Men - how do you feel with TS call you "bottom queens' or "faggots"

[dom r]

Under the law a third sex cannot exist.
That is my point all along.
My tax dollars should not pay for people to live in some sexual fun land.

Dude there is two genders for the creation of babies, that is all.
Name one other gender recognized by science.

Scientists or the government don't recognise or label other possible gender variations because they discriminate,are prejudice.(not to call you that) or are not using proper science like they should be.

All im saying what ever PRECISE change occurs to a male's body,face,breasts,figure,skin,voice when on female hormones is what makes them a fusion gender and not fully a male any longer.(although hormones cannot change the voice(?).) The more physical change that does occur naturally when on hormones, the more female he becomes, plain and simple. If a male child of 10 is on female hormones, he will completely by-pass the pubescent manly growth that occurs between 12 to 17 except for his (?) thus appearing 100% like a woman's body and face by 17 with no addams apple,manly body,shoulders and chest. Sorry gent, thats not a male any longer.

Lets hope this hermaphrodite is real, although im quite happy with just the cunt and butt. True hermaphrodites are capable of creating babies as well as male and female. Although they cannot engage in penetration due to having soft penis's that only become partially erected, so when comparing them to male and female intercourse, their chances of impregnating a woman is greatly far less but its possible-

[Shyla Wild]

Science or the government don't recognise or label other possible gender variations because they discriminate and are prejudice.(not to call you that).

When the first statement in your counter argument is wrong, then your entire opinion will not be taken seriously. Yes, the government can discriminate, but not science. The Scientific Method has been developed to get the most accurate and unbiased results.

Here are some advancements in just the last 100 years.

20th and 21st centuries

• 1926 — Randomized design popularized and analyzed by Ronald Fisher
• 1934 — Falsifiability as a criterion for evaluating new hypotheses is popularized by Karl Popper's The Logic of Scientific Discovery
• 1937 — Controlled placebo trial
• 1946 — First computer simulation
• 1950 — Double blind experiment
• 1962 — Meta study of scientific method (Thomas Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions)
• 1964 — Strong inference proposed by John R. Platt[5]
• 2009 — Adam - First working prototype of a "robot scientist" able to perform independent experiments to test hypotheses and interpret findings without human guidance.

Do you know what happens to scientists that have biased results or falsify their results? They get ripped apart, lose credibility, and are NEVER TAKEN SERIOUSLY AGAIN. Is this really a good way to use the Ph.D that you spend over 20 years of schooling to get?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=an-epidemic-of-false-claims

You don't thing that people do research on that research. All findings must be reproducible.

Reproducibility is the degree of agreement between measurements or observations conducted on replicate specimens in different locations by different people. Reproducibility is part of the precision of a test method.^[1]

Lastly, your methods are biased and unscientific. When you post pictures and ask people a question based on their observation, then you are using their preception. Preception is biased and mostly unreproducible. The method that you use for your ideas is over 1000 years old and very dated as in 1021 Alhazen introduces the experimental method and combines observations, experiments and rational arguments in his Book of Optics.

Science has been known to make mistakes, but other scientists are more then happy to disprove false results, dated results or just common knowledge.

[Meagan Nutwood]

Under the law a third sex cannot exist.
That is my point all along.
My tax dollars should not pay for people to live in some sexual fun land.

What do you mean your sex does not determine your gender.
Your gender is what you were born male or female, there is only 2.

Your sexuality is who you want to sleep with and what equipment you like to use etc.
Sexual preference and the act of sex.
Most of that is in your brain, your gender is something you have when you were born.

It's pretty simple.

There is so many different brains and they have studied so few, I don't buy this many people are like this.
Much more of it is sexual preference than gender dsyphoria.

It does NOT determine my gender. My gender is already made up regardless of what sex I am. My sex, my physical genitalia is male. My gender, My lifestyle, my mannerisms, (EVERYTHING THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SEXUAL INTERCOURSE) is female. So you're revolving this whole thing around sex which is fucking stupid and ignorant, like i've been telling you. What I do in the bed room has nothing to do with who I am in the regular world.

