Update on Anti-Prostitution Laws

[dom r]

They should bring up the issue of fairness when defending prostitution in a court of law. You get a woman or shemale who is far more beautiful,young and sensuous than a man, the sexual transaction between the two can never be equal thus the man would always be in debt to her even if he makes the more prettier one cum too.

hahahaha....where do you come up with this stuff??

I thought of it and it really makes sense. Someone or even an organisation trying to legalise prostitution should use this as a defense in regards to this fairness issue. Laws are often changed based on what is fair and what is not.

By the way, you're looking pretty Shyla.

[Shyla Wild]

They should bring up the issue of fairness when defending prostitution in a court of law. You get a woman or shemale who is far more beautiful,young and sensuous than a man, the sexual transaction between the two can never be equal thus the man would always be in debt to her even if he makes the more prettier one cum too.

Is Justice not blind? Beauty is null and void here.

I thought of it and it really makes sense. Someone or even an organisation trying to legalise prostitution should use this as a defense in regards to this fairness issue. Laws are often changed based on what is fair and what is not.

Fairness? Justice? Lady Justice was raped along time ago, and we did nothing about it.

By the way, you're looking pretty Shyla.

Thank you so much for the sweet compliment.

[Mr. Sinister]

I just found out that Taiwan has legalized prostitution. They have decided to set up special red light districts for prostitutes. I wish there were more English speaking nations, especially Canada, that would legalize prostitution fully. I live in the puritanical USA. I would love to cross the border to the Canadian side and see an escort without worrying about being arrested.

When will there be a legal decision on prostitution in Ontario? Why is it taking so long? 2011 is almost over and no decision seems forthcoming.

[Shyla Wild]

When will there be a legal decision on prostitution in Ontario?

A legal decision was taken:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/judge-decriminalizes-prostitution-in-ontario-but-ottawa-mulls-appeal/article1730433/

Ottawa, the Federal government is appealing the decision.

Why is it taking so long?

This is an appeal. These can take FOREVER. And the legal system is not the post office. Things move a little slower.

I would love to cross the border to the Canadian side and see an escort without worrying about being arrested.

And what is stopping you? The courts have already ruled and prostitution is in a "Test Period" in Ontario. You cannot be arrested presently until a ruling is made on the appeal.

Starting to seem like a good time to do some cross border shopping doesn`t it Sinister?

That brings another point on legalized prostitution. As Sinister pointed out, he would gladly cross the border and spend his American Dollars in Canada if it was legal.

BUT.....

If I am not mistaken, (and please correct me if I am wrong) but with a US passport, if you cross over the border and are caught doing something that is a crime in the states.....can you not still be arrested and charged once you re-enter the US?

[Mr. Sinister]

To Shyla,

Many Americans go to Amsterdam, Brazil, and Thailand and have sex with prostitutes. Why would the US government arrest someone for doing something that is legal in another country? US law only applies to those who are physically on American soil or on an American military base. International law does not prohibit prostitution. So, no I am not worried about being arrested by the US government for my actions in another country.

I have only been to Canada once, even though I am only about an 8 hour drive from Windsor, Ontario. My concern is if the Canadian police are as aggressive as the American police when it comes to prostitution. Are the Canadian law enforcement agencies aggressive towards prostitution like in the USA? I have heard that outcall prostitution is legal in Canada, but not incall. Is this true? Also, are my chances of being arrested in Canada fairly slim if I visit a girl at her incall location? I prefer to see girls at their incall locations. What happens if a guy is arrested for prostitution? In the USA, he is photographed and fingerprinted. Moreover, it is public record if a man is arrested for prostitution in the USA.

Any insights are greatly appreciated. I do hope one day that Canada will legalize prostitution.

[Shyla Wild]

To Shyla,

Many Americans go to Amsterdam, Brazil, and Thailand and have sex with prostitutes. Why would the US government arrest someone for doing something that is legal in another country? US law only applies to those who are physically on American soil or on an American military base. International law does not prohibit prostitution. So, no I am not worried about being arrested by the US government for my actions in another country.

I have only been to Canada once, even though I am only about an 8 hour drive from Windsor, Ontario. My concern is if the Canadian police are as aggressive as the American police when it comes to prostitution. Are the Canadian law enforcement agencies aggressive towards prostitution like in the USA? I have heard that outcall prostitution is legal in Canada, but not incall. Is this true? Also, are my chances of being arrested in Canada fairly slim if I visit a girl at her incall location? I prefer to see girls at their incall locations. What happens if a guy is arrested for prostitution? In the USA, he is photographed and fingerprinted. Moreover, it is public record if a man is arrested for prostitution in the USA.

Any insights are greatly appreciated. I do hope one day that Canada will legalize prostitution.

Thank you for the heads up on that. I also figured it would be a waste of time. With all the interior crime inside the US borders, I really doubted they would care about overseas prostitution. BUT I still do believe that one of those purity old school lawyers could twist that law and the Patriot Act together and create a total mess.

