Update on Anti-Prostitution Laws

[Shyla Wild]

A court ruling for supervised-injection sites has scored a victory for all service providers. A court ruled that closing these clinics, would violated addicts' basic rights to life and security. These are similar rights that are taken away from service providers due to Canada's Anti-Prostitution laws.

http://www.canada.com/news/Insite+ruling+could+affect+anti+prostitution+laws/5519058/story.html

Since a lot of people have asked about this topic and the present ruling here it is. Presently Prostitution is in a "Test Period/Phase" (AKA legal) in Ontario pending the Courts ruling

[sunshine]

Not the problem in my opinion

That's great that the ruling may be used to support future attempts to strike down the prostitution laws. However, in my opinion, the effort is not likely to succeed because the fundamental problem when using "logic" to challenge the unjust laws is that you run up against religion and antiquated opinions. Why religious groups are even heard when dealing with these cases is beyond understanding.

The fight against these laws will be hard won and only after many do battle with irrational people.

Just my opinion.

Sunshine

[toban]

Don't get your hopes up!

I agree with both Shyla's and Sunshine's take on this situation. I feel as Shyla does that the resolution of the current Insite matter brings some welcome attention to the prostitution debate but I have to also agree with Sunshine that I believe it highly unlikely that much, if anything positive at all regarding prostitution will follow from the process.

As I see it, the main reason for the lack of action will be that Canada is currently being governed by a right leaning government, led by one Stephen Harper. I am neither a religious nor a political person but I have been around long enough to be aware of the origins of the current Conservative party. Just look at the current "get tough on crime" legislation that is proposed by them. Right-wing governments with their religious pasts will do no favours for prostitution.

The founders of the mother partys which gave birth to our governing party today were in fact rather freakishly religious right-wing nuts or as is said today, just plain "wingnuts"!

A little history:

Few today may be aware of the 1930's Bible-thumping premier of Alberta, known as "Bible Bill" William Aberhart, the founder of the Social Credit Party. :-http://www.aberhartfoundation.ca/Pag...#BibleHourDocs

Aberhart was followed in turn by Premier E.C. Manning who was known for his "Back to The Bible Hour" radio show. :- http://archivesalberta.org/2006exhibit/ucal1.htm

E.C.Manning's son Preston then followed in 1987 with the Reform Party of Canada which morphed into the Alliance Party which then was swallowed by the current Conservative Party of Canada.

Don't get your hopes up!

[Rockheart]

But it what it all boils down to in Canada is, taxpayers have to foot the bill for every person that falls off their chair.

We just keep adding groups and groups of people who we subsidize to no end.

Part of the problem with Canada is so many people get everything on a Silver Platter.
If you are slightest bit down trodden or minority, all you have to do is cry and the government will fund you in some way or another.

Soup kitchens, food banks, general shelters, work programs and these are ok to fund with tax dollars.
Throwing money at every problem and person that cannot exercise self control is dumb.

There is the health issues but seriously if you can handle drugs and still maintain a decent life, then do all the drugs you want.
If drugs are fucking you up and cause you to be a derralict,
then I will pay for you to get clean but why should I pay for your drugs and for you to do nothing all day.

I should not have to pay for this BS.
If you can't lead a decent life on drugs then you should be rehabilitated.

[dom r]

THERE IS TRULY HYPOCRISY within the law that finds prostitution to be illegal because in almost all marriages between men and women, women prostitute themselves to a man. He focks her then he pays all the bills, house, car, etc so she can live there after giving him sex. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY the same as prostitution except for the government legally allowing this by giving them a marriage license. So married women have a license to be prostitutes, why can't single women or shemales have that same right? Why? Because the people and government who write the laws are prejudice and want to enforce their own personel beliefs down everyone's throat. We are not the government's slaves, we should be free to make our own choices.

[Bawb]

THERE IS TRULY HYPOCRISY within the law that finds prostitution to be illegal because in almost all marriages between men and women, women prostitute themselves to a man. He focks her then he pays all the bills, house, car, etc so she can live there after giving him sex. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY the same as prostitution except for the government legally allowing this by giving them a marriage license. So married women have a license to be prostitutes, why can't single women or shemales have that same right? Why? Because the people and government who write the laws are prejudice and want to enforce their own personel beliefs down everyone's throat. We are not the government's slaves, we should be free to make our own choices.

prostitution is legal, and the conservatives cannot take away a person's right to earn a living, that's why there is a movement to criminalize the buyers of sex. it's based on the swedish model
don't worry, it'll fail

[Rockheart]

prostitution is legal, and the conservatives cannot take away a person's right to earn a living, that's why there is a movement to criminalize the buyers of sex. it's based on the swedish model
don't worry, it'll fail

Using this drug injection case as a basis for a case for prostitution is a waste of time.
When one gets overturned so will the other one, most likely.

