

Now, pay attention, please. I'm going to say it ONE more time.

For the slow learners,

The Flintstones clip in this thread shows how Fred and Barney "sneak" around "pretending" to be their own wives in order to fraudulently win a cooking contest.
I'm not saying that people in the cartoon made fun of them.
I am saying they were portrayed as frauds.
Many TSs have been at one one time in their lives accused of being men who were only "pretending" to be women.

The writers could have had Fred and Barney hire two actresses to pretend to be their wives, they've done that before.
The hotel manager in the clip accepts them as women, albeit ugly women, and that's okay because not all women are beautiful.

So, in this clip, they show how cross-dressers are frauds. That sends a message to any one who later sees a TS on bus or wherever, and taps his friend on the shoulder and says, "Remember the Flintstones bit when they dressed up like women? Well, check this one out!"
That's where it should not be allowed anymore. It encourages discrimination to show TSs or CDs as frauds.

It's like racial profiling of blacks or Hispanics or whoever. It shouldn't be allowed.

Babe,
xoxo

[greep]

For the slow learners,

The Flintstones clip in this thread shows how Fred and Barney "sneak" around "pretending" to be their own wives in order to fraudulently win a cooking contest.
I'm not saying that people in the cartoon made fun of them.
I am saying they were portrayed as frauds.
Many TSs have been at one one time in their lives accused of being men who were only "pretending" to be women.

The writers could have had Fred and Barney hire two actresses to pretend to be their wives, they've done that before.
The hotel manager in the clip accepts them as women, abeit ugly women, and that's okay because not all women are beautiful.

So, in this clip, they show how cross-dressers are frauds. That sends a message to any one who later sees a TS on bus or wherever, and taps his friend on the shoulder and says, "Remember the Flintstones bit when they dressed up like women? Well, check this one one!"
That's where it should not be allowed anymore. It encourages discrimination to show TSs or CDs and frauds.

It's like racial profiling of blacks or Hispanics or whoever. It shouldn't be allowed.

Babe, you cant see the forest through the trees, thats the problem here.

See, in the previous (50 year old) example, it's FRED and BARNEY that were exposed as frauds - NOT any Transgendered person or character. This is a big distinction you fail too see.

If I remember correctly Fred and Barney were never tranny's. And the story line had nothing to with the CD, TG, TV or TG community in any way.

But, Again, I guess if you look hard enough you will see what you want to see. For which you are a pro at.

I think you have to educate yourself about what real discrimination is. Like not being able to drink from a fountain because of the color of your skin, or being turned down for a job because you too old, or earning less money at your job because your a female.

That's discrimination. Me watching an and old clip of Barney wearing a wig does not bring upon discrimination towards you IN ANY WAY.

And dont reply with your stupid 'subconscious messages' argument. Because in the previous clip, there was no subconscious message- Its a Flintstone episode!

[greep]

I want to clarify something, I truly believe Transgendered people often have to face real discrimination. Every bit as serious and damaging as in the examples I provided above.

People can be very cruel, and I'm sure TG people see this very often. I cant imagine the courage it takes to come out, transition, and lead a life of a TG full time.

I just disagree with Babes assertion that Hollywood is out to get TG people. They're not. In fact I think its a ridiculous notion.

I wish other girls would chime in on this discussion.

Actually I think they have; with their indifference.

.

[Guest]

Greep, You want other girls to chime in to tell me that i am doing what...bothering you?

If you don't like the thread, greep, i mean, if you can't deal with it, why bother trying? What's your point in here, anyway?
Insulting me, won't make you look any smarter.

If you don't like what i am saying, greep, don't read me. No loss for me.

[greep]

Babe, it's all your's....

Sorry if I'm frustrating you, but someone has to be the voice of reason around here.

You seem to have an inability to go point, counter-point, as I debunked your Flintstones example. I thought you would provide me a counter point, but after seeing your last post, you didn't (or couldn't), so I feel I'm beating a dead horse here.

Obviously u cant handle me posting in this thread, so I think I've made my point, and I'm going to move on..

[Guest]

Hey little baby,

Having a grown-up conversation doesn't mean that you disagree for the sake of disagreeing just to continue a silly dialogue - one in which i prove to you, over and over again, and you respond with this, "I don't get it Babe, can you explain it again?" routine.
And then when i do, you say what i say is stupid?!

Gag me with a spoon, why don't you?! Or better, still use your dick (if you have one).

I will admit that i have not seen that whole Flintstones episode, so i'm not 100% sure how it ends. From what i see in that clip, though, is they are portrayed as tricksters. And that, right there, to me is a misrepresentation of men who wear womens' clothes. That's enough RIGHT HERE.
The kids who watched that cartoon went back to school after lunch-break with a subconscious message in their heads that men who dress up in ladies' clothes do so to trick people. That is the message.
That's why so many legit TSs are harassed, because they are accused of pretending to be a woman.
The Flintstones was played in countless countries, too.
If you refuse to see that, that is not my problem.

