What will happen to reviews

[Mugsammy]

This whole thread began after a simple question was asked about the effect of the new legislation on the posting of “reviews” but so far little of consequence has been said!

I believe I am correct in my belief that physical actions between escort and client are still legal in this country. Nor is there anything in the new legislation directed at “reviews” of interactions between provider and client. The only action that might be described in a review that could be deemed to have been criminal would be the actual public contact between the escort and client and I can't recall that ever being written about! In any case how could such contact be verified by anything written in a review?

Whatever is said or claimed in a “review” can not easily be verified as having actually taken place.

For any police force trying to verify, to a level that would stand up to scrutiny at trial in court, that anything reportedly written in a review had actually taken place would require an incalculable amount of time, IT resources and finances would have to be expended. Few forces have any of these!

I believe the police will use the easy, tried, and true way to police this new legislation - i.e. the STREET LEVEL STING.

It's easy, it's cheap and it makes the NEWS!

As in my long story of theft...my point is that "the government will initially spend whatever it takes to make a point." Once done then it will be up to the johns to hire lawyers and to challenge the law and the charges.

You can bet the government spent millions on research and then the process to implement the changes. They will try to flex their muscle...you can count on it.

They will not be looking for interactions on the net, eg. Reviews, to persue individuals.I'm sure they will look into the sites but that alone will not stick plus a very good chance it may not even be admissible as evidence in court. After all, it could be fictional!

So...write to your hearts content!

[Shyla Wild]

plus a very good chance it may not even be admissible as evidence in court.

I was waiting for someone to bring up this point. Facebook messages are inadmissible in court. Text messages are inadmissible unless you call your provider and get the entire record of your text messages since the beginning. Meaning not only is certain evidence inadmissible, but you also must know how to present evidence in court.

As such, if we got back to my orginal statement concerning budget and funding you can quickly see how reviews would be a waste of time for police. Watch. 1st you would have to secure a subpoena from the courts so you could get a hold of user IP addresses. Then you will have to form a link between an Internet user and a real person to prove this person is really the user that posted a review. Does anyone realize not only the money it will take to pull this off, but this project requires tons of manpower. Lastly, like everyone here has pointed out, the government will be trying to make arrests to show the bill is working right away. This type of sting (reviews) is going to be very time consuming. It is unlikely that not only will no one see charges regarding this, but also seeing any arrests within the timeframe the government is going to set to make this law visible.

Lastly, this opens up the government for lawsuits. Here is an interesting situation. Imagine that there are busts over reviews, and they arrest and charge guys that wrote reviews. Now...imagine DEFENSE lawyers proving fake reviews, proving that people talk shit on the net, and in the end the client walks free. Now imagine the worst case situation. The innocent client lost his job, marriage and life....could you imagine the lawsuit? Defamation is often hard to prove...but this would be a cakewalk.

[Rockheart]

Another point is cracking down on internet advertising will do nothing but drive escorts back to the street and other unsavoury methods.
The fact is over the last number of years most of the girls have moved from the street to the web.

In my mind the biggest problem that most people have with prostitution is hookers plying their trade in public.
If they ban advertising how else will girls get their face out there.

Is it ok to be hooking on twitter, facebook or other social media but not ok on an "escort" site?

The whole things wreaks of stupidity and ignorance.
People in gated communities trying to fix a problem that cannot be fixed, ever.

[Shyla Wild]

Another point is cracking down on internet advertising will do nothing but drive escorts back to the street and other unsavoury methods.
The fact is over the last number of years most of the girls have moved from the street to the web.

In my mind the biggest problem that most people have with prostitution is hookers plying their trade in public.
If they ban advertising how else will girls get their face out there.

Is it ok to be hooking on twitter, facebook or other social media but not ok on an "escort" site?

The whole things wreaks of stupidity and ignorance.
People in gated communities trying to fix a problem that cannot be fixed, ever.

This is cut from my latest interview with Peter Berton. We touch these exact points. Everything we say up to this point is purely guess work.

Does the implementation of Canada's new sex worker law
concern you? Will it affect your market?