Sex refers to biological differences; chromosomes, hormonal profiles, internal and external sex organs.

Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine.

You don't even know that. And even with the article I posted you still continue to discredit the many trans people out there all because you are making narrow minded assumptions based on what they do in the bed room. You have way too much to say for someone who doesn't know anything.

Like, are you kidding me with that comment about the different brains? when you had just said that there is no difference in a transsexual brain and a regular man's brain? And now you're saying that there are so many different brains out there and they aren't studying enough of them? lol
You really need to just keep quiet, because I'm tired of having this ridiculous dicsussion and having you go back and change your arguement back, forth, up and down.

You don't know very much about transgendered people, accept it. Just continue to run your shemale sites and stop passing your place where you have no business, busy fool.

[Rockheart]

It does NOT determine my gender. My gender is already made up regardless of what sex I am. My sex, my physical genitalia is male. My gender, My lifestyle, my mannerisms, (EVERYTHING THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SEXUAL INTERCOURSE) is female. So you're revolving this whole thing around sex which is fucking stupid and ignorant, like i've been telling you. What I do in the bed room has nothing to do with who I am in the regular world.

Sex refers to biological differences; chromosomes, hormonal profiles, internal and external sex organs.

Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine.

You don't even know that. And even with the article I posted you still continue to discredit the many trans people out there all because you are making narrow minded assumptions based on what they do in the bed room. You have way too much to say for someone who doesn't know anything.

Gender = Male or Female, that is all.
Gender is not sex, sex is sex.
I think you speak of traditional gender roles.
As far as this goes wearing womens clothing doesn't mean anything.
Only society says women should wear panties and men where boxers or whatever.
Saying you are a boy, when born a boy is not culture, it is nature and a fact.

Sex is the real world, the bedroom is the real world.
What you speak of is the personae you project when you go out in public, which is also the real world.
I totally respect your right to project a female personae all you want but sex is the real world.

Everything to do with sex and gender has to do with sexual intercourse, otherwise it wouldn't exist and we would be one sex.
We would all drop babies out of our assholes and never need sex.
Gender, genitals, all of it is about sex and there is no denying that.

You cannot say you are a female, but it has nothing to do with sex.
If you want to be a female, you ultimately want to get fucked and have a baby.
A TS cannot say she can fuck with her cock in the bedroom but when she goes out in public she magically transforms into a genetic woman. I fully understand the concept of the female brain, i just don't buy that so many people out there think they have this condition.
Some of it is just sexual preference, as such, I should not be funding sexual pleasure with my tax dollars.
There is more important deadly diseases out there than someones sexual confusion.

Putting a cock of a male human into the vagina of a female human is sex.
Putting a cock in an ass is sex to some but not the intended procreational sex that happens between a male and female.
Sperm meets egg, that is the whole goal of two genders and thus sex itself.
There is other social aspects to sex, such as domination and control but that considered savage in todays society.
The role of women in todays society has changed the role of man considerably. Being a macho stud with no limits isn't cool anymore.
Androgynous people are becoming more common as such, the birth rate in our countries is dropping and dropping.

Sex is the act of having sex, your sexual preferences etc.
Culture is culture, it varies depending where you are.
The hearth of modern culture recently has been the USA but this only defines gender roles, not sex.

I am not discrediting anyone.
I have seen the massive influx of ladyboys in Thailand and I know they are not all women trapped in mens body.
Many aspects of their culture have led them to live this way, such as gay hostility, mandatory military service and profit.
Some do have the condition but in Thailand it is popular to be Transgendered, trying to be cool and fit in it is not a medical condition.
I see the exactly same thing happening here slowly.

Now that MTFs can enter Miss America, I know damn well someone is going to bringing up their little boy to be in the pageant.
People are freaky this way. In Thailand today, many families bring up their boys as girls soley for profit.
This is crazy and sick.
So to try and say this proliferation of "Transsexuals" is just a natural occurance of nature, I disagree.

Science means that ONE article does not mean anything.
Science means hundreds and thousands of articles and studies and experiments.