Like I said, if this evolves me paying for addicts to get high, I draw the line.
Sex is a natural body function, however sticking a heroin filled needle in your arm is not.

If the cops stopped worrying about marjiuana in both Canada and the USA,
They could easily wipe out the trafficking of the real problem drugs like opiates and cocaine.

As it is they would rather throw everyone in jail for pot, based on Steven Harpers new laws coming.
However heroin users can sit around and have a club to go to?
Give me a break.

A sex club with sex workers would be cool, compared to a club for heroin addicts.

There is certainly no need for those people to be on the streets.
The same amount of money for these injection sites could give these people food and place to stay.
The could get really sick from detox, but they could get really dead from heroin.
I just don't see the thinking.

Our priorities are fucked up in Canada.
Let us have our weed and hookers,
but crack down on hard drugs and help addicts get better, don't help them get high.

[Shyla Wild]

It's not just prostitution. There are laws in place that puts many of our loved ones at risk. For example, there is a law that states that anyone that receives income from an escort will face charges. This was a law aimed at pimps. Unfortunately, our Boyfriends, Parents, and Siblings often receive money from us service providers. They can be and have been charged in the past.

I agree with Crag that Canada is handout central, and I also have a problem paying for others problems. But remember that the only reason that case in being brought up, is because it was proved that it was worse to close these drug clinics. Prostitution happens everywhere in Canada, we just want things to be safer for us. In fact, legalization would mean less court cases, less arrests, and less tax payer dollars invested and wasted on a problem that doesn't really exist.

Prostitution is the oldest professional, with the least amount of rights.

A pornstar is no different from an escort. She is paid for sex, and they film the act. So they commit a crime, film it, and get away with it. Whatever bullshit Larry Flint sold to congress was exactly that...Bullshit.

[dom r]

prostitution is legal, and the conservatives cannot take away a person's right to earn a living, that's why there is a movement to criminalize the buyers of sex. it's based on the swedish model
don't worry, it'll fail

THAT WOULD BE QUITE AN EVIL committed by our government or law makers if that ever happened if they ever became a gender biased type of government where they favor guilty women and set them free but only condemn the man. Judges and juries are already gender biased where they very often protect women who do crimes but not the men who do the same or lesser crimes, lets hope the government doesn't follow or did they already in other circumstances?

It seems like the government or law makers want a cut in the prostitute's sales by going after,fining and condemning the men but they set the most guilty free which are the women because it is their body that they are selling to a large number of men. Although i'm all for prostitution and my rightous anger is NOT AT ALL aimed at prostitutes because theres nothing wrong with selling a sexual service and NO ONE should be arrested and fined, the ones who are wrong are the government or law makers for they are the corrupted ones if they ever made this extremely unfair and gender biased law based on hatred against the man legal. If the government wish to help then why don't they invent a home aids testing kit where prostitutes can test themselves as well as their clients to find the results in minutes. FOR FUC SAKES that would be the solution to the entire problem but no the government is only good at arresting and having the men pay the fines so they get a cut in the sales instead of helping.

SORRY TO BE SO FORWARD but I only speak the truth.

[Rockheart]

It's not just prostitution. There are laws in place that puts many of our loved ones at risk. For example, there is a law that states that anyone that receives income from an escort will face charges. This was a law aimed at pimps. Unfortunately, our Boyfriends, Parents, and Siblings often receive money from us service providers. They can be and have been charged in the past.

I agree with Crag that Canada is handout central, and I also have a problem paying for others problems. But remember that the only reason that case in being brought up, is because it was proved that it was worse to close these drug clinics. Prostitution happens everywhere in Canada, we just want things to be safer for us. In fact, legalization would mean less court cases, less arrests, and less tax payer dollars invested and wasted on a problem that doesn't really exist.

Prostitution is the oldest professional, with the least amount of rights.