Now as for the real stuff....important stuff....stuff that could keep you out of jail.

This is the law:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/LOP/Re...m#criminalcode

In English:

1. No Whore Houses
2. No recruitment
3. No street Walkers
4. No international sex with underage Prostitutes
5. No Trafficking

THAT IS CANADIAN FEDERAL LAW.

So, read over section three which I believe I posted earlier in this thread. In theory, Call Girls are LEGAL. Now how to be sure. Due to Canadian Law, a police officer must always tell the truth. If you ask a person if they are a cop and they are, then the cop must identify themselves. So if you see a call girl, just ask her if she is a cop. She must answer truthfully or else it is entrapment. Also, the person you are speaking to on the phone may not be the person you meet. Make sure you ask the person you PAY.

The Bawdy House aka whore house is also a bit of an issue. If the call girl uses a place other then her home for calls, then the second location can be considered a "Bawdy House" as the Law States: Section 197(1) defines the relevant terms. “Common bawdy-house” means a place that is kept or occupied, or resorted to by one or more persons, for the purpose of prostitution or to practise acts of indecency. A Raid or a sting in this location and you are fucked. The Bawdy House Law is presently under appeal in Ontario and therefore you cannot be arrested for that either. Therefore, hotels are legal too.

Oh, and don`t stop your car to pick up a street girl. The streets are considered a "Public Place" You can be smacked with this:

s. 213(1) Every person who in a public place or in any place open to public view

1. stops or attempts to stop any motor vehicle,
2. impedes the free flow of pedestrian or vehicular traffic or ingress to or egress from premises adjacent to that place, or
3. stops or attempts to stop any person or in any manner communicates or attempts to communicate with any person for the purpose of engaging in prostitution or of obtaining the sexual services of a prostitute is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

My last words of advice.

God gave men two heads, but only enough blood to power one at a time. THEREFORE; when you are horny and ready to pay the girl....if you forget to ask, don`t blame me.

Enjoy shopping in Canada.

[Raging Bob]

[Datreebear]

... Due to Canadian Law, a police officer must always tell the truth. If you ask a person if they are a cop and they are, then the cop must identify themselves. So if you see a call girl, just ask her if she is a cop. She must answer truthfully or else it is entrapment.
...

Shyla, this one has me curious. I always thought that was a myth. On the face of it, if this were true, there is no way a police officer could (or even would due to the dangers of outing themselves to violent criminals) conduct undercover operations. If all a criminal has to do is ask then they would ask every new person they meet and that would be that.

Maybe the laws are slightly different when it comes to prostitution as opposed to other undercover operations. It seems you have devoted some time and energy into understanding these laws and you are obviously an intelligent person so it could very well be that I am wrong. If you could point me to the relevant sections of the criminal code or some case histories that support this I would be grateful. This is one case where I would be perfectly happy to be wrong.

[Shyla Wild]

Shyla, this one has me curious. I always thought that was a myth. On the face of it, if this were true, there is no way a police officer could (or even would due to the dangers of outing themselves to violent criminals) conduct undercover operations. If all a criminal has to do is ask then they would ask every new person they meet and that would be that.

Maybe the laws are slightly different when it comes to prostitution as opposed to other undercover operations. It seems you have devoted some time and energy into understanding these laws and you are obviously an intelligent person so it could very well be that I am wrong. If you could point me to the relevant sections of the criminal code or some case histories that support this I would be grateful. This is one case where I would be perfectly happy to be wrong.

Ok it`s a bit tricky and I failed to mention a couple of things.

I made the assumption that the John has no previous criminal record concerning prostitution. Most stings operations use recordings. A VERY simple line, "Are you a cop because I have never done this before and it`s entrapment?" A sting operation gives you means, motive and opportunity.

Entrapment is a legal defense -- like insanity or self-defense -- in which the defendant argues that police caused him/her to commit the crime. In other words, entrapment claims the police conceived the idea for the crime and provided the means, motive and or opportunity for the defendant to do the criminal act.

As for if a cop has to indentify themselves in a sting:

Answer...I was wrong.

The Law:
Undercover Police Officers

The majority of case law states that a police officer does not have to identify himself or herself if asked, ?Are you a cop?? or ?Are you undercover?? The police only have to identify themselves once they start an arrest. Also, a police officer IS allowed to sexually touch a prostitute if it is in fulfilment of the officer?s duty. So, if a prostitute asks a potential john to touch her sexually and he does, that does not guarantee that he is not a police officer.


So, it works like this. The cop will probably not book you and walk away as you are a ton of paperwork that is just going to walk anyways. BUT they will most likely get your name. Meaning there is a record that you screamed entrapment and the next time....they will book you.

Once again, I will be clear on a couple of things.

