Question for all pre op tgirls

[F100]

I think maybe some of the T-girls (remember, they live the life 24/7) get tired of clients saying " Me ? Nope ! I'm not bi or gay ! Can I suck your cock" ? or "Nope ! I'm straight ! Can you fuck my ass with that big cock of yours ?" I expect it is frustrating for some of them. They have come to terms with who they are. When I walk through the gay village of a city, the men I see who appear to be very openly gay, do nothing for me. When I meet a T-girl, they have my full attention. I don't place a label on what or who I am. If someone else wants to - I really don't care. I really admire the T-girls who have decided how they want to live their lives and everyone else can kiss off.

[Crossover1]

I'm not going to say too much here. I did as was suggested to me and went internet surfing looking for definitions/information of bi-sexual and heterosexual sex. In particular I was looking for info pertaining to men/TG sex. I didn't bother with gay or homo because we all know without a doubt what they are.

All sites pretty much say the same thing. Translated into my own words (with same meaning): man/TG sex is considered "bi or gay," or maybe you're "pansexual?" Your category just depends if you're attracted to GG or not, or are only attracted to men. So, whether you top, bottom, suck them or they suck you, doesn't matter...pick your category, heterosexual is not one of your options. A man having "stepped out" and experimented a few times but then realizes "hey, this is not for me!" He's probably straight. If you're a man and a tranny chaser...you're not straight.

Labelling...is it really a label if it's categorically accurate and correct by definition? Why do some not look at themselves and accept the "label" that befits them? I simply see Fantasia sticking to her guns according to research and definition (now I'm gonna get called an ass-kisser, won't be the first time!). She's not making it up to suit her own thoughts or beliefs. That's why Fantasia can say she's bi-sexual...and I can say I'm straight.

In the short time I've been in this "New World" of TG, I've learned a lot. One of the things I've learned...as long as people refuse to accept...this will never end!

As much as I find labels a bore, I also find men unwilling to brand themselves as anything other than "straight" a similar kind of boring. Fantasia, as bitter as she sounds, maybe doesn't realize that what's she harping about has nothing to do with labels, but honesty. Sure it's tiresome that men identify themselves as straight while they slurp up she male porn and cruise trannies on craigslist, but it's equally tiresome when people force labels on them as the solution. The solution is honesty, not labels.

As George Carlin used to say "People refuse to be realistic."

At the same time, the beauty of life is when people leave boundaries behind and can be literally fluid based on circumstance. Last time I checked, when you go to The Hassle Free Clinic, they don't ask your sexual definition. They ask you what you've done! Hmm, perhaps it's because your sexual definition is meaningless, it's what holes you've taken or being taken in.

Comparing food labelling to sexual labels is just silly. It's like comparing a poem to a crane.

It's always funny and sad when transexual prostitutes condemn the men they see while happily collecting their money and moralizing about how the men are cheating and wrecking their relationships. The irony is a little overwhelming, LOL.

So too ironic is how hookers always seem to think they have a monopoly on honesty and virtue while they condemn their tricks for not coming out. Hmm, perhaps men don't come out because they don't want to destroy much of what they have because they like a little glamor dick on the side? The price can be very high. It would seem to me that we all have secrets and lies to some degree, and it's much more compassionate to practice acceptance UNTIL someone is ready to be brave and evolve.

Back to my original point, though: If you operate a little higher level, you can see sexuality as something magnificent that isn't limited to rubbing different genitals together. I've had a passionate love affair with a woman who happened to have a dick. I don't even like sucking dick that much, but I do love the mixing of masculine and feminine that a trans woman has, so i will suck her dick because it makes her happy (when it doesn't I don't). This is where labels are for the unimaginative.

The difference in my case is I don't have any hangups about being honest. I am open with my friends about my willingness to go into interesting relationships and situations. I would never call myself "straight." But that honesty took 20 years to get used to. Most people are terrified of the blowback from being honest. So they operate on the bullshit labels level, where everyone lies and people miss being elevated beyond their "parts." Your body is just your temporary form, but consciousness is formless, really. The best sex moves you right out of just genital pleasure into something much more holistic. That's where I want to go myself!

[Crossover1]

I think maybe some of the T-girls (remember, they live the life 24/7) get tired of clients saying " Me ? Nope ! I'm not bi or gay ! Can I suck your cock" ? or "Nope ! I'm straight ! Can you fuck my ass with that big cock of yours ?" I expect it is frustrating for some of them. They have come to terms with who they are.

