Update on Anti-Prostitution Laws

[Rockheart]

And I will add that prostitution is legal and regulated in Germany, Australia, and the Netherlands.

There are many problems that come with prostitution.

a) sexual harassment
b) rape
c) battering
d) verbal abuse
e) domestic violence
f) a racist practice
g) a violation of human rights
h) childhood sexual abuse
i) a consequence of male domination of women
a means of maintaining male domination of women
k) human trafficing
l) substance abuse
m) unsafe working conditions

I`m not saying that there are no problems that come with prostitution but to say society will come to an end because it will become worldwide debauchery, is also a bit of a reach

These problems come with prostitution you are right.
However expanding prostitution and making it legal just expands these problems.
These things are inherent dangers of prostitution and having sex with many people you do not know.
I shouldn't have to pay for you because you chose a very risky profession.
Go buy some insurance, don't take my tax dollars.
The government should not be in the prostitution business.

If you want safe conditions, get another job and get a mate.
Problem solved.
Having sex with many random men will always be dangerous no matter what.
Selling yourself is always going to be frowned upon, that will never change.

Once again, why should my tax dollars pay for prostitutes to be safe.
There is plenty of safe jobs out there, if you want safety take one of those.

Men forcing women into prostitution is a completely separate issue and is not just men doing it.
Women are pimps too. Men are just becoming scapegoats.

However ending mens role as a dominant sex is not right either.
Men and womens natural roles are there for a reason.
I am not saying it ok to abuse women, I am just saying there is a natural order.
There is a reason women are most attracted to dominant males, it is natural.
I am good looking but wishy washy and unsure of myself, most women want a confident jerk.
Confident jerks will always win over unsure losers like me.
This will not change in peoples hearts.

Prostitution does nothing but sabatoge the natural order of life.
If you think that is wrong, well it is how every species on earth operates.
We are getting to the point of second guessing God, Mother earth and creation.

To me it all is contributing to the demise of the human race, or at least western culture.

[Shyla Wild]

Once again, why should my tax dollars pay for prostitutes to be safe.

Because your tax dollars are presently being used to arrest, hold, charge, and judge. So....why not in a positive way? The cost is about the same.

[Shyla Wild]

You do realize that some escorts do pay taxes. You can register yourself as a business (Adult entertainer), declare 1/3 of your home expenses as a business expense, travel expenses, etc. Yes you will have to declare income, but t least some taxes are paid. It might be a little expensive at first, and most girls would need an accountant to set such a thing up. Also helps getting a credit cards and loans at the bank.

Doesn't girl like this give back to society? If she pays taxes, why can't she be protected?

[dom r]

There are many problems that come with prostitution.

a) sexual harassment
b) rape
c) battering
d) verbal abuse
e) domestic violence
f) a racist practice
g) a violation of human rights
h) childhood sexual abuse
i) a consequence of male domination of women
a means of maintaining male domination of women
k) human trafficing
l) substance abuse
m) unsafe working conditions

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A DOM R EDIT-
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THERE ARE MANY PROBLEMS WITH MARRIAGE.
(marriage is no different than prostitution if women are only in it for the money after they give sex to the husband.)-

a) sexual harassment
b) rape
c) battering
d) verbal abuse
e) domestic violence
f) a violation of human rights
g) a consequence of male domination of women
h) WOMEN WHO TAKE THE POOR GUY'S HOUSE,CAR,HALF OF HIS EARNINGS,ALIMONY AND UNFAIR CHILD SUPPORT............at least prostitutes are fair and honest people(depending) because they receive money per service, but a woman who files for divorce and expects to receive the house,car and payment without giving any service in return is an unfair and corrupted prostitute.

THATS WHY prostitution should be completely legal because ITS A FAIR EXCHANGE. The girl makes the guy cum and the guy pays her. Although I also make the girl I see cum by oral and I still pay her which i enjoy making her cum as much as when i do.

[Shyla Wild]

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A DOM R EDIT-
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( (((

THERE ARE MANY PROBLEMS WITH MARRIAGE.
(marriage is no different than prostitution if women are only in it for the money after they give sex to the husband.)-

a) sexual harassment
b) rape
c) battering
d) verbal abuse
e) domestic violence
f) a violation of human rights
g) a consequence of male domination of women
h) WOMEN WHO TAKE THE POOR GUY'S HOUSE,CAR,HALF OF HIS EARNINGS,ALIMONY AND UNFAIR CHILD SUPPORT............at least prostitutes are fair and honest people(depending) because they receive money per service, but a woman who files for divorce and expects to receive the house,car and payment without giving any service in return is an unfair and corrupted prostitute.

THATS WHY prostitution should be completely legal because ITS A FAIR EXCHANGE. The girl makes the guy cum and the guy pays her. Although I also make the girl I see cum by oral and I still pay her which is still very well worth it.

