Bruce Jenner debuts her tgirl persona... Caitlyn for Vanity Fair

[Rockheart]

Your anger is surprising considering the forum you run, but there it is.

The media attention and reality TV might look bad to you, but it does infiltrate society and get just a few more people to be "used to" transgenders. People hate change and things they are not used to, that is human nature. For all of this, Jenner does help to some degree because there will be more people who will not turn their head in anger or disgust because they are being exposed to this and saying "hey, this isn't so bad".

as for the award not being deserving over military soldiers. You could take any award and say "well, this guy lost his legs it is a disgrace he didn't win". The arthur ashe award is not a military award and that is not what it was created for. We can't throw every award winner under the bus because we can find someone who suffered more or achieved more. Let the award serve it's purpose.

Whether you like it or not, it is not easy no matter how much money you have , to come out after 40 years and say you are a woman. Especially when every move right down to the minute could be potentially observed by some media because your ex wife and step daughters decided to make their lives a full time reality show. Caitlyn has been part of that for so long that she is just running with the ball and making her own show. Again, it gets just a few more people to accept trans and get used to this in society, then it is worth it. You don't have to watch it you know.

That's all I got to say, but Crag sometimes your anger and aggression is hard to understand.

Who says I am angry, i just think it is a joke.
Also i say what I think, I don't feel muzzled like other guys.
Who is going to say I don't respect transgenders or are a homophob.
Also i like to argue the counterpoint on these issues because most other will not.

I can respect transgenders and still hate this fraud.
(However i run escort and porn sites essentially, not transgender support sites.)

I have lived my life with real transgenders.
This is not a real Transgender.
Didn't you read what i said?

I would actually say more people over 40 come out than under these days.
Usually by this time your life kids are gone or they are divorced, possibly they have money from working.
As your testosterone wanes you feel more feminine with feelings to match.
If you ever had these feelings they will be multiplied.

To transition when you are younger is much harder.
People who make this choice early in life are the ones that feel they cannot live as a man.
When you are 40 or 50 or 60 you have lived your life as a man, often it is just a trying the other side, or a bucket list thing.
In my experience the whole ideas is they cannot bear to live as man anymore.
As long as he was a famous man and women were hanging off his dick everything was fine, but he was not famous anymore.
Now he is very famous again and he is keeping his cock because he still likes women hanging off his dick.

This just makes me sick to my stomach.
Where is the glamour and recognition for everyone else?
Not just this hollywood freak show.

[candyhilton]

I love Caitlyn's new look, very glam

shes deff an 'it' girl now with her own show coming out this month

and shes spreading the word of support and not making it all about 'me me me' which is the most important thing of all

[TSFantasia]

So why is she so much more courageous than all the TG athletes that came before?
Are they all less worthy?
Only one reason she won this award.

Television Ratings.

There is no other reason, she may have been an athlete but is not one anymore.
Almost nothing of what she has done has to do with sport.
This other person was handicapped serving their country and fought through it to be a great athlete currently.

Caitlynn just hangs with the Kardashians and tries to look marvelous for the media.
She's is not trying to manage any type of career because becoming a woman is really her career now.
What is her message, become TG and live a marvelous and glamourous life, you don't even need a job.
Everyone will think you are wonderful and fall at your feet.

Not only will this lead people to make bad decisions, it will spawn a whole generation of copycats and wannabes.
The Social safety net and health will suffer overall because of the strain on the system.
This is considered a medical condition that cannot really be proven. In the past why would anyone fake it or want to go through this, but now it looks like a summer vacation. She doesn't represent anything but Hollywood excess.

It is one thing to have strong feelings and go through with this, but now every guy that has the slightest feminine feelings will think they need a sex change or to live as a woman. You can live as a woman without having to go through the whole process but there is pressure to do it all or you are not valid.

In my mind we are all part male and part female, just balanced differently.
The need for everyone to radically change themselves in not necessary.