I have read your one article and take it under consideration, but since they have only tested a tiny amount of real brains, I just don't think that it is as prevalent as you think. I don't disagree with the concept at all, I just think it is more sexual preference in many than any type of disorder. This is my main point, that is seems odd that suddenly so many people have this "Disorder".
I do not believe it is a disorder at all in many cases but Sexual preference.
To me we wrongly describe sexual preference as a disorder.

What about this article that says transgenders have higher rates of autism.
Maybe some are autistic and not a female in males body, just one theory of many.
http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/1...tistic-traits/

This one about the Brain sex theory says a large portion of those identifying as TG is due to sexual preference, among other things.
They do point to a possible marker that weeds it out.
http://www.annelawrence.com/brain-sex_critique.html

Some studies have found many transgenders are born with naturally higher testosterone that most men and as such have very high levels of estrogen to balance that. This is said to cause the extraordinary female feeling some have.
This article describes some that have found this when taking testosterone supplements.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/gender/story_021108.html

There is studies and papers up the ying yang on this one, however it is still all theory and may never be known.
This condition has all to do with how your brain fires rather than your physical gender.
However a great portion of it is sexual preference.
I am not trying to discredit anyone, I am trying to say that everyone out there does not have a condition sexuality.

Some gays may think they are just sexually attracted to men and are gay.
Some gays think they must be women if they are sexually attracted to men but are just gay.
Some aren't gay but female brains in male bodies.
It all depends on how your brain thinks and how you were brought up.
The general thought it seems is that gender does not determine what gender you will attracted to.
The majority of the population, men are attracted to women primarily, and vice versa.

There is a huge level of gender uncertainty in today's society.
With the increasing role of women in business and traditionally male dominated roles, the gender roles in our society have been blurred.
Women deciding on careers over having children is something that only men did in the past.
Possibly though the movement of women to male roles means many are not fulfilling their true roles as females and child bearers.
Women can say they were meant for big business and not motherhood, but this is just not true.

As a result there is much less definition of genders in todays households.
Day care is prevelant and many don't get the influence of their parents like they used to.
This is leading to new generations that are confused about their roles in nature and sexuality.
The family unit in out society is ceasing to exist.

There is so much discussion around this and so many unknowns, you there is no hard facts.
The only hard facts around gender and sex is that the intention is that males and females have sex to produce babies.
The rest of it is all a mish mash.

I know it is also an issue in todays society in that people always want to have some "condtion"
Ask anyone today and they will list off their "conditions" like a roll of honour.
What is the reason everyone today has to feel there is something wrong with them, a disorder.
Why is nearly anyone satisfied with who they are anymore.
I blame science and the drug companies, drug companies profit from people that think they are different and don't fit in.
The problem is, these feelings happen to everyone.
Now it is ok for us all to drug out children, where is society going?
Don't smoke pot, but it is ok to take a handful of pills to be normal.

[Rockheart]

Science or the government don't recognise or label other possible gender variations because they discriminate and are prejudice.(not to call you that).

All im saying what ever PRECISE change occurs to a male's body,face,breasts,figure,skin,voice when on female hormones is what makes them a fusion gender and not fully a male any longer.(although hormones cannot change the voice(?).) The more physical change that does occur naturally when on hormones, the more female he becomes, plain and simple. If a male child of 10 is on female hormones, he will completely by-pass the pubescent manly growth that occurs between 12 to 17 except for his (?) thus appearing 100% like a woman's body and face by 17 with no addams apple,manly body,shoulders and chest. Sorry gent, thats not a male any longer.

Lets hope this hermaphrodite is real, although im quite happy with just the cunt and butt. True hermaphrodites are capable of creating babies as well as male and female. Although they cannot engage in penetration due to having soft penis's that only become partially erected, so when comparing them to male and female intercourse, their chances of impregnating a woman is greatly far less but its possible-

Dom R.

There is two genders.
Male and female.
As I say, you fail to name the additional genders that need to be considered?

Governments cannot legislate new genders, they don't exist.

All these pictures of hermaphrodites you post are fake, all of them.
The number of humans like this that exist are tiny.
You will also find that if you did find a human like this, they would probably be female.
Their cock would essentially be a super large clitoris.