You don't even mention the other clips though, don't you? You base your whole opinion on the whole topic of discrimination on ONE Flintstones clip and then you try to act like you're being serious when you post in here.
What about the other clips?...the Happy Days clip?...the lady on the news?...Silence of the Lambs?..the Get Smart clip? You can't see any connection at all?

This thread was not for the purpose of arguing or debating with me, greep. I am showing something that is right there. And you say, it's not there.

Let me show you another Flintstones cartoon. This one is in its entirety and it also has Fred cross-dressing. Of course, it's the same brainwashing technique being used, ie: Fred trying to sneak into the 'ladies day' baseball game.

I disagree with it because...just imagine this, in a movie today, in 2011, if we saw a person using black-face makeup to look like a black man, and the opposite of black people would be white people, and in the movie the whites commented on how ugly the black person was...THAT would be called racist in today's world. Putting on the black-face makeup alone, is considered racist.
Fred is referred to as an ugly woman often in the cartoon. Doesn't matter if Fred is a real TS or a man in a dress. Not all trannys are sexy sex goddesses - wake up!
Some trannys are pretty ugly and do look like a man in a dress, it's unfortunate, but it's true sometimes. It's not a good reason to insult them, though, is it? You keep it to yourself and do something else, right?
Isn't that what you do on the street, greep, and you see someone ugly? You don't say a word, do you?

Well, in the Flintstones cartoon, here, they are insulting Fred (behind Fred's back) to someone, Barney, and they don't know if it's a tranny or a man or whatever. So they are showing children to talk behind someone's back, and discrimination.
THAT is wrong to do in cartoons that kids see and grow up with. It's discrimination.
You can't see that?

And just to show you how you TWIST around what i say, I never said that Hollywood is out to get all the trannys or whatever it was you said. You twist what i say around and that's why i question your interest in this thread.

I am not asking you if you agree that the clips i show here contain discrimination. I AM TELLING you that they contain discrimination. So what is your point for you to TELL ME that i am wrong, and these cartoons are harmless?

You're acting like the 1950's KKK police sheriff in some hick town, telling some visiting newspaper reporters, "Nope, ain't no blacks dying in our town."
I have NO IDEA why you are trying to say that Hollywood has not discriminated against TGs in the past and in the present on TV and in the movies. You make it sound as though i say, that's all Hollywood does is attack CDs and TSs. I never said that. And you use THAT to get support from others to go against me.

I'm showing it all to you, greep, and you are saying, "Nope, you're wrong. Girls, agree with me. All the girls must disagree because they don't join the thread."
WHAT kind of CRAP is that?? Maybe you should ask some t-girls who escort, why they do THAT, greep? Why are they escorting, greep?

And by the way, you never did answer my question when you said that TSs behavior reveals to everyone how they really are more than movies do - something to that effect. I am still waiting to read your list, greep. Stand behind the comment you've made.
I stand behind all my comments.
Can't you?

[Guest]

Overall, Babe, I think your concerns are are coming from an honest place, and have some merit, But, the way transgendered people conduct themselves in real life, influences and shapes peoples views of them way more than what we get from TV.

Hi greep,

And in which ways do TSs conduct themselves in "real life" which influence and shape peoples views of TSs?
Please list as many things as you can.
Then, we'll discuss all that you don't understand.

Babe,
xoxo

Well?

[greep]

The kids who watched that cartoon went back to school after lunch-break with a subconscious message in their heads that men who dress up in ladies' clothes do so to trick people. That is the message.

This is a typical 'Babe-ism' , You just couldn't stay away from the 'subconscious messages' stuff could you, lol. Just because you get tricked by subconscious messages, doesn't mean everyone else does.

Anyways, Your wrong. The little kids watched Fred and Barney, (not a TG) dress up as women to try and win contest. YOUR MAKING TOO BIG A LEAP here. It was just a disguise, Babe. They were dressed up as women not tranny's!!!!! How come women aren't complaining about that negative portrayal?

Sorry, no message of discrimination, or negative stereo types of TG's in that show. NONE!

Ill say it again, If you look hard enough you will find what your looking for.

All you've done is cherry pick through 60 years of cinema and have come up with a bunch of disparate Youtube clips spanning decades, of men in drag. You have presented NO evidence of an organized, concerted effort on the part of "Hollywood' to stereotype or discriminate against the transgendered community. NONE! ZERO!

Get over it, accept it and stop reading into things so much. Dont you have better things to do with your time.