Who the hell asked her to be the spokes person for transgenders.
Wouldn't the community pick someone a little more down to earth if they there was one?

Seriously.

Well I'm just saying I'm happy that the spotlight is on transgender issues and rights not saying there are not better examples to be found. The transgender community would not have been conferred with in this decision anyways. Laverne Cox was the first transgender woman to grace the cover of Time magazine and perhaps Janet Mock would have been a better choice. There are always other choices someone has to win or be chosen while others are passed over. And yes I'm sure television ratings & circulation and sales always plays into these decisions .
I also don't agree with people who say they have gender dysphoria and "I am a woman but I am keeping my cock cuz I like to fuck women". If you're a woman then you will be a lesbian and have sex as a lesbian if your attraction is to women.

Anyways the Internet Meme implying that a war amputee was passed over is untrue anyways.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/stephaniemcn...lyn#.fgvQ7PW3W

[Shyla Wild]

I'll tell you my problem with this entire fiasco. Jenner has no idea what being Transsexual is all about. Jenner has not and does not understand the hardship of a transition and what it truly means.

Last year, Katie Couric on national TV attempted to talk to Carmen Carrera and Laverne Cox about their privates. Both girls were about to defend the transsexual community and explain that it was inappropriate to talk about such things.

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/07/lave...gender_people/

What would Jenner have said in the same situation? A complete mess as Jenner has not gone through any of the hardships we go through. How can Jenner be a spokesmodel for our community when Jenner doesn't even know what hardships the community faces? Discrimination? Jenner will Minor discrimination due to the media coverage and protection.

[LOLA_]

I totally agree with you

Living in an open minded country like USA , and 65 years waiting , that tears are joke

There is chick with a dick ( real transsexual )
and also there is guy with breasts ( who just bored his look )

Human brain final development at age 25
I don't see any one is woman after 25 , I am sorry I do not accept them and will ever see them a transgender who dies to be opposite sex , people do comment about Genner they have to look mirror and see themselves too, it doesnt matter he is 65 , to me its the same level of someone changed over 25 years old of age



my words are not for specific person, even some of my words are harsh for some people , sorry , I don't give a fuck, telling the truth ... I can accept them as a friend , love them , But I still see them someone bored his sexuality , want money, more sex, and wanted to change

but I can't really accept them as a woman bottom of my heart.


The country that I was born wasn't so friendly with colourful people like me, still fought and won. Thats not easy to be woman, as Shyla said Its meaningful being a woman and its difficult road.

My teacher sent me to therapist age 12 , I hide it from family and school paid the therapist for me, and all i get They want me leave as a boy or i will end up on the streets , even fucking therapist wasn't helpful at all .

I found my way age 15-17 using illegal hormones and dressed up every summer run away from home and worked for vacation benefits , was begging 50 years old guys to pay my SRS and i marry them, It was just an exit door for me, just do your pussy and run from him. No one care about my sexuality , they all wanted to use me , I was only 13-14 run away from home twice and police were bringing me back to my family. I knew I wasn't a boy very little age of my youth .

I kept the cock because these days having shecock is a fashion , I thought my self how to top guys , till I changed I never ever let any one touched my shecock ,because I was ashamed with it ,
and now some people things " Cait is woman "
I have more respect people who had their SRS , Lola

Who says I am angry, i just think it is a joke.
Also i say what I think, I don't feel muzzled like other guys.
Who is going to say I don't respect transgenders or are a homophob.
Also i like to argue the counterpoint on these issues because most other will not.

I can respect transgenders and still hate this fraud.
(However i run escort and porn sites essentially, not transgender support sites.)

I have lived my life with real transgenders.
This is not a real Transgender.
Didn't you read what i said?

I would actually say more people over 40 come out than under these days.
Usually by this time your life kids are gone or they are divorced, possibly they have money from working.
As your testosterone wanes you feel more feminine with feelings to match.
If you ever had these feelings they will be multiplied.