You mean they have to come to terms with who they are becoming I'm not being a smartass, but think about what I'm alluding to. Many, many trans women are completely dishonest about who they currently are, but instead see themselves as something else. Hmm, sounds like the "straight" man who's not interested in being trapped in a "gay" or "bisexual" label. What's the difference? Both are worthy of kindness, softness and acceptance. From there what is true will emerge!!!!!!! Hooray!!! But slamming and moralizing will only make our true selves retreat.

Also: It may be frustrating for trans women, but if I'm making money off you, shouldn't I suck it up, so to speak? Double standard much?

The reason trans woman are so desired, especially now, is because they are a material meshing of masculine and feminine. I also have no interest in men, but the incredible softness and smooth bottoms and feminization process of taking a man and adding some feminine blush (so to speak) is really exciting. Why? Because it takes us into our true nature, which isn't form but an expression of our consciousness free of form. Our parts are fun, and take us into our senses, but true liberation comes when we transcend our senses.

[TSFantasia]

Acceptance, Recognition, and Healing

Crossover is correct is saying we are in the process of getting to who we want to be (women is all aspects) and that process began when we recognized and accepted who we were- trans women. For some that realization and acceptance came earlier and now thanks to the internet and the readily available information on the subject many trans women are transitioning shortly after puberty. For others of us it was years of struggle, depression, self-denial, self-loathing etc before we finally came to the realization and acceptance of who we are and began to transition.

I am not "bitter" as crossover suggests to be frustrated and dumbfounded at the amount of energy and mental gymnastics that guys will go through to defend their "straight,hetero" label at all costs. And as I said as far as escorting and clients go this denial is in our financial favor somewhat. If seeing TS women was more socially acceptable and guys could brag to their buddies about their hot t-girl escort encounter then all of our incomes would exploded exponentially! Just look at the number of female escorts compared t-girl escorts suggests market demand. Guys take longer to decide to see a t-girl compared to female escort because of the fear of getting caught with a TS.

But there are many trans women who are not escorts (ok lts call the hookers and prostitutes to make them feel bad) , who experience this same frustrating self-denial from the men who are attracted to them. Most of them just want a normal relationship that yes includes sex, but also companionship and socialization with family and friends.

And I'm not saying that attached guys have to "come out" if they are happy to keep their encounters with t-girls to the paid encounters. I think you would be happier if you did especially if you are in an unhappy, sexless relationship now.

[Crossover1]

Crossover is correct is saying we are in the process of getting to who we want to be (women is all aspects) and that process began when we recognized and accepted who we were- trans women.

And here we get to the nub of it. "Women in all aspects." Is this a state of mind, or a state of "parts" or both? Both of course, right?

The reason I am attracted to a cock on a trans woman and not a cock on a "man" is because context is everything. I may not even enjoy sucking a cock on a trans woman (in fact, it's kind of "meh" for me unless I'm in love with that person) but I enjoy the BEAUTY of the cock on an otherwise feminine body. It acts as a glorious form of "balance." I want that hot cream in my mouth as a celebration of that femininity, not as masculinity.

I consider myself a very attractive man. Since I've been a teen, I've been cruised by gay men, sometimes forcibly. NEVER once ever had I felt any impulse to act on it. But in the mid 90's I started to secretly look at ladyboy porn, and found myself having really aggressive orgasms thinking about them and looking at the pics. I also spent many years wearing my girlfriend's underwear and putting things in my asshole.

Still no interest in gay men. Just.Not.Interested. I never identified as "gay" or "straight" just a lover of the female form! The male form was dead to me; the female form the most glorious piece of living art ever created.

Tranny ass is shaved. Tits are added. Makeup. The more that the transexual spends hours envisioning herself as a "she" the more the traditional "straight" man is engaged.

Finally, some months ago when I went to Thailand, I just let it all out in a place where nobody cares, and on every corner at midnight is a hulking, masculine alpha male walking with a ladyboy.