A pornstar is no different from an escort. She is paid for sex, and they film the act. So they commit a crime, film it, and get away with it. Whatever bullshit Larry Flint sold to congress was exactly that...Bullshit.

I think Larry Flint convinced them it was a cash cow for the government.
The internet was pioneered by the US government but perfected by porn.

Only problem with fully regulating prostitution and marjiuana is then it will become taxed and overly regulated.
Nobody really wants that, however if I can go out to a club a legally smoke drink and fuck, why not.

I just don't see the need to patronize addicts.
It's not what's really good for them.

[toban]

THAT WOULD BE QUITE AN EVIL committed by our government or law makers if that ever happened if they ever became a gender biased type of government where they favor guilty women and set them free but only condemn the man. Judges and juries are already gender biased where they very often protect women who do crimes but not the men who do the same or lesser crimes, lets hope the government doesn't follow or did they already in other circumstances?

Thats like holding people who buy drugs guilty,fining them only and then condemning them by sending them to jail or prison but they allow the most guilty which would be the drug dealers to walk free. It seems like the government or law makers want a cut in the prostitute's sales by going after,fining and condemning the men but they set the most guilty free which are the women because it is their body that they are selling to a large number of men. Although my rightous anger is NOT AT ALL aimed at prostitutes because theres nothing wrong with selling a sexual service, the ones who are wrong are the government or law makers for they are the corrupted ones if they ever made this extremely unfair and gender biased law based on hatred against the man legal. If the government wish to help then why don't they invent a home aids testing kit where prostitutes can test themselves as well as their clients to find the results in minutes. FOR FUC SAKES that would be the solution to the entire problem but no the government is only good at condemning one gender which is the man instead of helping both genders, or I should say 3 genders if its a shemale. Yup thats why the good ole USA is still in Iraq. The government hasn't finished their job yet at killing men instead of finding a better solution like PREVENTION and PROTECTION.

SORRY TO BE SO FORWARD but I only speak the truth.

Hey domr what in the heck are you saying here? You keep suggesting that the women are the guilty ones here, (I've outlined some of your statements above in red) while this thread is all about acknowledgement of the idea that there is nothing about prostitution to be guilty about at all. Perhaps your choice of wording did not convey your real intention to support the author the thread because it is the hope of many here that this service (prostitution) be legalized and so therefore neither the provider nor the client be subject to legal consequences of any kind because of it.

For heavens sake, in Biblical times there were actually "temple prostitutes" who actually worked in the temple and whose income from that service was used for the benefit of the temple! I find it curious how the present day church overlooks the thousands of benevolent biblical references to prostitutes (harlots as they were more generally known then) and the fact that they were used by the church and generally embraced by the so-called Christ.

The present day churches have duped the masses and paricularly the polititians into believing just the opposite, claiming that this service (prostitution) is harmful to the state and the person, when it is not!

I willingly admit and accept that there are harmful aspects that must be addressed in relation to this service just as any other service or profession. Protection must be present so that no person is forced to offer themselves nor should anyone profit from forcing another person to offer themselves to others. This part is already in place re: pimping etc.

[Rockheart]

The church condoning prostitutes is where everything went wrong for sex, most likely.

Now many women seem to be either professionals or prostitutes.
These days it is some how considered wrong to be a wife and mother.
When did we make becoming a mother wrong?

After all what is sex all about anyway?
Sure it is pleasurable, but that is not real purpose of sex.

If it turns out that sex becomes only a recreational activity, then where will we be?
Our species will become extinct.

Women who want to just be like men and so many men really want to be like women.

What ever happened to plain old sex for love and procreation.

Prostitiutes think they have love with their boyfriends
but what kind of relationship can anyone have when their mate is fucking men for money all day.
I am not sure what a boyfriend that puts up with this can survive.
In the end he is really just there for the sex and money.

In the end prostitution may seem like easy money and a viable profession.
Really people choose it for the money and the freedom of not having a boss.

Well it is a very short lived profession which leaves an older sex worker hoping to find a daddy to take them all away from it.
However by this time they are tainted and have little choice the mate they can find.
The fact they have not invested anything into themselves over the years means they have no options.

Thinking your cock or your pussy makes you someone special, well that is flawed thinking.
Everyone has one, and everyone can have sex.
Thinking you are somehow special because people want to pay to touch your genitals, isn't right thinking.