To transition when you are younger is much harder.
People who make this choice early in life are the ones that feel they cannot live as a man.
When you are 40 or 50 or 60 you have lived your life as a man, often it is just a trying the other side, or a bucket list thing.
In my experience the whole ideas is they cannot bear to live as man anymore.
As long as he was a famous man and women were hanging off his dick everything was fine, but he was not famous anymore.
Now he is very famous again and he is keeping his cock because he still likes women hanging off his dick.

This just makes me sick to my stomach.
Where is the glamour and recognition for everyone else?
Not just this hollywood freak show.

[TSFantasia]

I'll tell you my problem with this entire fiasco. Jenner has no idea what being Transsexual is all about. Jenner has not and does not understand the hardship of a transition and what it truly means.

Last year, Katie Couric on national TV attempted to talk to Carmen Carrera and Laverne Cox about their privates. Both girls were about to defend the transsexual community and explain that it was inappropriate to talk about such things.

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/07/lave...gender_people/

What would Jenner have said in the same situation? A complete mess as Jenner has not gone through any of the hardships we go through. How can Jenner be a spokesmodel for our community when Jenner doesn't even know what hardships the community faces? Discrimination? Jenner will Minor discrimination due to the media coverage and protection.

I don't think anyone in the transgender community is making Caitlyn a spokesperson or spokesmodel for us. She is simple someone who has celebrity status due to past sports achievements and uugggh reality tv shows, who is transitioning late in life and because of that has thrust the topic of transgender issues and rights into the spotlight. Just like when Jenna Talachova challenged her disqualification from the Miss Universe pageant because she was a trans woman. These are just individuals sharing their experiences and using their 15 minutes of fame to stand up for transgender people, rights, and issues,

Even my transition is not "typical" of most transgender women, who struggle to pay their transition costs but due to discrimination in the work force and rejection by family cannot advance their transition as quickly as those who have the wealth to do it. They rely on the system, which only gives them HRT and approval for SRS but only if they get it done at Brassard's clinic will they have all or any portion of it paid for. Trans women in Sask still have to put up all the money up front for their SRS and travel and then reimbursed 35% by Sask Health. Most of course do not have the extra 25G to do this.

I think Janet Mock is the best visible representative of the trans community thus far besides that we have a reality show star, an actress, a model/burlesque dancer, and a beauty pageant contestant. Most in the transgender community consider trans women in the sex industry as a blight and perpetuating the idea that we are just sexual fetish fantasy toys to be fucked but not taken seriously as women. So there you go

[Shyla Wild]

I don't think anyone in the transgender community is making Caitlyn a spokesperson or spokesmodel for us. She is simple someone who has celebrity status due to past sports achievements and uugggh reality tv shows, who is transitioning late in life and because of that has thrust the topic of transgender issues and rights into the spotlight. Just like when Jenna Talachova challenged her disqualification from the Miss Universe pageant because she was a trans woman. These are just individuals sharing their experiences and using their 15 minutes of fame to stand up for transgender people, rights, and issues,

Even my transition is not "typical" of most transgender women, who struggle to pay their transition costs but due to discrimination in the work force and rejection by family cannot advance their transition as quickly as those who have the wealth to do it. They rely on the system, which only gives them HRT and approval for SRS but only if they get it done at Brassard's clinic will they have all or any portion of it paid for. Trans women in Sask still have to put up all the money up front for their SRS and travel and then reimbursed 35% by Sask Health. Most of course do not have the extra 25G to do this.

I think Janet Mock is the best visible representative of the trans community thus far besides that we have a reality show star, an actress, a model/burlesque dancer, and a beauty pageant contestant. Most in the transgender community consider trans women in the sex industry as a blight and perpetuating the idea that we are just sexual fetish fantasy toys to be fucked but not taken seriously as women. So there you go

In Bruce Jenner's interview with Diane Sawyer Friday night, he explained that he identifies as a woman, and that he's beginning the process to transition from male to female. Listeners in the transgender community: how do you think Jenner did in presenting his story to the public? And how do you feel about his unofficial role as a spokesperson for transgender people? Give us a call, 212-433-9692 or leave a comment below.

http://www.wnyc.org/story/bruce-jenner-trans-spokesperson-who-i-am/

I have more if you like...