Guess what I discovered? Some of it really did turn me on, and some of it.....really didn't. I couldn't have anticipated which did and which didn't, but fucking a ladyboy in the ass brought out a totally dominant part of me and the orgasm was as explosive as any pussy I've been in (and that's with a condom!). The ladyboy I was with HATED her cock, and wouldn't let me near it. Another one I was with loved having her dick sucked, and I really loved the feeling of her hot cum in mouth, and loved her fem panties, but in the end, I realized it was more the thrill of meeting my edge than actually liking to suck dick. Much like a woman who swallows for her men because she's emotionally attached to her, I found that I really liked this girl so much that I did something I normally wouldn't do because of my emotional attachment to her.

So in that respect, am I man? Or more woman?

Or maybe I have both in me, despite having a dick and a masculine body.

Don't sell yourself short is my message here. You can be anything you want to be, just like trans women. So many trans women apply the laws of physics when it comes to condemning a man (you're a tranny chaser, a faggot, yada yada) but forget them when someone points out they're "not really a woman." The double standards just pile up.

It's one thing to make categories to make life easier, but don't think it inspires honesty. In fact, it does the opposite: All definitions are a trap. I still love pussy more than is rational, but I love the hybrid energies and personality of tgirls. I hate having to choose, so why would I let anyone define me in any way and put me in a box. Unlike too many others--and here I will congratulate myself a bit--I have no problem being honest in the real world about my appetites. Funny enough, and not surprisingly, so many tough, football player types I know always seem to be extra fascinated by my ladyboy excursions in Thailand, but won't give on about it until I tell them indeed I've made love to them. Then the floodgates open lol

More than anything else, I am able to love someone in whatever form they come. This takes enormous discipline, and it doesn't mean I can love someone while also not being turned on by them or alternatively being incredibly turned on by someone while NOT loving them (hey, welcome to humanity) but I don't ever let someone's physical form stop me from seeing them in their own private rainbow, where they're everything they want to be.

[TSFantasia]

Genitalia Doesn't Equal Gender

Back to the starting question

The transgender movement's repetitive motto is that genitalia (penis vagina) does not equal gender. It equals biological sex "congratulations this baby has a vagina or penis......gender identity to be determined at a later date!"

Whether a trans woman chooses to remain non-op or go onto GRS/SRS is a personal choice and again does not alter her gender as she is already a woman. Gender identity is about emotions, thinking processes, personality, etc. It also has little to do with sexuality as trans women can be straight hetero, bisexual, gay/lesbian or asexual. For most trans women the extent of their transition is about being happy with the reflection in the mirror, being accepted in our gender, being referred to in female pronouns "she, her, miss, mam" and not male pronouns.

As social awareness and acceptance grows of trans women perhaps there will be more that opt for the non-op choice without feeling incomplete, a hybrid or a social oddity. For myself I look forward to that "completion" and experience of vaginal sex even if it comes with some limitations over a natural vagina.

[Shyla Wild]

Bingo!

I must say something at the risk of sounding superior: I find myself much more evolved than far too many of the trans women I meet. That's fine, I'm older, and have had 20 years of interesting life experiences that perhaps these girls haven't. But I chortle at how quickly and severely trans women categorize men to fit their own pet theories, which are all bullshit anyway. Pleasure is pleasure, and morality of categorization is for boring people.

As Carl Jung rightly pointed out, we are made of masculine and feminine characteristics. The equipment and techniques we use to get towards ecstasy and liberation is kind of irrelevant. And if your goal isn't pleasure and liberation, why bother having sex? I have a side of me which is incredibly dominant and another side of me horribly, tragically passive. OBVIOUSLY, one feeds the other. They are connected in pure form. The dance of opposites. How fun!

Many trans women condemn men that like cock, because of their own insecurities and fears. Yawn. Kids, in the end it's about aesthetics and pleasure, not what you're born with. A perfect example is "straight men" discovering their assholes, which is happening in the era we're in now. So much guilt and fear to be brushed aside, stoked by trans women who put men into their tiny, little boxes so they can sleep at night

I can tell you as a "straight" man, haha, whatever that is, that I've had anal orgasms that I'm almost certain would rival the female orgasm in all of its circular beauty. I've never had a cock in my ass, so which category do I fit for trans women? If you have a super model's finger in your ass when you come, rather than a hard cock, but you have the same orgasm, what does that make you?