This person you show does not have testicles, so they most likely could not impregnate anyone.
There was a story about a Hermy who impregnated herself, however this may be BS.
No matter, there is so few of these people that ever existed that it is not statistically significant.

You are not getting my point at all.
TS are saying they are Females in Males bodies, they are not saying they are some kind of third or fourth sex.
As such they are also saying there is only two genders and they are not comfortable with the one they are born as.

There isn't any other genders and no one should be able to create them.

You still didn't say why you decided to post my ex-girlfriends picture as an example?

[Shyla Wild]

"Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women.
"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.
Sex cannot be argued. You are what you are. Micheal Jackson got whiter and whiter over his life but that did not make him white. He was still born black.

Gender is where Sociology begins. This spawns such topics as Gender Identity, Gender Role, etc. Usually this is not problem or issue as most people have the same gender role and identity as their born sex. But with Trans-people it is an issue as our gender roles and identity differ from our born sexes.

[Rockheart]

"Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women.
"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.
Sex cannot be argued. You are what you are. Micheal Jackson got whiter and whiter over his life but that did not make him white. He was still born black.

Gender is where Sociology begins. This spawns such topics as Gender Identity, Gender Role, etc. Usually this is not problem or issue as most people have the same gender role and identity as their born sex. But with Trans-people it is an issue as our gender roles and identity differ from our born sexes.

Yes you are actually right and I am wrong about the defintion of gender.
I apologize for saying anyone wasn't right.
My terminolgy is backward but it doesn't change my point.

There is two sexes male and female.
As such there is two gender classifications.
I am not wrong in any way by saying there is only two sexes and two genders.
I am not saying being male maps to being masculine except you have a penis which cannot be denied.

However there is only two sexes and only two gender classifications.
If there was a third or fourth, they would have characteristics unlike male or female.
What would that be? Nothing, it can't exist.
There can be a melding of feminine and masculine characteristics and nothing else.

My main point is there is only two sexes and two genders.
There may be mixes and various levels of gender but you cannot deny what sex you were born.
If you think you were born in the wrong body, then that is what you think.
I cannot argue with that at all. What you think is what you think.

The government is not in the business of defining genders.
No matter what gender you identify with you are born one primarily sex.

However there is absolutely nothing feminine about a cock, it is masculine.
There is absolutely nothing masculine about a vagina, it is feminine.

If wear make up and panties may be a feminine trait but does not stop a man from doing it.

I still say that much of this is sexual preference rather than gender dsyphoria.
If you tell me that gender is only a construct of the human mind, that makes my point stronger.

Anyway I am sorry if anyone is offended, I am only trying to foster discussion.
I can be wrong or mistaken but discussion is what it it all about.

My idea that i shouldn't have to financially support those that are truly only following their sexual preference is my point.
I may have gotten terms confused and contradicted myself by posting many times on different dates.
Next time I will just write a paper and the won't happen.
I have no ill will towards any transgender or anyone mostly.

Take my rantings as you may,
My last point is only this.

[Shyla Wild]

Yes you are actually right and I am wrong about the defintion of gender.
I apologize for saying anyone wasn't right.
My terminolgy is backward but it doesn't change my point.

There is two sexes male and female.
As such there is two gender classifications.
I am not wrong in any way by saying there is only two sexes and two genders.
I am not saying being male maps to being masculine except you have a penis which cannot be denied.

However there is only two sexes and only two gender classifications.
If there was a third or fourth, they would have characteristics unlike male or female.
What would that be? Nothing, it can't exist.
There can be a melding of feminine and masculine characteristics and nothing else.

My main point is there is only two sexes and two genders.
There may be mixes and various levels of gender but you cannot deny what sex you were born.
If you think you were born in the wrong body, then that is what you think.
I cannot argue with that at all. What you think is what you think.

The government is not in the business of defining genders.
No matter what gender you identify with you are born one primarily sex.

However there is absolutely nothing feminine about a cock, it is masculine.
There is absolutely nothing masculine about a vagina, it is feminine.