[cameeindos]

i guess my opinion here isn't as valid since i'm cisgendered, but in the UK recently there was a known boxing promoter who came out as trans:



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-li...boxing-4030910

and i'm sure there are others in other countries who have transitioned. Caitlyn is just the latest big name, and of course won't most likely be the last.

[vancouverman]

Jenner came out as a woman to her wife back in the mid 80s and explored hormone therapy in the late 80s..... she also did many facial surgeries to feminize the look. This was started before she married Kris Jenner and the ensuing reality tv stuff.

I don't see how people can say this just came up in the last couple of years to get attention on TV.

The reality TV shows were spear headed by Kris Jenner and her daughters, it was not anything run down by Caitlyn for attention whoring.

But, Caitlyn is part of reality TV thanks to Kris and the girls, so I don't see how this could have been done in private without any tv cameras or requests for interviews.

I really don't get the anger the TS community is showing here, I really don't get it. If anything, being all over the media will soften some American's hearts and help them "get used to " trans people in the community. It will be more of a positive than a negative in the drive for acceptance in the minds of the people.

And none of you know what she went through in the 70's and 80's with this, being a famous male sports star and having to hide this. It would not have been easy so I think it is short sighted to just jump and say she hasn't struggled.

And going on about how it is horrible she wants to keep her penis. Why? There are ladies out there that chose to keep them (heck, we have one of our regulars here, Alexis, that intends to do that), so why that is even a source of attack is hard to fathom. Isn't the whole point to let people be true to themselves, whatever that may be, and be free from scorn and attack?


Just never thought a place like this would be so hateful to another trans person. Her fame can actually help the cause by softening people's bigotry and bias, it will happen with some.

[Shyla Wild]

Jenner came out as a woman to her wife back in the mid 80s and explored hormone therapy in the late 80s..... she also did many facial surgeries to feminize the look. This was started before she married Kris Jenner and the ensuing reality tv stuff.

I don't see how people can say this just came up in the last couple of years to get attention on TV.

The reality TV shows were spear headed by Kris Jenner and her daughters, it was not anything run down by Caitlyn for attention whoring.

But, Caitlyn is part of reality TV thanks to Kris and the girls, so I don't see how this could have been done in private without any tv cameras or requests for interviews.

I really don't get the anger the TS community is showing here, I really don't get it. If anything, being all over the media will soften some American's hearts and help them "get used to " trans people in the community. It will be more of a positive than a negative in the drive for acceptance in the minds of the people.

And none of you know what she went through in the 70's and 80's with this, being a famous male sports star and having to hide this. It would not have been easy so I think it is short sighted to just jump and say she hasn't struggled.

And going on about how it is horrible she wants to keep her penis. Why? There are ladies out there that chose to keep them (heck, we have one of our regulars here, Alexis, that intends to do that), so why that is even a source of attack is hard to fathom. Isn't the whole point to let people be true to themselves, whatever that may be, and be free from scorn and attack?


Just never thought a place like this would be so hateful to another trans person. Her fame can actually help the cause by softening people's bigotry and bias, it will happen with some.

And her fame could also hurt the community. Jenner is not the first famous person to transition, but is the first to use her fame to spotlight her transition.

Two Words: Lana Wachowski

One of the writers and directors of a little Trilogy called The Matrix. Her brother co-wrote and directed it with her before her transtion. They directed Cloud Atlas together recently.

[TSFantasia]

Jenner came out as a woman to her wife back in the mid 80s and explored hormone therapy in the late 80s..... she also did many facial surgeries to feminize the look. This was started before she married Kris Jenner and the ensuing reality tv stuff.

I don't see how people can say this just came up in the last couple of years to get attention on TV.