1. The line must be spoken as I stated
2. You cannot previously have a criminal record for prositution related offences
3. Entrapment is a get out of jail free card you cannot abuse it
4. Most Laws are suspended and under appeal in Ontario
5. Simple rule, we all know prostitution happens. Keep it out of plain sight and you`ll be fine. Therefore the call girls are the best option. Use well reviewed girls.

Ok it was more then a couple of things.

[Datreebear]

Shyla,

Thank you for the clarification. It may not be a fool-proof get out of jail free card in all cases but I can see how it would help you set up for an entrapment defense. With no prior record and using this statement it could be enough to convince the officer it is not worth going ahead with the case.

Of course your advice about using known call girls who have been well reviewed is spot on. The best way to avoid being arrested is to avoid situations where it is likely to happen.



One should always be aware of local laws and the attitude of police an prosecutors in applying those laws. Quite a few years ago (in Edmonton) they had a law that made it so the police could stop you if you even just talked to someone in a certain area of town. I found this out by accident one night when I asked a street walker what time it was (seriously - I didn't have a watch) and ended up in the back of a police car. I was just questioned and released but it was not a fun experience. I am sure if it had happened a second time I would have faced some sort of charge.

[toban]

. . . . . I have only been to canada once, even though i am only about an 8 hour drive from windsor, ontario. My concern is if the canadian police are as aggressive as the american police when it comes to prostitution. Are the canadian law enforcement agencies aggressive towards prostitution like in the usa?

in general mr. Sinister, i would say that the canadian authorities are definitely not aggressive at all compared to their us counterparts! When action is taken here it is usually in response to neighbouring citizen's nuisance complaints regarding street prostitutes or the operation of massage parlours offering "happy endings". As you are aware, outcall operations are totally legal here.

i have heard that outcall prostitution is legal in canada, but not incall. Is this true?

yes, but while prostitution is totally legal here, as shyla said earlier, there are provisions in the law to make incalls illegal. These restrictions on incall services make it illegal to provide a place to be used solely for the purpose of prostitution (common bawdy house, brothel, cat house, whorehouse etc). In reality though, even incall operations are allowed to operate without interference in some localities in canada, e.g. In toronto several well established incall operations have operated openly for years, even advertising their services in local media.

Outcall operations are completely legal though because whatever "service" is being provided is being done in the clients "home" even though at the time, it may be but a hotel room.

also, are my chances of being arrested in canada fairly slim if i visit a girl at her incall location? I prefer to see girls at their incall locations.

the chances of you being arrested while visiting a girl at her place are virtually non-existent in canada nor have i have never heard of such a thing happening! It could happen in a brothel though.

what happens if a guy is arrested for prostitution? In the usa, he is photographed and fingerprinted. Moreover, it is public record if a man is arrested for prostitution in the usa.

as you will be aware from my earlier reply (see post #41), like datreebear i was also arrested for speaking to a prostitute(undercover policewoman) on the street during a sting operation, taken to hq, charged and appeared in court but not fingerprinted nor photographed. This took place in a city, where all the names are published by all the news media! Had the paperwork not been"lost" i'd have had a criminal record and i'd have been named in the news, but the crime was not for prostitution, it was for "communcating in a public place".

any insights are greatly appreciated. I do hope one day that canada will legalize prostitution.

well sir, prostitution is legal (but with some idiosyncracies) and the chances of you running into trouble here are essentially nil provided that you stay away from girls on the street!

Check out the many great girls available here, pack your bags and hit the road to toronto! It's a bit further to drive than windsor but there's no comparison in the choice of ladies!

In case you have not yet found these sites, here's where to find the good stuff in toronto!!

https://www.shemalecanada.com/

http://toronto.nowtoronto.com/gyrobase/classifieds/results?category=158300

..

[Mr. Sinister]

Thank you to all the Canadians that answered my questions.

We have a lot of hardcore right wingers in the USA who want to impose their religious views on the good people of the United States. They want to outlaw abortion, claim gay marriage will bring about the end of the USA, and most certainly, will never allow prostitution to be legal. The Republicans/Right-Wingers in the USA want to tell you what you should do in your own private bedrooms even though they claim they believe in small government.

It is refreshing to find that the Canadian people don't want the government involved in their personal lives.

Keep the fight up for legal prostitution and God Bless Canada!

[dom r]

Thank you to all the Canadians that answered my questions.

We have a lot of hardcore right wingers in the USA who want to impose their religious views on the good people of the United States. They want to outlaw abortion, claim gay marriage will bring about the end of the USA, and most certainly, will never allow prostitution to be legal. The Republicans/Right-Wingers in the USA want to tell you what you should do in your own private bedrooms even though they claim they believe in small government.

It is refreshing to find that the Canadian people don't want the government involved in their personal lives.

Keep the fight up for legal prostitution!

Very well said...

Wheres the freedom people although I dont agree with abortion because that takes away the freedom of the new born.

If gov is so concerned about someone receiiving money for sexual services like i said before, gov should provide home disease/aids testing kits where they can find the results within seconds if possible