If wear make up and panties may be a feminine trait but does not stop a man from doing it.

I still say that much of this is sexual preference rather than gender dsyphoria.
If you tell me that gender is only a construct of the human mind, that makes my point stronger.

Anyway I am sorry if anyone is offended, I am only trying to foster discussion.
I can be wrong or mistaken but discussion is what it it all about.

My idea that i shouldn't have to financially support those that are truly only following their sexual preference is my point.
I may have gotten terms confused and contradicted myself by posting many times on different dates.
Next time I will just write a paper and the won't happen.
I have no ill will towards any transgender or anyone mostly.

Take my rantings as you may,
My last point is only this.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]44617[/ATTACH]

I won't even argue this. There are points I agree with, just like I agreed with some of Meagans' points. Both of you are right and wrong, but I think to really understand this stuff, we need an expert in Sociology with a specialty in Sexuality.

I know you have been playing devil's advocate here. But filtering through what you are saying, I believe your greatest issue is that you do not want your tax money going into a lot of our transition. I too would not want my tax dollars going into causes or issues I do not agree with.

I pay for my treatment like many girls on here. My Pysch, Med's, laser, etc have all come out of my pocket. I have no problem paying for these things. Other things like my regular doctor visits, visits to my endo, blood work, etc are covered by medicare (Quebec Health Care). This is normal for any gender. To be denied these services or to deny these services, would be a violation of human rights or discrimination.

In favor or your argument, Quebec Health Care covers SRS. But understand, it's not like you can walk in today and get your papers for SRS tomorrow. There is screening and testing, letters from 2 health care professionals, and the list goes on.

As for sex, gender and sexuality; the only place I am not too clear is your definition of sexuality. We agree that there are two sexes. We agree that my definition of gender is correct. So....Sexuality can be many things like male or female sexuality, gender identity, sexual activity and sexual orientation. There are others but I doubt plant, animal or child sexuality was your definition.

I did a bit of reading into this and it seems like we were all mixing up terms that we did not really understand. Moreover, sometimes we also did not understand that certain things are fields of other things. I did not know that gender identity was a field in Sexuality.

I also realized how vast Sexuality is as a subject. I found a list of articles on subjects of sexuality on Wiki. There is an index on articles that is 36 pages long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_human_sexuality_articles

Oh! This is Wiki's definition of sexuality. Sexuality covers a broad range of topics, including the physiological, psychological, social, cultural, political, philosophical, ethical, moral, theological, legal and spiritual or religious aspects of sex and human sexual behavior.

[Rockheart]

I won't even argue this. There are points I agree with, just like I agreed with some of Meagans' points. Both of you are right and wrong, but I think to really understand this stuff, we need an expert in Sociology with a specialty in Sexuality.

I know you have been playing devil's advocate here. But filtering through what you are saying, I believe your greatest issue is that you do not want your tax money going into a lot of our transition. I too would not want my tax dollars going into causes or issues I do not agree with.

I pay for my treatment like many girls on here. My Pysch, Med's, laser, etc have all come out of my pocket. I have no problem paying for these things. Other things like my regular doctor visits, visits to my endo, blood work, etc are covered by medicare (Quebec Health Care). This is normal for any gender. To be denied these services or to deny these services, would be a violation of human rights or discrimination.

In favor or your argument, Quebec Health Care covers SRS. But understand, it's not like you can walk in today and get your papers for SRS tomorrow. There is screening and testing, letters from 2 health care professionals, and the list goes on.

As for sex, gender and sexuality; the only place I am not too clear is your definition of sexuality. We agree that there are two sexes. We agree that my definition of gender is correct. So....Sexuality can be many things like male or female sexuality, gender identity, sexual activity and sexual orientation. There are others but I doubt plant, animal or child sexuality was your definition.

I did a bit of reading into this and it seems like we were all mixing up terms that we did not really understand. Moreover, sometimes we also did not understand that certain things are fields of other things. I did not know that gender identity was a field in Sexuality.

I believe no one understands it.
People only know how they feel.