The reality TV shows were spear headed by Kris Jenner and her daughters, it was not anything run down by Caitlyn for attention whoring.

But, Caitlyn is part of reality TV thanks to Kris and the girls, so I don't see how this could have been done in private without any tv cameras or requests for interviews.

I really don't get the anger the TS community is showing here, I really don't get it. If anything, being all over the media will soften some American's hearts and help them "get used to " trans people in the community. It will be more of a positive than a negative in the drive for acceptance in the minds of the people.

And none of you know what she went through in the 70's and 80's with this, being a famous male sports star and having to hide this. It would not have been easy so I think it is short sighted to just jump and say she hasn't struggled.

And going on about how it is horrible she wants to keep her penis. Why? There are ladies out there that chose to keep them (heck, we have one of our regulars here, Alexis, that intends to do that), so why that is even a source of attack is hard to fathom. Isn't the whole point to let people be true to themselves, whatever that may be, and be free from scorn and attack?


Just never thought a place like this would be so hateful to another trans person. Her fame can actually help the cause by softening people's bigotry and bias, it will happen with some.

I support Caitlyn as a member of the transgender community that includes crossdressers/transvestites, intersexed, gender fluid and other gender non-conforming individuals and trans men/trans women. Caitlyn hasn't said she's not getting SRS only that is not an immediate concern. She would have to live at least one year full time in her gender before she would ever get approval letters from a therapist for SRS. Her age may also play into it as at 65+ the risks are much higher for any major surgery for complications.

There is nothing horrible about any transgender person keeping their birth genitals if they so choose. They are just not in the same category as those who complete their transition they are transvestites they may live and present themselves as the opposite gender to their birth sex but generally have no intention of actually becoming that gender. It's a valid category of the transgender community and it's more a reaction to the term "transvestite" that they object to. Oh well I may object to being a "transsexual" but that's what I am I changed my sex to the gender I identify with through SRS.

But every one wants the full recognition and respect of being called a woman even when they haven't gone though any of the struggles or sacrifices to become one. And of course even when we do there will always be those who will still object to our "womanhood" and being "female" because of how we began life. It can be like a woman who was a morbidly obese 300 lbs going through the effort through diet, exercise, even surgery to become a swim suit model bombshell and people still saying "Oh yeah but she's fat, she used to be fat, she will always be fat!"

Any transgender person can now change their name to a suitable name for their gender identity and the criteria for changing your gender marker is no longer completing SRS in most provinces and some States. It's just a letter from therapists that you have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria and are living consistently in the gender they identify with. This is good but when someone tries to say that their penis is their "female genitalia" then that's kind of stretching into delusional territory. People who transition view themselves born in the wrong body and with the wrong genitalia. Transitioning and SRS is our way of correcting this to the extent that medical science allows us to at this point in history.

[Alexis]

LMAO.. You're kidding me..

Just never thought a place like this would be so hateful to another trans person. Her fame can actually help the cause by softening people's bigotry and bias, it will happen with some.

Well you see most TS are a little weird up in the head..

You get all types.. those that hate their male genitalia and those that use it for 10 years or more to make a living by fucking men in the ass with their cock claiming to be a total woman and others that go for SRS and then say anyone who wants to keep their dick is not a woman & living a fantasy..

Then they totally discriminate against one another, say hateful things and mock others & play hateful games.. for what? self gratification? or perhaps deep insecurity..

I personally don't give a fuck about who is what and what they want to be.. but when people say discriminatory and possibly shameful things to elevate themselves above others it makes me take notice.. it shows me who is a good person and who is not..

Fortunately I don't buy into the insults or the bullshit that comes from my main haters that are well known TS women.. I feel so sorry that they cannot find inner happiness and resort to being so hateful towards others..

I do fear tho that Jenner may increase the divide in society rather than helping the cause if she's not careful.. It's certainly caused a divide among the trans community.. there's no doubt at all that she's trans.. but there is a question of whether or not she has all her cards..