A young person looking at prostition as a life long profession should think twice.
It should only be a means to and end, working to get through school or out of a tight spot.
Becoming a full time pro may be fun when you are young, but it may become a weight around your neck if you don't get out of it before you become fully dependant on it.
What happens when you are fully dependant on something that will fade away as you get older.

Letting everyone thinks safe injection sites are good is not right, what message does this send to kids.
That it is ok to be a junkie and society will take care of you.
This is a wrong message, just like letting them think prostitution is a viable profession.
The fact is that anyone can be a junkie and anyone can be a prostitute.
Strive for something more than the basic.

[sunshine]

Alberta getting ready for the change?

I'm just speculating here. Edmonton is leading the way in changing their bylaws. The city wants to clamp down even more on the industry. Here is a link to an article I found:
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Ed...332/story.html

I realize that this is not directly related to the federal case. However, the federal law underpins the bylaws in the sense that the federal law permits cities to enact bylaws to regulate the industry from the perspective of being an "escort". If the federal law is struck down, there would be little reason for girls to call themselves "escorts". Edmonton is creating stricter guidelines. I've heard that Calgary will soon follow suit. Many smaller Alberta municipalities have already enacted bylaws. There is a sense in Alberta that they would rather abolish the industry. Since that can't be done, they enact bylaws to regulate it.

In a broader sense, I'm trying to paint a picture to illustrate that so called "conservatives" ignore the historical evidence when it comes to the industry. This is mixed in with religious fervour which also ignores the facts.

I don't think it will be easy to vanquish this attitude. I don't think we'll see it happen for many years, if ever.

I support the effort of those who would use logic to challenge these biased and dangerous laws. However, I don't think logic will prevail. It doesn't prevail in most other areas of life does it? At least not a logic that is applied to the preservation of our rights as human beings. If logic prevails it is the sort of logic that deals with keeping us in shackles for the sake of profit and the personal advantage of the wealthy.

Sunshine

[dom r]

PLEASE READ WHAT Bawb said-

prostitution is legal, and the conservatives cannot take away a person's right to earn a living, that's why there is a movement to criminalize the buyers of sex. it's based on the swedish model
don't worry, it'll fail

Hey domr what in the heck are you saying here? You keep suggesting that the women are the guilty ones here, (I've outlined some of your statements above in red) while this thread is all about acknowledgement of the idea that there is nothing about prostitution to be guilty about at all. Perhaps your choice of wording did not convey your real intention to support the author the thread because it is the hope of many here that this service (prostitution) be legalized and so therefore neither the provider nor the client be subject to legal consequences of any kind because of it.

YES OF COURSE, NEITHER the provider of a sexual service or the client should be prosecuted but I THINK YOU MISUNDERSTOOD what I meant. Its in regards to a possible law that when a man is caught paying for sex the law makers only want to criminalise and fine that man and hold him responsible but will still legally allow a woman to sell sex and will NOT criminalise her. THAT IS HYPOCRISY AND UNFAIRNESS within the law and its only aim is to condemn and go after the men(clients) which is an extreme evil and also so the government/law makers can get a cut in the sales and law makers should not be allowed to make this into law. I'm only indicating in reality a woman selling sex is more of a guilty party in this matter than a man because shes the one selling and providing the product so to speak which is her body to many men. BUT IM NOT AT ALL against prostitution or a woman or shemale selling sex and the client buying it, IM ALL FOR IT and no one should be arrested, im just indicating that if this ever became law its aim is only to go after the men when THE LAW SHOULD NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT WHATSOEVER to arrest anyone including the women or shemales of course because prostitution is LEGAL in Canada.

If its legal to sell sex than it should be legal to buy it without arresting the man(client) or there would be hypocrisy within the law. Hypocrisy should not be allowed in the law EVER. If its legal to sell sex then it must be legal to buy it or law makers would be hypocrites.

And it is true that judges and juries often are gender biased to favor women over men. Its not just me saying this, please check court statistics. Women who molest a kid are often released from jail in 1 week whereas men who do the same thing get 10 years in prison. And then women who commit murder also recieve a far lighter sentence compared to men and many are freed,please check stats.........ummmmmm, like Casey Anthony.

[dom r]

If the government wish to help then why don't they invent a home aids testing kit where prostitutes can test themselves as well as their clients to find the results in minutes. That would be the solution to the entire problem but no the government is only good at making arrests and charging fines so they can get a cut in the sales instead of helping.