If it is medical, it is not like a broken leg and easy to fix.
If it is mental, it is not easy to figure out.
Mental is alot like a computer and whatever is loaded into your memory can be different from person to person.
The path your information flows in your brain is different for all.

I am against the definition of any thing besides Male or Female, Masculine or Feminine.
You can label variations as you like but they are just labels.

There is only two columns for each whether you are talking Gender or sex.
There can be many variations in each column but there is only 2 columns for sex, 2 columns for gender.

Saying we need washrooms for 3 sexes is not right.
This is an example of what I would hate my tax dollars going to.

At worst there should be adult and childrens washrooms, Male, Female, children.
Either your brain or body fits one of these categories.

Otherwise we just need ONE washroom.
Nobody is supposed to be doing anything unusual.

No matter if you talk Gender or Sex there is only qualities of each one.
No new sexes and genders.

[Shyla Wild]

I
Saying we need washrooms for 3 sexes is not right.
This is an example of what I would hate my tax dollars going to.

This really shouldn't be an issue. If you pass, then you won't have a problem in the girls washroom. If you do have an issue, then look in the mirror, fix it, and try again. Being passable isn't just looking like a woman, it's acting like one.

On a final note, why the fuck would I want to use a tranny public washroom? To clock myself? To tell everyone what I am? Thanks, but no thanks. Society would not be kind. Imagine Jewish public restrooms during the time of the Nazi's. Okay, it was wrong to compare the two, but you understand my point.

[dom r]

When the first statement in your counter argument is wrong, then your entire opinion will not be taken seriously. Yes, the government can discriminate, but not science. The Scientific Method has been developed to get the most accurate and unbiased results.

Science has been known to make mistakes, but other scientists are more then happy to disprove false results, dated results or just common knowledge.

Ok I made an edit and changed science to scientists,

Scientists or the government don't recognise or label other possible gender variations because they discriminate,are prejudice(not to call you that) or are not using proper science like they should be.

Some scientists do acknowlege the precise physical changes that occur when a male is on female hormones, don't they? When on hormones physical changes do occur correct or is it all fake? These precise physical changes(example softer skin,tits,face,etc) is what changes their gender thus they are no longer 100% male, its not possible that they still are just because they have a penis when OTHER female physical changes have occured showing their female version of what they would of looked like if born as such. That is not a complete male any longer that is a gender that has been fused into another. To prove this is very simple, I have no gay porn,I only have shemale or female porn, I do not have any "all male" porno.

Although I may be mistaken to claim a tranny(fusion-gender) on female hormones is partly fake if she has a face lift,face job,voice change or breast implants because if the face,breasts and voice are made to look and sound all female without hormones the result is a female face,female tits and female voice is it not? I think I now beleave that even if a man who is not on female hormones and never was were to get face surgery,voice job and breast implants and the results would be having the 100% appearance and voice of a woman I now truly beleave his face,voice and tits WOULD IN FACT BE FEMALE and he would IN FACT be a fusion-gender(tranny) and no longer a male. Scientists and gov should recognise these changes in a gender but they dont want to.



Sorry, she is not "a male", in reality by her appearance and voice, shes female with male genitalia. THERE thats how scientists and governments should label her. Her driver's license under gender should read, "female with male genitalia", NOT "male" and not "tanny".

Dom R.
There is two genders.
Male and female.
As I say, you fail to name the additional genders that need to be considered?

Governments cannot legislate new genders, they don't exist.

Scientists and governments simply do not want to name all the different gender variations and they do in fact exist. Theres not only male and female,there are fusions of the two.

[Shyla Wild]

Holy shit! Okay, no joke this is one of the most well thought out posts I do believe I have ever seen from you.

The problem is not really that they are prejudice or otherwise. The problem is truly that Sexuality falls into the social sciences. If you look at the fields within social science: anthropology, archaeology, criminology, economics, political science and international relations, sociology, geography, history, law, and psychology you will notice a trend. Not a single one is true fact. They are made up of trends, observations, theories and hypothesis. At any given time something can be proven wrong. Psychology believed that lobotomies were a cure and geography that the world was flat.