Completely legal is a stretch. Decrimminalized would be nice.

[dom r]

They should bring up the issue of fairness when defending prostitution in a court of law. You get a woman or shemale who is far more beautiful,young and sensuous than a man, the sexual transaction between the two can never be equal thus the man would always be in debt to her even if he makes the more prettier one cum too.

[Shyla Wild]

They should bring up the issue of fairness when defending prostitution in a court of law. You get a woman or shemale who is far more beautiful,young and sensuous than a man, the sexual transaction between the two can never be equal thus the man would always be in debt to her even if he makes the more prettier one cum too.

hahahaha....where do you come up with this stuff??

[sunshine]

Fascinating thread

This thread has gotten a little off topic but I find it fascinating. I'm reading what you have to say Craig and I certainly agree with what you are saying. However, I might go even further. You made a point about the fact that, if things become free, prostitution will no longer be a viable proposition since it would be free (I'm paraphrasing).

But there's a point behind this. Consider not only the monetization of sex, consider the monetization of everything, of anything.

We need certain things to survive. Clean air, clean water, wholesome food, community, a way to interact with others, a way to be creative and contribute. These are the things we need. But we need money to get access to any of these things (except maybe air and even that might change). So we chase after money in order to what? To gain access to the things we need. And why is that? Is it because money is the only way to make this work? Or is it because a few enrich themselves by making us their financial servants? And, if that's true, will these few let us get to the Utopia that Craig describes where we will get back to access to what we need in order to survive and thrive? If we did get there, porn and prostitution would be the first things to lose their importance. But will it ever get to that?

Craig speaks about the monetization of sex because, as he says, that is what he is immersed in. But each of us is immersed in the monetization of what we are involved in. The monetization is arbitrarily imposed. The sad thing is that we are reaching the point where the monetization of everything is encountering the finite limits of the resources available to us and still we push for more expansion, more growth, more profit.

If an addict can be safer if he has access to a safe injection site, that might seem laudable. It would save on healthcare costs. But why is this guy an addict in the first place? He's got a problem if he has to take drugs to handle being alive. Craig suggests that we should spend the money solving the real problem. OK, I agree. But what is the real problem? Is it maybe the monetization of everything? Does that make nothing of us? Does that belittle us and enslave us so much that we lose hope, lose our perspective, lose our balance? Does that lead to efforts to escape, such as addiction? And how would we fix that? I'm not saying I have the answers but it is fascinating to be talking about it.

Sunshine

[Mr. Sinister]

I live in the United States. We have the most harsh anti-prostitution laws in the world. The police are very aggressive in trying to arrest prostitutes and their clients. Despite all the millions of dollars wasted trying to stop prostitution in the U.S., the vast majority of law enforcement officials admit that it cannot be stopped. Every day, thousands of people engage in prostitution in the U.S. despite the country having the most harsh laws against it in the world. The U.S., because of its puritan bible thumping background, will continue to waste millions of tax payer dollars trying to stop prostitution.

I encourage those in Canada to fight hard for the legalization of prostitution. You can pay a doctor to perform open heart surgery on you, you can pay someone to cut your hair, but you can't pay someone to have their genitals touch your genitals, which is basically what sex is.

The biggest reason to legalize prostitution is that what two consenting adults do on private property should be their business. If sex for money occurs between two consenting adults, why should anyone be arrested? People should be able to live their private lives however they want to. The police should not trying to impose morality on any adult citizens. What happens between adults should be their business, not the government's.

[toban]

Exactly!!

Mr. S, though we here in Canada are somewhat less fanatic about the sale of sex as in the US, what you have said still has considerable relevance to us. Actually, prostitution is already legal in Canada but it is quite difficult to practice it legally without running afoul of some regulation.

I agree wholeheartedly with your position with one small exception, that being your statement about the imposition of morality by the police.

The cause of the predicament with regard to the sale of sexual services, in which we all find ourselves, lies not with the police, but with the often puritanical views of our elected politicians and the unwieldly and largely unenforcible laws which they then create. Sadly, the police are then obligated to enforce those laws.

WE may feel anger over the policing of these laws because during their enforcement, the police are the ones we must come face to face with but the true causal agents are the politicians that we ourselves have elected.

Note:
I am one of the unfortunates snagged in a sting operation, spent some hours sitting in a courtroom completely unaware that the "good" cop who had been obligated to arrest me, had ensured that all the documents relating to my case could not be found at court that day, which of course resulted in a dismissal of the charges against me!

I live in the United States. We have the most harsh anti-prostitution laws in the world. The police are very aggressive in trying to arrest prostitutes and their clients. Despite all the millions of dollars wasted trying to stop prostitution in the U.S., the vast majority of law enforcement officials admit that it cannot be stopped. Every day, thousands of people engage in prostitution in the U.S. despite the country having the most harsh laws against it in the world. The U.S., because of its puritan bible thumping background, will continue to waste millions of tax payer dollars trying to stop prostitution.