The evolved person goes so far beyond that and sees people with their parts and beyond them. Both places. That's where you can get liberated. We are our parts, and we're not. Both things. I've had anal orgasms from a women's hand that would rival a women's circular, sustained orgasm any day. It's completely different than the straight ahead line of a regular cock orgasm. I don't sit there questioning if I'm "gay" or whatever. I just like that I can be feminine and male depending on the circumstance. Does this ability make me weak or strong?

Something to think about.

Very impressive....

[cameeindos]

hmmm.... I may get flames for this, but then it's not meant to offend.

I think as transgenderism is perhaps one of the last accepted prejudices in modern Western culture, I don't get why there is so much infighting in your community. I'm a cisgender male, so yeah, perhaps I don't need to comment or my opinion doesn't mean much, but then if you all fight amongst yourselves over who is "more trans" or "true trans" then isn't attention being directed from fighting your cause?

My own view is dysphoria maybe occurs in shades. Maybe non-ops are physically happy with just being "passable" or having a woman's body/boobs, etc. and don't need full SRS. Provided they look and act like a woman, and are perceived as such, this may be enough. Meh, maybe my view means shit as I'm not trans, but then I can in some sense see the "true trans" argument in that full SRS seems symbolic. Even still, maybe it is a matter of degree.

And per the OP's point, not all TSs are escorts. I'd say most are not, yet they may be non-op for reasons I and others in this thread have stated. If a TS is "passable" enough, then she could work in any industry/profession without people knowing she is trans, has a cock and wants to keep it. I seem to know a lot about this lol, but then I'm a psychology/anthropology buff and like to study people.

[cameeindos]

Back to the starting question

The transgender movement's repetitive motto is that genitalia (penis vagina) does not equal gender. It equals biological sex "congratulations this baby has a vagina or penis......gender identity to be determined at a later date!"

Whether a trans woman chooses to remain non-op or go onto GRS/SRS is a personal choice and again does not alter her gender as she is already a woman. Gender identity is about emotions, thinking processes, personality, etc. It also has little to do with sexuality as trans women can be straight hetero, bisexual, gay/lesbian or asexual. For most trans women the extent of their transition is about being happy with the reflection in the mirror, being accepted in our gender, being referred to in female pronouns "she, her, miss, mam" and not male pronouns.

As social awareness and acceptance grows of trans women perhaps there will be more that opt for the non-op choice without feeling incomplete, a hybrid or a social oddity. For myself I look forward to that "completion" and experience of vaginal sex even if it comes with some limitations over a natural vagina.

As said, you all lose if you infight!

[Crossover1]

For most trans women the extent of their transition is about being happy with the reflection in the mirror, being accepted in our gender, being referred to in female pronouns "she, her, miss, mam" and not male pronouns.

I just want to point out for the purposes of our argument that this completely contradicts your whole argument about the need for categories, and this gets to the heart of a double standard that too many trans women have for themselves vs. the men they see.

According to your "categories" argument, if you have a dick, you would be "male" otherwise all hell breaks out! But now you're saying that being a woman is in the head and not in the parts. So on the one hand you're happy to call me "bisexual" or whatever and tell me that without categorization society doesn't operate, but you're completely abrogating these very definitions when it comes to yourself and other trans women.

I only point this out because this is a fundamental double standard I see again and again with trans women. You want us to view you in the way that you choose, which is as a woman even if you have male parts, but you won't extend the same "fluidity" when describing us sexually. We're in denial! We're gay! We love sucking cock but tell ourselves we're straight! Liars, hypocrites, boundary jumpers!

We can all be more sympathetic in accepting each other as full human beings, rather than just parts or labels. AND amazingly enough, when we give each other more room to be free, we elevate our own freedom in the process!
We ALL have something to learn, not just the men, but the trans women as well.

[TSFantasia]

I just want to point out for the purposes of our argument that this completely contradicts your whole argument about the need for categories, and this gets to the heart of a double standard that too many trans women have for themselves vs. the men they see.

According to your "categories" argument, if you have a dick, you would be "male" otherwise all hell breaks out! But now you're saying that being a woman is in the head and not in the parts. So on the one hand you're happy to call me "bisexual" or whatever and tell me that without categorization society doesn't operate, but you're completely abrogating these very definitions when it comes to yourself and other trans women.

I only point this out because this is a fundamental double standard I see again and again with trans women. You want us to view you in the way that you choose, which is as a woman even if you have male parts, but you won't extend the same "fluidity" when describing us sexually. We're in denial! We're gay! We love sucking cock but tell ourselves we're straight! Liars, hypocrites, boundary jumpers!