• Anthropology - Study of culture and evolution: Are we any closer to knowing when we evolve next?
• Archaeology - Study of Culture through remains of from Past: We still have no idea what happened to the dinosaurs or how the pymraids were built...some say aliens.
• Criminology - The study of crime: So you study crime...wow, because the crime rate seems to stay about the same...does this studying lead to anything?
• Economics - Study of production of human good and distribution: In theory, knowing this stuff should make you rich. But no one can predict a market.

You get my point...I can rip each one for flaws and holes.

As for taking hormones and percents, certain things...like your born sex do not work in percents. You are male or female. Once again as we have spoken about this in the past, taking hormones is something that would be done by someone with gender issues. No one living within their born sex's gender role or identity would ever take hormones.

Yes physical changes occur, but no matter how many hormones you take, they will not change your genitals. Therefore you are either male, female or in a period of transition. Since this period should be temporary it is not recognized by the Government. Plus, social science is mainly theories. Hard to recognize something that they are not sure about.

As for Bailey Jay...don't judge a book by it's cover....

For someone calling sciencists and governments prejuduce and then you do EXACTLY the samething. Your preception is not scientific evidence. The results cannot be reproduced. Okay, you show a pic of Bailey Jay on a shemale site. Of course people are going to say that's a woman. Try to reproduce those results elsewhere. Try some church site.

Ok I made an edit and changed science to scientists,

Scientists or the government don't recognise or label other possible gender variations because they discriminate,are prejudice(not to call you that) or are not using proper science like they should be.

Some scientists do acknowlege the precise physical changes that occur when a male is on female hormones, don't they? When on hormones physical changes do occur correct or is it all fake? These precise physical changes(example softer skin,tits,face,etc) is what changes their gender thus they are no longer 100% male, its not possible that they still are just because they have a penis when OTHER female physical changes have occured showing their female version of what they would of looked like if born as such. That is not a complete male any longer that is a gender that has been fused into another. To prove this is very simple, I have no gay porn,I only have shemale or female porn, I do not have any "all male" porno.

[Meagan Nutwood]

Gender = Male or Female, that is all.
Gender is not sex, sex is sex.
I think you speak of traditional gender roles.
As far as this goes wearing womens clothing doesn't mean anything.
Only society says women should wear panties and men where boxers or whatever.
Saying you are a boy, when born a boy is not culture, it is nature and a fact.

Sex is the real world, the bedroom is the real world.
What you speak of is the personae you project when you go out in public, which is also the real world.
I totally respect your right to project a female personae all you want but sex is the real world.

Everything to do with sex and gender has to do with sexual intercourse, otherwise it wouldn't exist and we would be one sex.
We would all drop babies out of our assholes and never need sex.
Gender, genitals, all of it is about sex and there is no denying that.

You cannot say you are a female, but it has nothing to do with sex.
If you want to be a female, you ultimately want to get fucked and have a baby.
A TS cannot say she can fuck with her cock in the bedroom but when she goes out in public she magically transforms into a genetic woman. I fully understand the concept of the female brain, i just don't buy that so many people out there think they have this condition.
Some of it is just sexual preference, as such, I should not be funding sexual pleasure with my tax dollars.
There is more important deadly diseases out there than someones sexual confusion.

Putting a cock of a male human into the vagina of a female human is sex.
Putting a cock in an ass is sex to some but not the intended procreational sex that happens between a male and female.
Sperm meets egg, that is the whole goal of two genders and thus sex itself.
There is other social aspects to sex, such as domination and control but that considered savage in todays society.
The role of women in todays society has changed the role of man considerably. Being a macho stud with no limits isn't cool anymore.
Androgynous people are becoming more common as such, the birth rate in our countries is dropping and dropping.

Sex is the act of having sex, your sexual preferences etc.
Culture is culture, it varies depending where you are.
The hearth of modern culture recently has been the USA but this only defines gender roles, not sex.

I am not discrediting anyone.
I have seen the massive influx of ladyboys in Thailand and I know they are not all women trapped in mens body.
Many aspects of their culture have led them to live this way, such as gay hostility, mandatory military service and profit.
Some do have the condition but in Thailand it is popular to be Transgendered, trying to be cool and fit in it is not a medical condition.
I see the exactly same thing happening here slowly.