That Law was a sad day. Instead of our government showing an avant-garde
way of thinking, they did nothing but re-pretzelled the old Law. The government
has wasted both taxpayers’ money and the time of everyone involved, and their
law is more unconstitutional than before.
I think to fully understand what I am about to say, you have to fully understand
what happened. The majority of Canadians have no issues with the legalization
of prostitution. I will try to explain what has happened without getting longwinded
or emotional as this is a great source of despair, when the people you hope will
protect you do nothing but let you down.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke

A group called “Sex professionals of Canada” or SPOC www.spoc.ca, heading by
3 former/present sex trade worker(s) challenged the Criminal Code of Canada
stating that the Laws concerning the sex trade were unconstitutional, a violation
of human rights and puts sex trade workers at danger. Last year on December 20, 2013, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in our favor and struck down three
laws regarding the sex trade. The Government was given one year to amend the
Criminal Code. Justice had prevailed or so it seemed…

Fast forward one year later; the Conservative Government has drafted Bill C-36.
The main idea behind this Bill is simple. Instead of the working girl being
charged and being the criminal, now the blame has shifted to the client. Clients
will now be charged for seeing working girls. Another change is that any sex
trade worker cannot advertise her services. As the conservatives hold a majority
in the House of Commons this Law will pass in December 2014, baring some
sort of legal magic.

I cannot even begin to describe my disgust with this situation. S OC issued on
their website a statement regarding Bill C-36:

POC's statement

ex Professionals of Canada is devastated by the proposed bill C-36 that has been put forward by the Conservative
Government of Canada on Wednesday, June 4, 2014.

This government has willfully and intentionally placed sex workers safety and lives in danger.

Keeping criminalization in place will continue the violence, stigma and social exclusion of sex workers.

All the laws that were struck down by the upreme Court of Canada as unconstitutional have been virtually re-instated
under the guise of 'protecting us'.

This new bill labels all of us as victims and labels all our clients as criminals.

It is deplorable what the Conservative government has done to sex workers.

This isn't over and we will continue to fight!


A client being a criminal is the new way of thinking and it’s illegal for an escort
advertise her services…we should make it equal and extend this way of thinking
to every industry to be fair. If you didn’t take care of your teeth, then you are the
criminal for seeing the dentist and the dentist should have the same rights and
not be able to advise their services. Funny the hypocrisy that goes on. This new
law should be classified as illegal and everyone involved in drafting it should be
charged with a violation of the Canadian Bill of Rights Section 7: The right to life,
liberty, and security of the person. They did nothing to protect and have done
nothing more than reworded the old law. Our government has failed us again. I
learnt a valuable lesson concerning Canadian olitics. The conservative
government does not protect our ways. Being conservative means that you fear
change and progress. This is not and never will be the type of government that
should run a country and this government has FOREVER lost my vote. I now
understand why there is no conservative government in Quebec.

Presently the government does nothing to stop prostitution. Unless human
trafficking/exploitation are involved, or unless you are hooking on the street; the
cops look away and cannot in general be bothered to waste taxpayers’ money on arrests. We live in a country that is very much in debt, yet instead of looking at
new sources of income to help with the tax burden in this country, they cut off
one of the most profitable markets: Sex. Licensing would be one of the ways our
government could not only control, but also make some money. Basically a work
permit or business license for escorts. Just about any escort would pay this.
Taxing incomes would also help the government. With licenses comes the fact
that you can no longer work without paying income tax. rostitution has been
around since the beginning and has been labeled “The World’s oldest
rofession”, isn’t time that we tax it instead of taking the “moral” high road?
Wasn’t alcohol illegal for the same moral reasons?

What does this all really mean? It means the government is actually going to
damage communities in Canada.

Why? Simple, all the efforts that the government and police have done over the
years, cleaning the hookers off the street will be for nothing. Without a place to
advertise, less successful and girls starting their careers will have no choice but
to return to the street.

How this affects me? Until the law passes, I have no idea. It is nothing more
than speculation on my part. What I do know is this, if I drop my advertising and
try to take a week off, my phone still rings none stop with calls from around the
world. I am not worried about these laws at all. I presently am a business owner
and pay taxes. A Canadian law means nothing in a global sense as there are
many other countries that I can travel to, and in the long run it is both Canadian
Taxpayers and the Canadian Government that suffer as others working the sex
trade will do exactly what I do and work elsewhere pulling money out of the
Canadian system. It costs more money to arrest, hold and bring a working girl to
trial than it does for the system to support escorting and earn tax dollars off it.