We can all be more sympathetic in accepting each other as full human beings, rather than just parts or labels. AND amazingly enough, when we give each other more room to be free, we elevate our own freedom in the process!
We ALL have something to learn, not just the men, but the trans women as well.

I've only said along the sliding scale of human sexuality & sexual orientation where at one end is perfectly straight the other end perfectly homosexual and in the middle perfectly bisexual, that men engaged sexually with pre-op TSs have moved off the perfectly straight marker . Any derogatory terms that TS or TG women may use "gay, tranny chasers,pretend straight guys, etc" are as a result of the fact that they are not being approached as women by these guys that their only interest is in their male genitals period! It's the same as genetic women calling guys "pigs, dogs, players, etc" to refer to the intention of guys chasing them only being pussy and sex. It is a reaction by any woman trans or bio to being treated like garbage, like an object, like something less than a real person with thoughts and feelings.

If all these men were approaching us as women ie attraction to our looks & female attributes, engaging us as women and interest in forming relationships with us and then being ok and open-minded enough to accept the fact that we still have male genitals attached then we could buy into the whole these guys genuinely see us as women idea. However that is not the experience of most trans women. Perhaps this is one of the reasons that many do turn to escorting thinking/feeling that if that is the only thing guys are interested in from us then at least we are going to make money off this fetish lust/interest that these men have towards us.

I'm sure some of you men are the exception to the rule or experience of trans women in this area. And like any woman who has had 99 chasers, players, etc approach her before you, as the 1 out of a 100 sincere guy comes along, she is going to be jaded, skeptical and distrusting as to your motives and intentions. Winning her over may take some effort but will be worth it. This is why women develop "3 date" or "5 date", etc rules to filter out the players, chasers who are willing to say anything and even seem sincere but usually lose interest quickly if they are not immediately rewarded with sex as they really have NO interest with you as a person beyond that.

So in the long line of this debate and argument if the extent of a persons interest in TS women/T-Girls is in paid escort appts. or discreet sex hookups with TS women then yes the focus is SEX and so the focus of what I'm saying is on SEXUALITY.

[rider014]

The game of inches

It is truly amazing how four square inches of the human body ( the area, not the length and girth) can create such a fuss.

[cameeindos]

I've only said along the sliding scale of human sexuality & sexual orientation where at one end is perfectly straight the other end perfectly homosexual and in the middle perfectly bisexual, that men engaged sexually with pre-op TSs have moved off the perfectly straight marker . Any derogatory terms that TS or TG women may use "gay, tranny chasers,pretend straight guys, etc" are as a result of the fact that they are not being approached as women by these guys that their only interest is in their male genitals period! It's the same as genetic women calling guys "pigs, dogs, players, etc" to refer to the intention of guys chasing them only being pussy and sex. It is a reaction by any woman trans or bio to being treated like garbage, like an object, like something less than a real person with thoughts and feelings.

If all these men were approaching us as women ie attraction to our looks & female attributes, engaging us as women and interest in forming relationships with us and then being ok and open-minded enough to accept the fact that we still have male genitals attached then we could buy into the whole these guys genuinely see us as women idea. However that is not the experience of most trans women. Perhaps this is one of the reasons that many do turn to escorting thinking/feeling that if that is the only thing guys are interested in from us then at least we are going to make money off this fetish lust/interest that these men have towards us.

I'm sure some of you men are the exception to the rule or experience of trans women in this area. And like any woman who has had 99 chasers, players, etc approach her before you, as the 1 out of a 100 sincere guy comes along, she is going to be jaded, skeptical and distrusting as to your motives and intentions. Winning her over may take some effort but will be worth it. This is why women develop "3 date" or "5 date", etc rules to filter out the players, chasers who are willing to say anything and even seem sincere but usually lose interest quickly if they are not immediately rewarded with sex as they really have NO interest with you as a person beyond that.

So in the long line of this debate and argument if the extent of a persons interest in TS women/T-Girls is in paid escort appts. or discreet sex hookups with TS women then yes the focus is SEX and so the focus of what I'm saying is on SEXUALITY.

lol.. Well I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE (as the OP put it haha..) TSs since it's a grand sin to find female features sexually attractive. The cock is of course part of it, but then I'd have thought being sexually attracted to somebody is a boon/compliment, not an insult.