Now that MTFs can enter Miss America, I know damn well someone is going to bringing up their little boy to be in the pageant.
People are freaky this way. In Thailand today, many families bring up their boys as girls soley for profit.
This is crazy and sick.
So to try and say this proliferation of "Transsexuals" is just a natural occurance of nature, I disagree.

Science means that ONE article does not mean anything.
Science means hundreds and thousands of articles and studies and experiments.

I have read your one article and take it under consideration, but since they have only tested a tiny amount of real brains, I just don't think that it is as prevalent as you think. I don't disagree with the concept at all, I just think it is more sexual preference in many than any type of disorder. This is my main point, that is seems odd that suddenly so many people have this "Disorder".
I do not believe it is a disorder at all in many cases but Sexual preference.
To me we wrongly describe sexual preference as a disorder.

What about this article that says transgenders have higher rates of autism.
Maybe some are autistic and not a female in males body, just one theory of many.
http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/1...tistic-traits/

This one about the Brain sex theory says a large portion of those identifying as TG is due to sexual preference, among other things.
They do point to a possible marker that weeds it out.
http://www.annelawrence.com/brain-sex_critique.html

Some studies have found many transgenders are born with naturally higher testosterone that most men and as such have very high levels of estrogen to balance that. This is said to cause the extraordinary female feeling some have.
This article describes some that have found this when taking testosterone supplements.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/gender/story_021108.html

There is studies and papers up the ying yang on this one, however it is still all theory and may never be known.
This condition has all to do with how your brain fires rather than your physical gender.
However a great portion of it is sexual preference.
I am not trying to discredit anyone, I am trying to say that everyone out there does not have a condition sexuality.

Some gays may think they are just sexually attracted to men and are gay.
Some gays think they must be women if they are sexually attracted to men but are just gay.
Some aren't gay but female brains in male bodies.
It all depends on how your brain thinks and how you were brought up.
The general thought it seems is that gender does not determine what gender you will attracted to.
The majority of the population, men are attracted to women primarily, and vice versa.

There is a huge level of gender uncertainty in today's society.
With the increasing role of women in business and traditionally male dominated roles, the gender roles in our society have been blurred.
Women deciding on careers over having children is something that only men did in the past.
Possibly though the movement of women to male roles means many are not fulfilling their true roles as females and child bearers.
Women can say they were meant for big business and not motherhood, but this is just not true.

As a result there is much less definition of genders in todays households.
Day care is prevelant and many don't get the influence of their parents like they used to.
This is leading to new generations that are confused about their roles in nature and sexuality.
The family unit in out society is ceasing to exist.

There is so much discussion around this and so many unknowns, you there is no hard facts.
The only hard facts around gender and sex is that the intention is that males and females have sex to produce babies.
The rest of it is all a mish mash.

I know it is also an issue in todays society in that people always want to have some "condtion"
Ask anyone today and they will list off their "conditions" like a roll of honour.
What is the reason everyone today has to feel there is something wrong with them, a disorder.
Why is nearly anyone satisfied with who they are anymore.
I blame science and the drug companies, drug companies profit from people that think they are different and don't fit in.
The problem is, these feelings happen to everyone.
Now it is ok for us all to drug out children, where is society going?
Don't smoke pot, but it is ok to take a handful of pills to be normal.

Oh my lord... Agree to disagree then

[cameeindos]

my apologies for bringing up a really old thread. but then i don't really give a fuck if some TS calls me a fag or even thinks it.

why? since i know what i like, and her view as an escort is immaterial to me.

i'll admit that i like to bottom mostly and i have my reasons for this since i have an anal sexuality.

i think men need to chill and accept what it is, or what YOU are. with acceptance comes peace.

I really don't give a fuck if some escort stranger thinks that her clients are gay for being bottoms. i'm in too much pleasure to give a shit at the time, and afterwards i'm in a daze lol.

[libby]

its tough shi for them and they hould seek help

same as above