I encourage those in Canada to fight hard for the legalization of prostitution. You can pay a doctor to perform open heart surgery on you, you can pay someone to cut your hair, but you can't pay someone to have their genitals touch your genitals, which is basically what sex is.

The biggest reason to legalize prostitution is that what two consenting adults do on private property should be their business. If sex for money occurs between two consenting adults, why should anyone be arrested? People should be able to live their private lives however they want to. The police should not trying to impose morality on any adult citizens. What happens between adults should be their business, not the government's.

[toban]

It may be legal but - - - -

While prostitution may officially be legal in Canada the practice of it is still hindered by some very restrictive regulations.

e.g. just a few hours ago a CBC news report this morning stated that in the city of Sudbury 4 females and 2 males were arrested during a crackdown on street prostitution in that city. This probably relates to the fact that an under-cover police officer posing as either a prostitute or a customer entices someone to make an inquiry about the purchase or sale of some sexual service whereupon they are then arrested and charged with ?communication in a public place?! This is a Canadian charge generally used in dealing with street-workers.

Here is a link to Section 213 of the Criminal Code of Canada as it relates to ?Communication? :- http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...e-96.html#h-72

[Shyla Wild]

While prostitution may officially be legal in Canada the practice of it is still hindered by some very restrictive regulations.

e.g. just a few hours ago a CBC news report this morning stated that in the city of Sudbury 4 females and 2 males were arrested during a crackdown on street prostitution in that city. This probably relates to the fact that an under-cover police officer posing as either a prostitute or a customer entices someone to make an inquiry about the purchase or sale of some sexual service whereupon they are then arrested and charged with ?communication in a public place?! This is a Canadian charge generally used in dealing with street-workers.

Here is a link to Section 213 of the Criminal Code of Canada as it relates to ?Communication? :- http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...e-96.html#h-72

The biggest problem to the law is this part:

Definition of ?public place?
(2) In this section, ?public place? includes any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, express or implied, and any motor vehicle located in a public place or in any place open to public view.

See, internet is the grey zone. In many cities we can advertise in newspapers and most of us are advertised on the internet. If the internet is considered a public place (even if most of us have disclaimers) why is a newspaper not? By this law, you CANNOT arrest a girl that is not on the streets or in public view.

Here is an interesting twist of the Law. In most cities, street vendors require a permit. These permits allow solicitation of goods and services. If an escort were somehow able to get her hands on one of these permits (the waiting list is sick) I believe it would be an interesting court battle.

[toban]

The key word in the regulation is "PLACE"

The biggest problem to the law is this part:

Definition of “public place”
(2) In this section, “public place” includes any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, express or implied, and any motor vehicle located in a public place or in any place open to public view.

See, internet is the grey zone. In many cities we can advertise in newspapers and most of us are advertised on the internet. If the internet is considered a public place (even if most of us have disclaimers) why is a newspaper not? By this law, you CANNOT arrest a girl that is not on the streets or in public view.

Here is an interesting twist of the Law. In most cities, street vendors require a permit. These permits allow solicitation of goods and services. If an escort were somehow able to get her hands on one of these permits (the waiting list is sick) I believe it would be an interesting court battle.

I think the internet will be a safe place to conduct business for the next while because it is not a physical "place", as described in the law, and therefore does not come under this prohibition - of course some legal beagles might argue otherwise!

Similarly, newspapers are not "places" either and the fact that some print and internet media do in fact offer escort ads while others do not is proof enough that those organizations consider themselves safe from prosecution. Each media outlet or chain has it's own internal standards set by it's owners or boards to govern what content they are allowed to carry.

Again Shyla, it is the refusal our gutless politicians to acknowledge the present-day facts of life and also the unwillingness of these same laggards to reform these Victorian-age laws of ours to conform to today's standards of morality.

[Shyla Wild]

Procuring

Procuring
212. (1) Every one who


(j) lives wholly or in part on the avails of prostitution of another person,


I brought this up before. Interesting law, because in theory a fulltime escort uses her money to pay for things. The second she hands her money to someone else, this law becomes active. This means clothes, food, rent, etc. You cannot pay for anything without breaking this law.

[toban]

In the end it seems we all have to play it by ear.

Procuring

Procuring
212. (1) Every one who


(j) lives wholly or in part on the avails of prostitution of another person,


I brought this up before. Interesting law, because in theory a fulltime escort uses her money to pay for things. The second she hands her money to someone else, this law becomes active. This means clothes, food, rent, etc. You cannot pay for anything without breaking this law.

That's a difficult one for sure. In reality no one can be certain how the legalites will choose to interpret any regulation - sometimes they use the strict interpretation of the phrase or clause, other times they go by the intent of those who first wrote the piece and sometimes the judge places his own interpretation on it.