That said, I think a lot of guys are scared to date publicly TSs, or say they like them. I think it's largely on the Web that this is common. but then maybe men need to suck it up or toughen up and not give a shit, but if a person has a lot to lose by saying he likes TSs, then obviously it's a factor IMO. It's not like say Rosa Parks or Dr. King since they had nothing to lose and had many others around them in the same boat.

[TSFantasia]

lol.. Well I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE (as the OP put it haha..) TSs since it's a grand sin to find female features sexually attractive. The cock is of course part of it, but then I'd have thought being sexually attracted to somebody is a boon/compliment, not an insult.

That said, I think a lot of guys are scared to date publicly TSs, or say they like them. I think it's largely on the Web that this is common. but then maybe men need to suck it up or toughen up and not give a shit, but if a person has a lot to lose by saying he likes TSs, then obviously it's a factor IMO. It's not like say Rosa Parks or Dr. King since they had nothing to lose and had many others around them in the same boat.

Exactly if a person is attached/married and is happy to keep their t-girl experiences to paid and discreet encounters there is no need to "come out" and make any public statement about one's sexual preferences. And for those dating TS women there is no need either though makes it easier to have a relationship when your boyfriend is not trying to hide who you are to family & friends. And dreads the moment when it unintentional slips out (no pun intended.

[Crossover1]

I've only said along the sliding scale of human sexuality & sexual orientation where at one end is perfectly straight the other end perfectly homosexual and in the middle perfectly bisexual, that men engaged sexually with pre-op TSs have moved off the perfectly straight marker . Any derogatory terms that TS or TG women may use "gay, tranny chasers,pretend straight guys, etc" are as a result of the fact that they are not being approached as women by these guys that their only interest is in their male genitals period! It's the same as genetic women calling guys "pigs, dogs, players, etc" to refer to the intention of guys chasing them only being pussy and sex. It is a reaction by any woman trans or bio to being treated like garbage, like an object, like something less than a real person with thoughts and feelings.

If all these men were approaching us as women ie attraction to our looks & female attributes, engaging us as women and interest in forming relationships with us and then being ok and open-minded enough to accept the fact that we still have male genitals attached then we could buy into the whole these guys genuinely see us as women idea. However that is not the experience of most trans women. Perhaps this is one of the reasons that many do turn to escorting thinking/feeling that if that is the only thing guys are interested in from us then at least we are going to make money off this fetish lust/interest that these men have towards us.

I'm sure some of you men are the exception to the rule or experience of trans women in this area. And like any woman who has had 99 chasers, players, etc approach her before you, as the 1 out of a 100 sincere guy comes along, she is going to be jaded, skeptical and distrusting as to your motives and intentions. Winning her over may take some effort but will be worth it. This is why women develop "3 date" or "5 date", etc rules to filter out the players, chasers who are willing to say anything and even seem sincere but usually lose interest quickly if they are not immediately rewarded with sex as they really have NO interest with you as a person beyond that.

So in the long line of this debate and argument if the extent of a persons interest in TS women/T-Girls is in paid escort appts. or discreet sex hookups with TS women then yes the focus is SEX and so the focus of what I'm saying is on SEXUALITY.

It is a very unfortunate loop: Trans women need/want/decide to monetize men's fascination with them, and then complain no good guy wants to have a relationship with them. Can't really blame the trans, and can't really blame the men.

As for your theory that most men don't care about your femininity or feminine parts, I don't think you're correct. It's simply that men who go to a trans escort have probably never played with a cock before, and so your feminine parts are rather less interesting. Otherwise the men would just go on Craigslist and fuck a gay guy for free 24/7. Again I think you're not seeing the complex interaction of masculine and feminine characteristics that make trans women so irresistible. Most men who like trans women aren't interested in post op. Wonder why

An interesting trend has developed in Thailand where more and more ladyboys are deciding they like their cocks, and are keeping them. Yes some of that decision is based on popularity and money, but some of it is based on the maturation of the trans world there, where increased acceptance of ladyboys in the broader culture means they don't have to go post-op in order to "fit in" with society. A softer view of what it means to be a woman might mean having a cock and enjoying its pleasure but having other characteristics of being a woman.