[Shyla Wild]

One other thing that I noticed Toban and Tia both touched on. Tia claims that the successful girls will continue to profit while newer or less successful will not. Toban claims they will most likely target high end girls.

i am going to have to agree with Tia here. If I drop my advertising my phone continues to ring... I am sure many of us have the same issue. Dropping my ad will not stop me. And targeting me or any other high end girl would be a waste of time as most of us are proactive and have already taken steps to avoid issues. The girls with money will just throw money at the problem and fix it. The others will not be so fortunate.

When Admin gets a cease and decest letter from the RCMP....then worry should set in....until then....status quo

[toban]

Whoa there, I have suggested it is the LOWER end girls that will be the first hit!

One other thing that I noticed Toban and Tia both touched on. Tia claims that the successful girls will continue to profit while newer or less successful will not. Toban claims they will most likely target high end girls.
- - - - - - - - - -

This must be an inadvertant typo Shyla because I can?t recall ever saying that high end girls will be targeted! In fact, several times I have suggested the opposite (see posts attached below) that it will be the lower end ?street level? girls who will be hit first because the resulting publicity is cheap and instantly available in the press.


Post 8

I can agree fully with Crag's point of view on this. After this legislation becomes legal I can not see it being used for much other than attempting to deal with street level operations much the same as is being done currently - - - - - - - - - - - -

Post 23

- - - - - - - - - - - I believe the police will use the easy, tried, and true way to police this new legislation - i.e. the STREET LEVEL STING.

It's easy, it's cheap and it makes the NEWS!

Post 25

With their limited resources I doubt very much that local police will be capable of doing much more than they already do, which is basically to harass the lower level girls who are vulnerable to such actions and hope that the resulting publicity will slow the traffic. - - - - - - - - - - -

[Shyla Wild]

This must be an inadvertant typo Shyla because I can?t recall ever saying that high end girls will be targeted! In fact, several times I have suggested the opposite (see posts attached below) that it will be the lower end ?street level? girls who will be hit first because the resulting publicity is cheap and instantly available in the press.


Post 8

Post 23

Post 25

I am so sorry...not a typo at all...I miss read something. I do apologize again.

I wanted just to point out that we really don't know who they will target, but the established girls will have an easier time due to the fact they can just throw money at the problem.

what effect will this have? How about this one.....does everyone remember when Craigslist banned escort ads? There was a crash.....but I have seen escorts on Craigslist to this day. Does Craiglist call the cops on those girl or file a report? No they just remove the ads.

[toban]

I was sure there had to have been a reason

I am so sorry...not a typo at all...I miss read something. I do apologize again. - - - - - - - - -

[wannatryit]

Look at the bright side. Perhaps they will learn something useful when they review the reviews. Mabey they will realize there is a market and its not nearly ad bad as they thought.?

[dom r]

All the laws that were struck down by the upreme Court of Canada as unconstitutional have been virtually re-instated under the guise of 'protecting us'.

Instead of the working girl being charged and being the criminal, now the blame has shifted to the client. Clients will now be charged for seeing working girls. Another change is that any sex
trade worker cannot advertise her services.

This new bill labels all of us as victims and labels all our clients as criminals. A client being a criminal is the new way of thinking and it’s illegal for an escort advertise her services…we should make it equal and extend this way of thinking to every industry to be fair.

Presently the government does nothing to stop prostitution, unless...

Sex. Licensing would be one of the ways our government could not only control, but also make some money. Basically a work permit or business license for escorts and income tax. Just about any escort would pay this.

I'll put my cd on pause as I type this, im actually listening to the song Pimp by The Tubes, hahahaha.

IF prostitution or escorting is legal then it should be legal for a person to pay for such a service because the service is legal, plain and simple.

The government wants to protect escorts or prostitutes from what? Being abused, harmed or catching a disease? SHOW THE STATISTICS. I bet statistics will show women married to men, or in relationships or date or meet a stranger from a bar are 100 or 1000 times more likely to be beaten, harmed or worse compared to escorts.

And what about diseases? Of all the escorts in Canada how many have a serious std or aids compared to men and women in a relationship or marriage or dating? Could the government be wrong about catching diseases and how serious the stds are? Maby if a million or a billion people spread them through decades,centuries, wouldnt each disease that is passed on through person to person, then that person passes it to another person, and so on up to 100th person,1000th, etc, wouldnt the disease be filtered somehow and therefore become very weakened where the disease is not serious at all? Like aids for example. In the 70's the affects of aids were serious, they died right away, is there any chance that aids became weakened through the decades?