My birth certificate says female.. so does my DL, passport and every other document I have.. that's all I need.. I'm happy to be me..

[LOLA_]

I did not give any feedback to any specific name , I talked about how people can think I am okay I have boobs and I am trans, no sorry you are UNCLE BOO, I ve seen many Bruce Jenner around and they want to included them selves that I did not even talk about them , because I forgot about them while I was writing, I am appreciate for reminding me your self and showing that you are Jenner type of transformer


Being trans is a sickness comes from youth and you have to fix as soon possible , fuck this old frogs , dear Jenner and his folks have left the most 10-20 fucking more years on the earth, when I wasn't even in the world , you were caring your pregnant wife around, trying to find trans woman to be fucked by her and chasing woman... h
hello, don't call your fucking self trans woman Bruce Jenner and his folks , its insult to me and my fellows


Honesty kills

[vancouverman]

I personally don't give a fuck about who is what and what they want to be.. but when people say discriminatory and possibly shameful things to elevate themselves above others it makes me take notice.. it shows me who is a good person and who is not..

What I am struggling to understand is why trans women are attacking Caitlyn as a fraud because she has decided to keep her penis (there are several angles, but this is one I have heard often). I thought one of the foundations of trans gendered rights was to acknowledge and respect who they are and what gender they identify with, not what the genitalia are between their legs. Isn't the point to respect these people and not determine their gender based solely on what genitals they have; and also to accept all the combinations and permutations out there in relation to gender identity and who they are sexually attracted to (same sex, different sex, whatever it may be).

To say, for example, "You are a woman therefore you must get a vagina and be attracted to men"... isn't that just trying to shove Caitlyn in the very box that the community is fighting society to get away from?

I get people hating reality TV stars and all that, but there is evidence this process began long before Kris Jenner and her daughters started their TV shows. If anything Caitlyn's biggest mistake was trying to fit back into a box and getting married again; and getting married to a woman who found great ambition in getting her family on television.

I just think some of these anti-Jenner arguments don't hold up to scrutiny.

[LOLA_]

Marvel comics girls

somehow agree with you too,

we don't insult him, we are telling the truth and I am exited to see his reality show. It will really help transgenders , because he will wash people's brain and would make people believe its okay to change .. Lana was before than him and I have more respect she was quite about her change and continue do good things, what Jenner does, showing how to polish your broken nail with those beautiful feminine young hands

I am upset because he had money to change that fast , what about those girls had to work hard in sex industry to fix them selves , its not fair , Jenner got jealous of his own daughters what a shame

and honestly I want he keeps his cock , its good people would accept more pre up trans as well as much as post up

People are fucking ungrateful .The funny part I am the girl who protect any of my friends and not shame to walk with someone who really looks like a man, because the person is my friend , but been called hater because I wanted to be honest what I am thinking of. Its my opinion you can't wash my brain.

And not only trans women are insulting him, check his twitter see the commends
I would fuck Bruce Jenner if there is good amount on the table " isn't that right? "

What I am struggling to understand is why trans women are attacking Caitlyn as a fraud because she has decided to keep her penis (there are several angles, but this is one I have heard often). I thought one of the foundations of trans gendered rights was to acknowledge and respect who they are and what gender they identify with, not what the genitalia are between their legs. Isn't the point to respect these people and not determine their gender based solely on what genitals they have; and also to accept all the combinations and permutations out there in relation to gender identity and who they are sexually attracted to (same sex, different sex, whatever it may be).

To say, for example, "You are a woman therefore you must get a vagina and be attracted to men"... isn't that just trying to shove Caitlyn in the very box that the community is fighting society to get away from?

I get people hating reality TV stars and all that, but there is evidence this process began long before Kris Jenner and her daughters started their TV shows. If anything Caitlyn's biggest mistake was trying to fit back into a box and getting married again; and getting married to a woman who found great ambition in getting her family on television.

I just think some of these anti-Jenner arguments don't hold up to scrutiny.