Anyways, I think stds are just a big load of hype. Of all the escorts, shemales or females, who the F have std's or serious stds, I bet not many at all.They and the clients just need to get tested, like a home testing kit and if they caught a serious std then thats when they should quit or stop. I agree thats when it should become illegal ONLY if they have a serious std and continue buying/selling sex, but if they are std free AND CAN PROVE IT, then no one needs to be protected from that buyer or seller and it should be legal. I bet like 99.9999% of all escorts in Canada got NO serious stds. Wheres the proof that they may have serious stds instead of all the BS hype and crap? There is none. Its a shame if this law came into affect that 99.9999% of escorts or clients that are disease free have to be punished by the .0001% who have a serious std. The governments main concern is to protect the worker or the client, well those who are std free don't need protection except from the government themselves who stomp all over our rights and freedoms like the Isis.

[xoxJanexox]

As for reviews, I think that the government is smarter than wasting its resources in something that could be thrown away as some science fiction as reviews.

But let's comment briefly on the new laws. I visited recently Sweden and I talked face to face with 2 Swedish gg escorts. The whole principle upon which these laws are marketed is to prevent exploitation. Therefore, the government will focus initially on two things. First, running stings in street operations and web based operations. Second, it will make visits to girls with suspicious ads (party, 24/7, Asian style of ads). They will be more interested in gg escorts. I think that they will avoid established escorts at least initially at all costs. Remember that the ones who brought the challenge were prostitutes! Most established escorts have access to legal help, can afford to pay legal fees, they are open to their inner circles about their profession.

Back to Sweden, because currently they are interested mainly on maintaining prostitution law key. They target mainly ads which are suspicious of human trafficking (eastern European girls), run stings from time to time to prove they are doing something. Having said that, the market will change and those old days of seeing a special of 120/hr on BP are gone, because who ever succumb to this trick will be a proven fool.

[Philly88]

Some very good points being made in this thread, and better points than most on the GG review boards.

As far as charging someone based on a review in a forum, that's pretty darn extreme. There would be no solid case what so ever without catching the two parties in the act. No sane LE would just grab a review and try to chase it down and process through the courts. Can of worms would be big ass.

And when you make an arrangement with a reputable provider and you two meet at a hotel or at their residence, and there was no public meeting / discussion / planning, who's going to know and bust down some door to catch you with your cock in someone's mouth (or vise versa)? It's just not going to happen.

LE will enforce when a situation / location becomes a public nuisance and needs to be addressed due to public complaints. But proactively trying to figure out when a SP and a hobbyist text to meet, and do so behind private closed doors, is too much for any LE to do. How would they know? If you're calling a SP to your hotel, they can't bust down the door because someone came to your room. And if you go to a SP incall and it's their private residence, they need a search warrant to come in. Why would they be granted that to bust one dude? Remember, they won't go after the SP directly, so how will they get a search warrant?

All's cool, play safe, and be smart.

[Rockheart]

Some very good points being made in this thread, and better points than most on the GG review boards.

We are the smartest forum on the internet!

[Shyla Wild]

As for reviews, I think that the government is smarter than wasting its resources ....

hahahahaha...This is the Canadian Government we are talking about. They have a PhD in wasting tax payers money.

[Alexis]

Hotel Keepers Act..

LE will enforce when a situation / location becomes a public nuisance and needs to be addressed due to public complaints. But proactively trying to figure out when a SP and a hobbyist text to meet, and do so behind private closed doors, is too much for any LE to do. How would they know? If you're calling a SP to your hotel, they can't bust down the door because someone came to your room. And if you go to a SP incall and it's their private residence, they need a search warrant to come in. Why would they be granted that to bust one dude? Remember, they won't go after the SP directly, so how will they get a search warrant?

Under the Hotel Keeper's Act police in British Columbia do not need a warrant to enter a hotel room.. In Saskatchewan and Alberta where some hotels and cities are not nice to SP's I can see this being an issue..

I do believe that similar laws exist in every province as well..

Also during an ongoing investigation when police are performing surveillance and know that an illegal act is being perpetrated inside a private residence they do not need a warrant..

I can't see the police wasting time with reviews tho.. if they do hopefully they'll chase down and expose the fake reviews.. lol..

I would like to know how Calgary and Edmonton are going to handle escort licenses this year tho.. Are they going to issue and charge for a license so that a SP can have men preform an act that is now deemed illegal?? It seems to me by forcefully imposing a fee upon an SP who is under duress to comply is against the law from the way I read it.. Alberta's pimp government..